Renegotiating notice period

mikedisd2

I currently have to give 4x weeks notice before leaving my current job. This is a problem because only contract jobs with an immediate start (with leeway) are being advertised. Anybody have ideas on how to negotiate a shorter notice period. The issue will be that just bringing it up with the manager will spark obvious suspicion about my intentions.

I've missed out on a lot of opportunities because of this and I need to improve my prospects.

Zartanasaurus

What are the contractual penalties for not giving a full 4 weeks notice?

earweed

The major consequence of not fulfilling the 4 week notice is you've burned a bridge and may not get a good referral.

Hyper-Me

Are there any laws or anything of that nature in austrialia which dictates mandatory notice periods?

I know some UK members said its like 3 months and sometimes longer in the UK depending on certain situations.

If its anything like the US, you don't have to give a notice if you don't want to. Its simply considered a courtesy and generally good form. I wouldnt waste a good future opportunity just because you are afraid of souring relations with your current boss (as im sure there are others you work with that can give worthwhile references as well)

Bl8ckr0uter

Unless it is in the contract you shouldn't have to do it. On my weekend job, I have to give at least a two week notice because it is in the contract (I make it my business to do that anyway) . On my weekday job I don't have one. I would still do it anyway as the world is small and people have long memories for stuff like that.

mikedisd2

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Are there any laws or anything of that nature in austrialia which dictates mandatory notice periods?

I know some UK members said its like 3 months and sometimes longer in the UK depending on certain situations.

When starting a job, we sign terms and conditions that state your rate, annual leave, overtime arrangements, etc., and leave notice period. I always thought the UK notice time was nuts.

My main concern is they say no and it becomes a huge mess. I may miss out on the new job and the manager then knows I'm trying to quit.

earweed wrote: »

The major consequence of not fulfilling the 4 week notice is you've burned a bridge and may not get a good referral.

This may not be an issue. I think I can still leave on good grounds if handled the correct way. Also, I've nearly always been at client sites so the manager has never seen my work. I came into his team through a merger and he never really invested any interest in my role. Hence, another reason for leaving.

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

What are the contractual penalties for not giving a full 4 weeks notice?

I don't think there are any; currently trying to dig up my contract to see what it actually states.

chmorin

What grounds are you on with your boss? If you bring up your wanting to move up in your trade he may be more considerate, as you are talking to him about what you want from a job rather than pretty much saying this job isn't what you want. It would give any manger worth his nuts to either move you up in your current job, or come to a compromise should you decide to leave. It's better to be up front about your intentions to the higher-ups, they had to work their way up there too so usually they are considerate to you doing the same and will sometimes help you.

Or they can be total jerks and want you to work like a dog. Let's hope for the first one.

mikedisd2

chmorin wrote: »

Or they can be total jerks and want you to work like a dog. Let's hope for the first one.

I have a good feeling he may be helpful. There's still a pay freeze at the moment and we talked about how this will result in losing workers. I think (hope) he'll understand that I may be one of those workers.

Having said that, I have to get another job first. There's an interview this arvo and the nerves are building up.

Employer: "What's your greatest weakness?"
ME: "Doing interviews."

colemic

I am kind of in the same boat - my company expects 90 days because of our location (but they asked me to give two weeks notice to my old employer)... I am actively looking stateside and I simply tell them that I have to give 30 days, simply due to the remoteness of this place. Had a couple of interviews that I have;t heard back from but both indicated that 30 days wouldn't be an issue. (It shouldn't since if they need someone so bad they shouldn't drag their feet so much!)

mikedisd2

Well, I did my interview and all went well. I made mention that I didn't want my notice period to be an issue, and I could negotiate a 2x week time. Got offered the job today on condition of the 2x week notice. Went to see my manager and stated how poor my workload is and that I've held out as long as possible but can no longer afford to work for what the company pays. He totally understood and said it was a good decision. He accepted 2x weeks; if HR are unhappy with this they'll take it out of my annual leave.

So finally, broken away. Moving to contract work means nearly double my hourly rate. New premises, private sector, heaps of work, back in the city (good) and working on a bigger enterprise level.

Hope to never look back.

nel

mikedisd2 wrote: »

When starting a job, we sign terms and conditions that state your rate, annual leave, overtime arrangements, etc., and leave notice period. I always thought the UK notice time was nuts.

Why do you think the UK times are crazy? it works both ways - so if you get put out of work at least you know you have X amount of time to do something about it, where likewise if an employee leaves then the company knows they have X time too. perfectly sensible in my opinion. In the UK these finer details are all stated within the contract which you signed joining the company. Typically its 4 weeks notice in the UK but many companies dictate 3 months for important positions such as architects, managers and so on.

What i would do is mention you would like to renegotiate your notice period within your resignation letter and have a chat with your manager stating this. If not, then save a little cash to help cover any transition then quit and go contracting. Them are the only 2 real options imo.

Good luck with it mate

Mojo_666

mikedisd2 wrote: »

Well, I did my interview and all went well. I made mention that I didn't want my notice period to be an issue, and I could negotiate a 2x week time. Got offered the job today on condition of the 2x week notice. Went to see my manager and stated how poor my workload is and that I've held out as long as possible but can no longer afford to work for what the company pays. He totally understood and said it was a good decision. He accepted 2x weeks; if HR are unhappy with this they'll take it out of my annual leave.

So finally, broken away. Moving to contract work means nearly double my hourly rate. New premises, private sector, heaps of work, back in the city (good) and working on a bigger enterprise level.

Hope to never look back.

Contracting is great and the money is so much better I am sure you won't look back.

earweed

My current job has a 30 day notice in the contract as well. It has penalties written into it that I may be "responsible" for any monetary damages incurred due to my leaving early. I'm currently an HDTV warranty repair tech and have a certain"assigned region". The monetary damages will most likely be the "extra" that an out of area tech would get for covering my area. Being as this job only pays monthly then I could possibly lose most, if not all, of my last months check.
I have an opportunity (interviewed already and waiting on decision) for a desktop support position and will take it if offered. They seemed to be saying at the time of the interview that they needed the people "right now" but they've dragged their feet for 3 weeks in making the choices for who gets hired. It's really frustrating having to wait and knowing I may lose money initially if I accept an offer.

powerfool

nel wrote: »

Why do you think the UK times are crazy? it works both ways - so if you get put out of work at least you know you have X amount of time to do something about it, where likewise if an employee leaves then the company knows they have X time too. perfectly sensible in my opinion. In the UK these finer details are all stated within the contract which you signed joining the company. Typically its 4 weeks notice in the UK but many companies dictate 3 months for important positions such as architects, managers and so on.

What i would do is mention you would like to renegotiate your notice period within your resignation letter and have a chat with your manager stating this. If not, then save a little cash to help cover any transition then quit and go contracting. Them are the only 2 real options imo.

Good luck with it mate

All of these formalities also make the hiring process take longer in the UK, and it makes an employer a bit more timid to hire someone if they are on the hook to keep them around longer than they wish. We had this issue in our UK office where someone was not working out and no one in that office wanted to do anything about it. It really wrecked my productivity as the person was a "junior admin" for me and just wouldn't get any of the work done.

earweed

powerfool wrote: »

All of these formalities also make the hiring process take longer in the UK, and it makes an employer a bit more timid to hire someone if they are on the hook to keep them around longer than they wish. We had this issue in our UK office where someone was not working out and no one in that office wanted to do anything about it. It really wrecked my productivity as the person was a "junior admin" for me and just wouldn't get any of the work done.

????
Does the contract have stipulations about how a person would be fired? Is there a notice for that required also?
Or is it just that incompetence or not fulfilling job requirements is not cause for firing.

nel

powerfool wrote: »

All of these formalities also make the hiring process take longer in the UK, and it makes an employer a bit more timid to hire someone if they are on the hook to keep them around longer than they wish. We had this issue in our UK office where someone was not working out and no one in that office wanted to do anything about it. It really wrecked my productivity as the person was a "junior admin" for me and just wouldn't get any of the work done.

im not quite sure what you are getting at here? what does poor management of an employee not pulling his weight have to do with a notice period or other formalities?

Just out of interest, how long does it take for the average post in your country? im not talking about contract roles but rather perm positions?

powerfool

earweed wrote: »

????
Does the contract have stipulations about how a person would be fired? Is there a notice for that required also?
Or is it just that incompetence or not fulfilling job requirements is not cause for firing.

To be honest, this has been more than five years ago. I do not have any information on the contract itself, as I was not involved in it. It is just that these formalities have unintended consequences. On the surface, the contract seems like a good thing for both parties, but when it becomes the norm and the expectation, it creates a cultural shift the can have a negative impact on productivity and can create a burden on all parties.

It is really more of a philosophical thing.

laidbackfreak

earweed wrote: »

????
Does the contract have stipulations about how a person would be fired? Is there a notice for that required also?
Or is it just that incompetence or not fulfilling job requirements is not cause for firing.

Yep we (in the UK) have quite a complex system in order to fire someone. Outside of Gross misconduct typically its a combination of verbal warnings then 2-3 written warnings before you can fire them. You have to give them sufficient time in between to show improvement etc before you can move onto the next stage too, so it's by no means easy or quick

Public sector places are an even bigger nightmare altogether typically if someone is poor in that enviroment they end up getting shifted typically upwards lol

erpadmin

laidbackfreak wrote: »

Yep we have quite a complex system in order to fire someone. Outside of Gross misconduct typically its a combination of verbal warnings then 2-3 written warnings before you can fire them. You have to give them sufficient time in between to show improvement etc before you can move onto the next stage too, so it's by no means easy or quick

Public sector places are an even bigger nightmare altogether typically if someone is poor in that enviroment they end up getting shifted typically upwards lol

+1

What you are describing is called progressive discipline. I'm in the public sector, but I assure you, I am not one of those employees you speak of, and my boss when I first got here had to deal with getting rid of someone. Because the guy was a moron, she got her wish, and this was after he exhausted the union and his own resources (hired his own lawyer).

Outside of state employment, NJ is a "at-will" state. Basically, unless you got union protection that allows for the progressive discipline that you speak of, the boss can fire you for any reason. Mind you, there are still some stuff that has to happen before you are just let go so that the CYA principle is applied, but at-will states are the best for management.

powerfool

nel wrote: »

im not quite sure what you are getting at here? what does poor management of an employee not pulling his weight have to do with a notice period or other formalities?

Poor management, in this situation, is a result of mental paralysis created by the cultural change that has happened related to all of the formalities.

Just out of interest, how long does it take for the average post in your country? im not talking about contract roles but rather perm positions?

I my country, the US, permanent positions can come as quickly as contract roles (i.e. immediately). In this situation, it is at the discretion of the hiring company how quickly they will move. They can offer you a job and begin working immediately after you accept. Usually there is a little gap just from negotiating a start date between both parties that is suitable. In addition, we typically do adhere to a two-weeks notice, but that is out of courtesy.