School Mistakes

PentaCube

Hey all. This is obviously my first post here. I have lurked for a while though. My current situation has got me so depressed and anxious that I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I am one class away from my associates at a private college here in michigan and will have my bachelors in about a year and a half. I plan on collecting certs to help as well, starting with A+, N+, and S+. I have about 6 months combined experience at 2 internships i have been through.

I feel like I have made some big mistakes by changing my major from a programming focuses degree to a network security degree, which has put me a good year behind my peers. The way the classes are set up and the economy in this area I had to depend on student loans to get my degree. It will cost me about 60k in loans to get my bachelors. I am 23 years old and I already feel my life is ruined. I understand all my options as far as my student loan repayment goes.

Has anyone else had this sort of experience? Was this even remotely the proper path? Any advice would be great. Please don't take this as a sob story, I am just hoping for some thoughts.

stuh84

I did a degree in Music Technology, and now I'm a Network Engineer. You get out of life what you put in, so if you knuckle down, make the right people notice you, and work your ass off, you'll get there.

dynamik

I think your only problem is your perspective.

1. Don't create artificial comparisons to your peers. Would you rather graduate a year earlier with a degree that isn't the one you wanted?
2. I believe the last statistic I saw was that students change their majors an average of three times. Why are you racked with guilt over changing it once?
3. $60k is neither that much for a private education nor is it life-crippling debt (especially when its in the form of student loans). Why is this causing you so much despair?

Excellent1

I have to agree with dynamic, you need to take another look at things with a fresh perspective.

I spent my first decade in the job market simply reacting to opportunities as they came along rather than actively shaping and directing my course. That said, I am literally years behind my peers now, but I am finally pursuing what I want to do rather than what I happened to stumble into. If I simply viewed my current circumstances from the standpoint of what I've screwed up, I would find a tall place and jump.

Things happen, people make decisions which at the time seem logical but in hindsight appear to be mistakes. Learn from them and move on.

Obviously, take all this with a grain of salt--I'm just a random guy on the internet, but that's my two cents. Best of luck to you.

mikej412

PentaCube wrote: »

I feel like I have made some big mistakes by changing my major from a programming focuses degree to a network security degree, which has put me a good year behind my peers.

Your bigger mistake is worrying about that being a big mistake.

If you found out that you don't have the "programming gene" -- or an interest in long nights staring at computer monitors and code -- then you made the right choice.

If you made the change because someone told you that you could make lots more money after graduation if you changed to a network security degree -- and then found out that the person who told you that was hired by the network security degree department to do marketing -- then you might have other issues (especially if you don't have the computer networking or computer security genes)....

gosh1976

I'm not sure why you would worry for a moment about being behind "main stream" students who started college directly after high school and are going full time.

consider these stats from 2009: "At both Harvard and Notre Dame the average age is now 27. The University of Phoenix, which offers both online and traditional degree programs, has an average student age of 35-37. On a larger scale thirty-eight percent of all college students are now 25 or older" WGU is popular here on this forum and I looked it up their average age is 36.

You are well ahead of many college students in terms of how old you will be when you graduate. That amount of student debt is certainly not unheard of either.

We can not tell you if you are on the right path or not but I think we can tell you that you certainly have not ruined your life at 23. I wish when I was 23 that the worst thing I had on my mind was growing student loans and the fact that I was going to graduate a bit later than I thought I might back in high school well!

Seriously forget about the comparisons if you don't get over that habit it will cause you loads of grief throughout your life. Concentrate on finding what will make YOU happy in life. Learn lessons from your mistakes which seem pretty minimal to non-existence from what can be discerned from your first post.

I'm have just turned 34 years old and just started back to school this summer. I'm going part time and you would be a semester or two ahead of me if I was going full time. There are people more than 10 years younger than me in class and there are people older than me in class. No big deal we are all working towards goals.

I work hard, I play hard, and I study very very hard. I don't worry about where my friends and peers are in life I just concentrate on working towards the goals I have set for myself.

Qord

No mistake man. I started out as a business admin major. One semester before finishing I decided I wanted to go for Network Admin instead. Since I had so little to go, I finished my business program, and just kept going to school for my second degree.

Just look at it like you have that much more to offer a potential employer than the other guy going for the same job.

earweed

You're only 23 dude. Don't beat yourself up over a little lost time this early in your life. 5 or 6 years down the road you and your peers who may have gotten ahead of you will probably be in the same types of positions and you may have even passed them. Don't look back or compare yourself to others, just look ahead and set goals and work to obtain them.

PentaCube

Wow, thank you all for the reassuring words. I guess I just haven't seen too far outside my current position. I have loved working with computers and networks since I was a kid, guess I was just worried my passion may have clouded my judgement. Seeing as how I plan on collecting certs for a while this seems like a great community to make myself at home in.

Thanks again for the fresh perspective on things!

thenjduke

My theory in life is you should always invest in yourself because you will always come out profitable. Do not worry about student loans and school. Go the path you think you will enjoy. I made a similiar mistake and was taking school for programming but back when I was going that was all their was. I am back in school doing my B.S. for Networking Design and Management and trust me never can go wrong in the IT field. It is a good field.

veritas_libertas

I'm going to take a wild guess and bet on the fact that you are going to Baker College? Baker is an excellent college and I wish I had gone there instead of the community college that I attend (in Michigan.) That programming background going into Network Security will compliment it for sure.

FYI, I will be hitting 30yrs old mark very soon. I should be finishing my Bachelor degree by the end of the year so don't feel bad I am actually planning on pursuing a Master degree a year after I finish this Bachelor degree.

loxleynew

No worries man. I graduated college with a degree in sports exercise and now I am working as a systems admin. Makes sense right? lol.

I think I read a stat somewhere once that the average number of people that change their careers from what they get a degree in from college is like 2/3 or higher. Just because you get a degree in something doesn't mean you cannot change what you do especially in IT where certs and experience trump a degree.

SunnyRain

Nevermind

SunnyRain

I just turned 33 and will be starting college next week for the very first time. It has been about 15 years since I've stepped foot in a classroom, and I am both nervous and excited about this new adventure that I've decided to embark upon. The past 15 years have been spent working in a factory and basically just taking things as they come along. It is tempting to feel like I have wasted the past several years, but I realize that all those years gave me experience doing stuff which taught me valuable skills and a strong work ethic. It was important for me to have that life experience, if anything to motivate me for where I'm at now.

Life is a dynamic situation for which you'll never know with absolute certainty what lies ahead for you in the future. Perhaps some better decisions could have been made up to this point, maybe some mistakes have been made. The more mistakes made, the more you learn. The far bigger mistake is losing sight of a promising future by dwelling on a past that you simply cannot change. At the end of the day you may find that you're happy with those experiences, because without them you wouldn't know the true value of an achievement you may find worth reaching for, and especially of the day when you get there.

So nah, I don't think you really made any huge mistake. Sort of like with food... you may never really know until you try it. As far as your student loans go - think of that as an investment instead of bad debt. Bad debt is stuff like a high-interest credit card maxed out, or a loan taken out on a brand new car that will depreciate like crazy as soon as you drive it off the lot.

Furthermore, your approach to your education and work is at least proactive. A lot of older folks in your state are only going to school because their job situation - unemployment - has basically mandated it. In many of these cases they are getting a government-sponsored education (with the Trade Adjustment Act) which I fear may not be valued nearly as much as an education which one has to pay for out of pocket. It is good to be concerned about your debt, but don't sweat it too much if the resulting career will pay it off and then some in the long run.

Paul Boz

I'm a history major who hasn't even finished college and I'm a security engineer for a very large publicly traded company. A degree doesn't make the man, the man makes the most of the degree. I've got friends who have gone from electrical engineering to psychology to Spanish for majors. Just walk your own path man

Devilsbane

I agree with what the others said. To get out of a private college only $60k in debt is quite an acomplishment. My girlfriend is going to private college and is **** away $32k a year. She will be there for at least 4 years, and then will likely transfer to get her PhD. Do the math, $60k is nothing.

About 5 years ago or so, an average person entering school would expect to pay $100k for their degree. So that is in another 6 years or so.

Plus, from what I've heard in the field, most programming jobs go overseas, so having one in the states is like pulling teeth. Network security is huge right now. I think you made a wise choice, especially since you got the degree that you wanted.

PentaCube

I really appreciate the info everyone. Through rigorous lurking I have done around the forums it seems a degree is trumped by experience. I am just wondering if it would have been more practical to go get my A+ and spend 4 years in support rather than 4-5 years in college? Will I be passed over for those with more experience when I go job searching later this year you think?

dynamik

You can start building experience once you're done with school (or even now through internships, side projects, etc.). Going back to school later in life is significantly more difficult than just getting it done with when you're young. I think you're in pretty good shape overall.

PentaCube

So will the degree work in conjunction with any experience I gain after school? What I mean to say is will that degree help me in ways that equivalent work experience can not? I'm hoping the degree with the 6-9 months of internship experience I have had will make getting that job easier.

BeachNinja

PentaCube wrote: »

I really appreciate the info everyone. Through rigorous lurking I have done around the forums it seems a degree is trumped by experience. I am just wondering if it would have been more practical to go get my A+ and spend 4 years in support rather than 4-5 years in college? Will I be passed over for those with more experience when I go job searching later this year you think?

Just like you, I've been a lurker for a few months myself as well and I can attest to the fact that experience > degree when getting into this field. I've been applying for every entry level tech job / internship well before I obtained my bachelors in April. Between the last interview I had in August of LAST year till now, I've gotten nowhere. I don't know if my MIS degree which falls under the business school umbrella is throwing people off, or my meager 3 months of prior tech support experience is too pathetic to consider.... all I know is that its frustrating as hell. Oh, and I just turned 25, so in my case I should be passed out on carbon monoxide lol.....

earweed

25 is still very young. You have a bright future ahead of you once you get it into gear. Oh and welcome to the forums both of you.
To the OP that internship will help you a lot if you used it wisely and made some connections for a possible job after graduation.

gosh1976

I think it is important to remember that not only are there a lot of people out there with years of experience still looking for jobs that were laid off in the last few years. There are also tons of people entering the work force each year in IT and IT is very popular with career changers and has been for quite some time. There are a ton of jobs out there n IT but there are also a ton of people applying for those jobs.

So it's important to do everything you can to make yourself stand out in the crowd. Getting the degree is one part of that, certifications are a another part, and the final piece of the puzzle is getting experience anywhere you can. I have a full time job and I can't afford to take much of a pay cut so I have passed by a number of possible job ads for part time work that would be great for experience. They would be a great opportunity for a student in a different position than me or for someone otherwise out of work. There are charity groups looking for IT help. My school has a help desk staffed with part time working students and they are currently seeking students to work as a cisco lab assistant and another to be an assistant in the game lab.

Just get some experience anywhere you can even if it's for peanuts or for free. To BeachNinja maybe your resume needs to be tweaked or you net needs to be widened. Just keep plugging away the job market is competitive right now but it seems the hard part is getting your foot in the door. Once you get past the first hurdle it seems those with the work ethic, the skills, and the education can indeed advance very quickly.

Hyper-Me

At some point, we need to break this mold of paying exhorbant amounts of cash to universities for lackluster education.

60k is a lot of money for someone to be in debt when they are just starting out their adult life.

PentaCube

Hyper-Me wrote: »

At some point, we need to break this mold of paying exhorbant amounts of cash to universities for lackluster education.

60k is a lot of money for someone to be in debt when they are just starting out their adult life.

There goes some of the wind from my sails :P

Psoasman

PentaCube wrote: »

Hey all. This is obviously my first post here. I have lurked for a while though. My current situation has got me so depressed and anxious that I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I am one class away from my associates at a private college here in michigan and will have my bachelors in about a year and a half. I plan on collecting certs to help as well, starting with A+, N+, and S+. I have about 6 months combined experience at 2 internships i have been through.

I feel like I have made some big mistakes by changing my major from a programming focuses degree to a network security degree, which has put me a good year behind my peers. The way the classes are set up and the economy in this area I had to depend on student loans to get my degree. It will cost me about 60k in loans to get my bachelors. I am 23 years old and I already feel my life is ruined. I understand all my options as far as my student loan repayment goes.

Has anyone else had this sort of experience? Was this even remotely the proper path? Any advice would be great. Please don't take this as a sob story, I am just hoping for some thoughts.

If it makes you feel better, I was 32 when I started working on IT certs and a degree. I had been doing Massage Therapy for about 6 years and when the economy tanked, I had to get solid work to take care of my family.
I think you made the right decision, 1 year is not that long, and you are still young.

BeachNinja

earweed wrote: »

25 is still very young. You have a bright future ahead of you once you get it into gear. Oh and welcome to the forums both of you.

Thanks, I know I still have a bit to go age-wise before I start being considered otherwise. But as you know since almost everything is relative, sometimes you get caught up looking at the negative more so than the positive side of things.

gosh1976 wrote: »

Just get some experience anywhere you can even if it's for peanuts or for free. To BeachNinja maybe your resume needs to be tweaked or you net needs to be widened. Just keep plugging away the job market is competitive right now but it seems the hard part is getting your foot in the door. Once you get past the first hurdle it seems those with the work ethic, the skills, and the education can indeed advance very quickly.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with your comment about having to widen my net. This has been an epic fail for me. Being too introverted has been both my greatest strength and weakness. Either way I’ll follow your advice and if I still can’t land anything in the foreseeable future, I’ll see if I can get a mix of a part-time volunteer IT gig and a PT job doing anything else.

gosh1976

another thing that is often overlooked is good old fashioned human networking! It is a sill set in which I am sorely lacking. So many jobs are already filled before they are ever advertised if they are advertised at all.

Joining and being active in professional organizations & associations, alumni groups, and well like I said it's a skill I'm not great with. Just do what you can to grow your network! I'm terrible at it. Tap up your friends. Look for clubs or groups having meetings or luncheons. One of my old bosses has a luncheon like once a month where they discuss issues in IT. Anybody is welcome and all it costs is however much your meal is. I've never been but I guarantee you my old boss isn't doing it because the conversation is interesting. That's just a bonus if it is indeed interesting he is doing it to build his business and grow his network. Which reminds me there are groups like rotary club and others that are great for growing a professional network.

hmmm if only I was better at taking my own advice!

Devilsbane

gosh1976 wrote: »

another thing that is often overlooked is good old fashioned human networking! It is a sill set in which I am sorely lacking. So many jobs are already filled before they are ever advertised if they are advertised at all.

I was too, but after working a few months in an office I am completely comfortable with approaching people of different departments when a situation arises where I need their help (or when they come over to my desk because they need mine). I'm sure the longer I'm here the closer I will get with people, and 10 years down the line maybe it will pay off big?

wheez

It's been a couple of days since the opening post but I couldn't resist replying on this on.. so let me tell you the story of my (ongoing) road to success *ahum*..

- I finished high school in 1997 with flying colors
- Quit my MS in 1998
- Quit my BS in 1999
- Worked for a year in a totally unrelated field (window cleaner - so not totally unrelated if you look at a system admin as a Windows cleaner )
- Quit my (similar to) AS in about 2001

I did however always do pretty good on the job during internships.. so got a poorly paid job at a company I worked for as an intern during the AS. Worked there for about five years, while getting loads of experience working for several clients.

In 2006 I got offered a job at the current companies biggest client, which I took. Around that time I started an online BS. In 2007 my manager quit and I was promoted to supervisor. Finished my BS in 2009, while achieving quite some certs along the way.

At the moment I'm still with the same company working hard (and hopefully well on the way) to get another promotion, and enjoying every moment of it.

I know this isn't the ideal path.. and wouldn't really recommend it to anyone else.. Just want to point out you'll get there, like others have said, with experience, education, knowing the right people and a bit of luck.