Virtual NAS

erpadmin

Hi. I found a couple of good boxes that meet my requirements for creating VMs. I want to eventually create a SQL Server failover cluster from two of the VMs I'll use for labbing for my MCITP: EA. (The SQL Server cluster is a secondary project...not necessarily going for certs on SQL (though I will in the future). From what I read, clustering between two VMs is possible, but what is (can be) used for a Virtual NAS/Shared Storage, without of course buying a real SAN or Storage Array. I was hoping I could use the available space from the host and have the two VMs share that. Will I need separate hardware for this? If so, what's an inexpensive solution?

Just wanted to get feedback here before I did my own digging. Much thanks.

Edit: I found an article that mentioned a free iSCSI SAN application that will emulate a SAN. Anyone using these? Are there any others that you use that are good?

http://starwindsoftware.com/
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=90725

Zartanasaurus

I used OpenFiler to do this.

tiersten

You're going to have issues with the IET iSCSI implementation in Openfiler. IET doesn't implement persistent reservations correctly and Server 2008 wants and checks it.

Read this post by RobertKaucher/ He lists the steps and tools necessary to get the failover cluster.

erpadmin

Excellent! Thank you tiersten, and zartan.

If need to, I can always contact Rob but his post seems pretty straightforward.

I plan on going to SQL Server 2008 in my practice anyway and try to mimic what I have in my current production at work, but with an updated SQL application.

Thanks again!

staggerlee

I just started using FreeNAS,

Lots of YouTube posts and links around:

YouTube - Step by Step How to Make a FreeNAS Box

FreeNAS Server on VMware Workstation with iSCSI Disks for MS Cluster

Setup Microsoft Windows 2008 R2 Failover Cluster in VMware Workstation

earweed

staggerlee wrote: »

I just started using FreeNAS,

Lots of YouTube posts and links around:

YouTube - Step by Step How to Make a FreeNAS Box

FreeNAS Server on VMware Workstation with iSCSI Disks for MS Cluster

Setup Microsoft Windows 2008 R2 Failover Cluster in VMware Workstation

Probably your best bet when first starting out as you'll probably be using VMWare workstation at first. Hyper_V will come later (while studying for 70-643) and will make your tasks a lot more straightforward.
70-643 will also have you diving in a little more into how to set up different types of storage as it has a section in 1 chapter about storage. You'll want to go a little deeper into storage than the MS Press book does. For that use Claymoores sticky thread technet articles as they have helped me to understand storage a lot better. I barely understood anything about different methods of storage until reading a few technet articles on it.

RobertKaucher

I have done a little research on this for work and, I am not certain, but it looks like the Windows Storage Server is dead and the functionality has been included in Server 2008 R2, so you should be able to create the required iSCSI target using Win Server 2008 R2 without having to buy or deal with the trial stuff.

Again, not 100% sure, but it looks like its a role you can add in R2.
Create an iSCSI Target

erpadmin

RobertKaucher wrote: »

I have done a little research on this for work and, I am not certain, but it looks like the Windows Storage Server is dead and the functionality has been included in Server 2008 R2, so you should be able to create the required iSCSI target using Win Server 2008 R2 without having to buy or deal with the trial stuff.

Again, not 100% sure, but it looks like its a role you can add in R2.
Create an iSCSI Target

What if my box will have SATA drives in a non-Raid configuration? Will my box have to have real iSCSI disk and a controller? Or is the iSCSI virtual (I was under the impression the iSCSI stuff would be virtual).

RobertKaucher

erpadmin wrote: »

What if my box will have SATA drives in a non-Raid configuration? Will my box have to have real iSCSI disk and a controller? Or is the iSCSI virtual (I was under the impression the iSCSI stuff would be virtual).

iSCSI is just a network port of the SCSI protocol. If I were setting up a lab today I would use Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V with about 5 disks in it. I would create my VMs and if I were intending on doing clustering I would then use the physical host to share the extra disks among the VMs via the iSCSI protocol.

iSCSI is not a type of disk, you are probably confusing it with serial attached SCSI? iSCSI allows you to take physical storage on one machine and share it via an IP network with other machines who will see it as if it were directly attached. So when you add an iSCSI disk it shows up in disk management, you can format it NTFS, etc.

But since the disk commands are all done via a network you can share the same disk among multiple servers which is what allows you to do clustering. So your actual physical disks don't really matter (except for performance).

erpadmin

I wrote that without coffee....(durrrr...). LMAO. Please don't hold that against me.
(EDIT: In truth, I've only dealt with fibrechanel drives in our EMC SANs...only thing I knew about iSCSI was that it was a cheaper alternative...but we've never used it in any of our other environments...definitely something I will read up on though, I can promise you (and me) that. )


I definitely get it now as you made it quite plainly. I look forward to setting this up. It's not going to be immediate, as I want to get the MCITP stuff first, but when I get my "guests"/VMs up and running, I'm going to throw SS 2K8R2 on both of my W2K8R2 nodes and get iSCSI up and running via W2K8R2.

I am extremely happy that I don't have to get extra hardware for this. I do plan on using 4 250GB disks, non-RAID so that my VMs don't take a hit (as well as cost, of course...if I need real RAID, I can pick up a controller later). To mitigate against drive failure, I'll be using disk imagining software like Ghost or Acronis' product and schedule regular image backups against the host to a DVD or my external terrabye (and a half) drive. Since it's just a lab, I'm not that worried about it, but I'd hate to do all that setup again. LOL.

MentholMoose

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Again, not 100% sure, but it looks like its a role you can add in R2.
Create an iSCSI Target

The Feature the article is referring to is "Storage Manager for SANs". It has some management functionality but no iSCSI Target, which is exclusive to WSS 08. If you try to install Microsoft iSCSI Software Target on 2008 R2, it will refuse to install.

I don't think WSS 08 is discontinued. More info is available here:
Windows Storage Server 2008

earweed

This looks like WSS is kind of ruled out
How Is Windows Storage Server 2008 Sold

Windows Storage Server is an OEM-only product, which means Microsoft partners with OEMs to sell an appliance solution

MentholMoose

Yeah it's OEM-only, though there may be an evaluation edition available, and it is definitely available to TechNet subscribers.

RobertKaucher

MentholMoose wrote: »

Yeah it's OEM-only, though there may be an evaluation edition available, and it is definitely available to TechNet subscribers.

The reason why it is defunct is because it has been integrated into the main server product as of R2.

(I should say that is what I have been reading, any way.)

astorrs

RobertKaucher wrote: »

The reason why it is defunct is because it has been integrated into the main server product as of R2.

(I should say that is what I have been reading, any way.)

That is correct, they said as much when they released it last year:
Microsoft Unveils Final Windows Storage Server

MentholMoose

So there's an iSCSI target in 2008 R2?

RobertKaucher

MentholMoose wrote: »

So there's an iSCSI target in 2008 R2?

Apparently not as far as I can tell. I think I may have been misled by what I have been reading. I'm not sure what is going on with R2... It seems like they killed Storage Server as a seperate edition of the OS and they are claiming they are integrating the functionality into the main OS but I see no indication that it has actually been done.

earweed

From what I read it will be incorporated into the next server version MS shoots out at us..probably in 2012. I think R2 was already out when they made that announcement. I checked for anything about iSCSI in the 2008 R2 ebook I got from MS last week and didn't find anything about this.

erpadmin

Ok, so native iSCSI appears to be out until Microsoft releases either a patch, new product, or something for 2008 R2. But the third-party apps that have been mentioned previously would still be good right?

earweed

Yeah the third party apps should be good. Like I said in my last post, it's likely MS will have a new server version out in 2012 or 2013 so I don't expect the iSCSI stuff to be added to R2 but will be on their next "newest and best server operating system"

erpadmin

earweed wrote: »

Yeah the third party apps should be good. Like I said in my last post, it's likely MS will have a new server version out in 2012 or 2013 so I don't expect the iSCSI stuff to be added to R2 but will be on their next "newest and best server operating system"

That's terribly unusual for MS to pull to do this if there is demand. I'm guessing demand is low, but I doubt it if they were going to spend time doing it in the next release. I'd be more understanding if it was at most 2 service packs away....but not another release.

Oh well, I can definitely deal with the third party stuff....I definitely have time.

earweed

And another thought too. That laptop of yours can be used with VMWare workstation to do a few labs on your long commutes if you want.

erpadmin

earweed wrote: »

And another thought too. That laptop of yours can be used with VMWare workstation to do a few labs on your long commutes if you want.

I have too much going on on my work laptop as it is. It's only got 2 GB on it, but much of it gets used. I primarily use it to VPN to work and the normal Internet use and of course, studying. The server is more than enough to handle my labbing needs and perhaps some other stuff that I can put on a W7 guest if I need to. My laptop is due for an upgrade though, but I'm fine with it for right now.

Besides, it's kinda hard to do labs and drive. (I only not drive when I have to go into Manhattan and that isn't terribly often.)

tiersten

erpadmin wrote: »

Besides, it's kinda hard to do labs and drive. (I only not drive when I have to go into Manhattan and that isn't terribly often.)

Voice recognition software and a HUD?

Running VMs on a laptop will drain the battery really quickly as well.

Hyper-Me

The real problem with labbing virtually on a "desktop" machine is when you hit products like SBS that absolutely require certain amounts of RAM or they dont install.

My VM box has 8GB of RAM. Giving SBS 4 and reserving 1 for the host leaves 3 GB to run everything else i'd need to run.

erpadmin

Hyper-Me wrote: »

The real problem with labbing virtually on a "desktop" machine is when you hit products like SBS that absolutely require certain amounts of RAM or they dont install.

My VM box has 8GB of RAM. Giving SBS 4 and reserving 1 for the host leaves 3 GB to run everything else i'd need to run.

Which is why I think 16GB should be more than adequate. I plan on hopefully getting away with 2-4 GB a piece depending on what I need installed, etc. W7 isn't getting that much, for example. (most likely 2GB)

8GB should be fine just to get me started. Should be able to create a virtual DC or two. Gotta see.

earweed

I went through 70-640 and 70-642 with 2 GB and it was no fun.

erpadmin

earweed wrote: »

I went through 70-640 and 70-642 with 2 GB and it was no fun.

Try to go with 4-6GB for the servers then.....I wanna have a minimum of 5 machines. It's something I'll have to play with, no doubt.

MentholMoose

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Apparently not as far as I can tell. I think I may have been misled by what I have been reading. I'm not sure what is going on with R2... It seems like they killed Storage Server as a seperate edition of the OS and they are claiming they are integrating the functionality into the main OS but I see no indication that it has actually been done.

I don't think WSS 08 is EOL yet, but when it is they will add the functionality to whatever server OS is current at the time. That is, if they even add it tor general use. Per the link astorrs shared, the functionality will be "limited-access", so it may only be available to OEMs.

Hyper-Me

You can run Windows 7 and/or 2008 VMs on 512mb RAM if you are doing a light workload (just a DC role, etc). Of course id add some more if you are installing something like SQL.

MentholMoose

Hyper-Me wrote: »

The real problem with labbing virtually on a "desktop" machine is when you hit products like SBS that absolutely require certain amounts of RAM or they dont install.

My VM box has 8GB of RAM. Giving SBS 4 and reserving 1 for the host leaves 3 GB to run everything else i'd need to run.

It's really a hassle to have a VM eating all that RAM if it's not being used. I recall that Hyper-V in 2008 R2 SP1 was supposed to have some new memory management functionality. I don't know how comparable it is to ESX or even XenServer, but it might be worth looking into the SP1 beta to see if there's more flexibility. Of course if your SBS server really needs all that RAM then you are out of luck.