Is a sideways move worth it?

gorebrush

There's another thread about me ranting on about my current job.

Anyway, most of the jobs that do come up in my area are a mix of Server/Networking jobs and not pure network.

A job has come up again (which I was asked to look at before but I was never put forward) which would be a sideways move for me - same money, but a much bigger infrastructure, and I would be able to get my hand in new areas (VMWare, SAN's, Citrix). There is some emphasis on networking but not an awful lot, and networking ultimately is what I want. However, this new company also have paid callouts, 1500 computers (as opposed to the 80 that I look after now) and I would be part of a 10 man team and not one or two like I have been used to.

I know that this particular company have managed to recruit two people, but the first guy came one day and didnt come back the second because he secured a better contract (he was a contract worker) and the second guy was outbid by the company he was already working for.

So, here's my dilemma.

Do I continue working here - while I am in charge of running the entire network, I think my time ultimately is not infinite. I can get on with making improvements to the network/servers, as long as this does not involve spending any money

Or

Do I join a much bigger infrastructure, with a company that *IS* willing to spend money (they have already indicated that they are upgrading e-mail, AD and SQL (and I've managed an Exchange upgrade before) all for the same money?

Tough choice. I am ready to leave my current place, and while the new gig probably isnt exactly what I want to do, I suppose I can always keep my Cisco studies going in the background - at least if I did move, I could pick up new skills (which are always handy)

EDIT

Just had an e-mail from the recruiter to say that they do not have a networking team, but they do use Cisco gear.

I've just dropped in that I am doing the CCIE as well - this might scare the employer - but that is fine - If they want a CCIE on board then I know that this is a good move

Mojo_666

Sounds like a good move to me, you can make yourself their Cisco guy.

tpatt100

I think sideways moves are fine. I made a sideways move a couple of years after I first started in IT. I was doing help desk and then desktop support and jr lan admin work. There were a bunch of other employees.

I did a sideways move for really only a couple of thousand more, the place was actually down the street. People thought I was nuts for leaving a big defense contractor and go to a city job working for local government.

Reason I took it? There was only one other lan admin there and I was able to take over their Citrix implementation, Windows AD and they had no real security policy in place. At my other job I was struggling to get noticed, at the new place my opinion mattered.

N2IT

tpatt100 wrote: »

I think sideways moves are fine. I made a sideways move a couple of years after I first started in IT. I was doing help desk and then desktop support and jr lan admin work. There were a bunch of other employees.

I did a sideways move for really only a couple of thousand more, the place was actually down the street. People thought I was nuts for leaving a big defense contractor and go to a city job working for local government.

Reason I took it? There was only one other lan admin there and I was able to take over their Citrix implementation, Windows AD and they had no real security policy in place. At my other job I was struggling to get noticed, at the new place my opinion mattered.

I am currently struggling with this right now. I am comfortable, but there are some "contract" jobs out there that offer a new dynamic. I'm help desk guy right now, but data operator might be something to offer new skills. Batch operating, job scheduling, backups, and alert monitoring. I admin it's nothing special but the added skills could add up.

My point is I understand your point of view.

gorebrush

I like a lot of things about this job to be honest.

The money is the same as what I make now - but less travelling and free lunch (that does save some money)

Oh, they pay callout! - Never had that before

I like it because it is a much bigger environment than I am used to working in - and as Mojo points out, I could easily carve myself a Network post if they can see how advanced I am with networking.

Or they could already have someone doing all that - but I could be good cover

rwmidl

Nothing wrong with lateral moves. If the money is the same and you think the opportunity is better then I would say go for it.

gorebrush

Well, it is "better" but not to the point where I think I need to uproot quite yet.

Thinking about my current position, I do get full hands on with the network and it is 100% Cisco - so it helps me stay sharp.

I've since learned that in fact they don't use Cisco networking - that is a major downer for me and I would consider going to a company without any Cisco infrastructure a major step backwards, so I'll probably skip this one.

Devilsbane

Companies like people in demand. Even a lateral move is seen positive in their eyes because it makes you look eager to work and move.

Compare 2 people. 10 years have lapsed for both. Person A has made 3 or 4 lateral moves. Person B has sat in the same job with the same title for 10 years. Based on that information alone, who do you think would make a better employee?

In the past it was probably person B. Companies liked to have long term employees. It was common to work in just a few jobs before retirement. Now employers like to see people that aren't bumps on a log. Holding a job for a month is still frowned upon, but by moving every year or 2 you look to be in demand.

erpadmin

Devilsbane wrote: »

Companies like people in demand. Even a lateral move is seen positive in their eyes because it makes you look eager to work and move.

Compare 2 people. 10 years have lapsed for both. Person A has made 3 or 4 lateral moves. Person B has sat in the same job with the same title for 10 years. Based on that information alone, who do you think would make a better employee?

In the past it was probably person B. Companies liked to have long term employees. It was common to work in just a few jobs before retirement. Now employers like to see people that aren't bumps on a log. Holding a job for a month is still frowned upon, but by moving every year or 2 you look to be in demand.

Don't worry my young friend, the answer is still B at MANY places. Depending on the field, company, etc., a lot of places still don't care for job hoppers. Many young companies are understanding, because of the economy, etc, but there are those that still value stability.

Me personally, if I were to judge based on your scenario, I would press person A on his skill set and why he jumped around. If he can prove that his skillset improved, and wasn't just jumping ship because he's useless, then I would press person B on his skillset much harder. At that point, all things being equal, it's a judgement call, based on who passed the smell test the best. But my preference will always be to find someone who will make a career with a place over someone who's hoppin' around, like Bobby Brown.

Devilsbane

erpadmin wrote: »

Don't worry my young friend, the answer is still B at MANY places. Depending on the field, company, etc., a lot of places still don't care for job hoppers. Many young companies are understanding, because of the economy, etc, but there are those that still value stability.

Me personally, if I were to judge based on your scenario, I would press person A on his skill set and why he jumped around. If he can prove that his skillset improved, and wasn't just jumping ship because he's useless, then I would press person B on his skillset much harder. At that point, all things being equal, it's a judgement call, based on who passed the smell test the best. But my preference will always be to find someone who will make a career with a place over someone who's hoppin' around, like Bobby Brown.

I have spoke with a few people in HR departments who won't consider you for a position if you sat in the last one for more than a year unless you can justify why. (Promotions, added tasks, ect)

And I know what you are saying here. If you are moving because it is your choice, then it can be a plus. But your reason for moving could be because you were fired / expecting to be fired, or you can't play well with others. You don't want someone like that. But you also don't want that first guy who knows how to do one thing and vegitates all day doing it.

tpatt100

Devilsbane wrote: »

Companies like people in demand. Even a lateral move is seen positive in their eyes because it makes you look eager to work and move.

Compare 2 people. 10 years have lapsed for both. Person A has made 3 or 4 lateral moves. Person B has sat in the same job with the same title for 10 years. Based on that information alone, who do you think would make a better employee?

In the past it was probably person B. Companies liked to have long term employees. It was common to work in just a few jobs before retirement. Now employers like to see people that aren't bumps on a log. Holding a job for a month is still frowned upon, but by moving every year or 2 you look to be in demand.

When I was being interviewed for my new job they asked me why I was looking to move already from a large company.

I answered "I see the strong possibility of me becoming static and obsolete if I stay with them. They are slow to adapt to change."

I emphasized I was not trashing them but corporate policy adapted to change like an aircraft carrier trying to make a u-turn. (not my exact words lol)

but yeah I am almost 40 now and I need to figure out what career progression I will take in the next five years. If I stay where I am at I will find myself quickly becoming a clock watcher.

erpadmin

Devilsbane wrote: »

I have spoke with a few people in HR departments who won't consider you for a position if you sat in the last one for more than a year unless you can justify why. (Promotions, added tasks, ect)

And I know what you are saying here. If you are moving because it is your choice, then it can be a plus. But your reason for moving could be because you were fired / expecting to be fired, or you can't play well with others. You don't want someone like that. But you also don't want that first guy who knows how to do one thing and vegitates all day doing it.

Exactly! However, there are a number of HR departments that I've dealt with when it was the other way around, unless you could justify why you were with an organization for such a short time. The reasons one could justify when it's less than a year is that an entire department was canned and there was nowhere in the organization those folks could have been transferred to. Or that your department was moving more than 40-50 miles away, and legally, you can separate from your employer right then and there, (sometimes get a severance, at that) and start collecting right away (like me many moons ago...I wasn't going from NJ to Omaha, NE...lol).

At the same time though, not everyone "vegitates" at their job either...every year since I've been here, for example, there has always been a major project that I've been involved with. Whether it was an implementation, a re-implmentation (an upgrade that requires new infrastructure, like what I'm doing as I type this response... ), an upgrade to current infrastructure, an application upgrade, etc., etc.

I would have killed myself a long time ago if all I did was production support. Thankfully it's not the case, and my next move, personally won't be a lateral move.

In the OP's case, it only makes sense to do a lateral if you are REALLY unhappy with your job to the point it may make sense to move on, ideally to a place that you find ideal so that you don't have to bounce again.

Devilsbane

tpatt100 wrote: »

I emphasized I was not trashing them but corporate policy adapted to change like an aircraft carrier trying to make a u-turn. (not my exact words lol)

I'd like to see that lol

earweed

A lateral move could be good or bad. If you are currently really unhappy with your job then it could be a good move. As some other posters have said there are plusses and minuses to changing jobs.
As for just staying doing the same thing I just had a phone interview yesterday where the interviewer was offended when I referred to helpdesk as entry level (and yes the job posting stated entry level) and the interviewer said that of the 10 HD people she had there none had expressed an interest in the internal posting for a more advanced position. this was after I had asked her about the opportunities for advancement with the helpdesk position. I don't plan on spending the rest of my working life at one position or even one place.
If I really love the job and where I work then I may stay at the one place but if there's no way to move up from where I'm at then it may be time to move on.
I believe the OP has already ruled out this lateral move due to their not being a cisco shop and he's interested in Cisco. Probably a good move on his part but since this is about lateral moves I still chose to chime in.

powerfool

If you want to move into management, lateral moves in your career experience are a nightmare. However, just because it is a lateral move now doesn't mean that you can't turn it into something better down the road. I had a lateral move out of necessity and ended up assuming so much responsibility that they created a new job title for me that was better reflective of my job and gave me seniority over others on my team.

It's all in what you make of it.

Zartanasaurus

One of the only reasons I'd ever consider a sideways move is if I was moving to an org with more advancement/learning opportunities. Seems like yours fits the bill.

poriggity

If you don't like what you are currently doing, and can move to a different position, potentially doing something you enjoy, DO IT. Life's too short to hate your job.

dynamik

I think you should go for it. You seemed pretty damn miserable about your current situation a few posts ago. Don't forget to factor in less stress and more satisfaction into the equation; it doesn't sound like it will be a lateral move even though the money is the same.

blargoe

Sideways moves are fine. As long as you're not moving backwards. Sounds like there would be a lot of upside potential to the job you described.

gorebrush

Time to bump this post.

So, I've just been offered an interview for this company, and apparently they are very picky about hiring people, so to be invited to interview is a good start.

I have to bump it because I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place now.

I'm with an employer where I simply do not know where I stand - no progress ever gets made with anything in terms of long term strategic things that I have brought up and i'm starting to get really twitchy.

The problem is with an interview on the table, it is hard to turn this down when potentially I could be made redundant in <= 6 months time and I cannot afford redundancy.

ARGH, decisions.

Long term, yes, I want to be working 100% in Networking. However, I don't want to be sat on my arse in a few months time because I've been canned.

This new company has an IT infrastructure that is 10x the size of anything I have been looking after so far, so if nothing else I have the potential to get experience in a large enterprise environment, and I get the chance to work with Citrx, VMWare and SAN's which are things I don't have experience with at the moment.

There is nothing in the way of pure Cisco work coming up in South Wales, but who is to say that I'll get offered this and then next week something better will come up. Tough.

EDIT2: A good chat to the Mrs has sanity checked me. I don't think I will be making the move. Despite how unhappy and unsettled I am - I don't think moving further away from Cisco is the path I should be taking.

While I am here and things are quiet, I can always study CCIE at work, and it will be seen as beneficial to the company (should they eventually decide to to make use of someone who can actually build them a new network as they asked). If I DO get made redundant, well at least I won't have to come to work 8 hours a day and maybe I can get some serious rack time, LOL. Joke.

However, redundancy wouldn't be the end of the world, I have other things on the go...

BrizoH

I think you've answered your own question really, you're bored at your current workplace going by previous posts and seem to be stuck in a rut.

I'm in a similar situation - I've just accepted what some may consider a backward step (from IT Manager to System Administrator), going from making all the decisions and doing all the technical work alone to being part of a team of sysadmins.

However it is with a very big company, certainly the biggest I've worked for, in the mobile telecoms field and with a reputation for promotion/investing in staff so I'm confident it'll be the right choice in the long run. (And like your offer I'll now get paid for being on call, what a novel idea!!!)

My opinion, go for it. Good luck whatever you decide!

Plantwiz

gorebrush wrote: »

Well, it is "better" but not to the point where I think I need to uproot quite yet.

Sometimes that is the best time to move...just before you 'jump the shark'

Thinking about my current position, I do get full hands on with the network and it is 100% Cisco - so it helps me stay sharp.

I've since learned that in fact they don't use Cisco networking - that is a major downer for me and I would consider going to a company without any Cisco infrastructure a major step backwards, so I'll probably skip this one.

Up to you.

If you are thinking about moving...there is a good chance you won't stop thinking about moving. Nothing wrong with making a move...then making another in 6-12 months.

loxleynew

If you're unhappy now there's a good chance you will not just magically become happier. It's a downward spiral in It that once you start thinking about changing jobs it just gets worse. Maybe this other job isn't the right one for you but you should continue looking.

Taking one step back sometimes leads to two steps forwards also.

gorebrush

All good points - I at least know what to expect where I am - I'd hate to go somewhere else to be worse off in the happiness stakes...

Devilsbane

BrizoH wrote: »

II'm in a similar situation - I've just accepted what some may consider a backward step (from IT Manager to System Administrator), going from making all the decisions and doing all the technical work alone to being part of a team of sysadmins.

Sometimes you have to go back down a step in order to get to the top. There are many people that make that same move because they enjoy the technical work and don't want to be on top sitting in an office making decisions.

Good luck

loxleynew

gorebrush wrote: »

All good points - I at least know what to expect where I am - I'd hate to go somewhere else to be worse off in the happiness stakes...

True but if you live life saying this you will never get ahead If you wait to look for a position that is guaranteed to be 100% happiness and better then you will be waiting forever and honestly be let down. You should know more about the job after doing the interview. Why not just do the interview anyways and see what it goes like?

Paul Boz

I personally wouldn’t change jobs if it was for the same pay / similar job duties. Changing jobs is stressful, you are guaranteed to lose money due to a gap in employment, and it may turn out to be a worse environment than where you are currently. I would continue getting certs and continue applying for higher paying jobs. Life is too short to walk sideways.