I'm An Admin, Why Should I Learn to Code?

Forsaken_GA

dynamik wrote: »

He makes some decent points, but I question some of the items, such as the closing bit about how there hasn't been much change or innovation in the last decade.

I think hes referring more to the lack of innovation in the network world, and honestly, he's right. Data Transport hasn't had any radical changes (they're coming, via things like TRILL and OTV), but it's still mostly about how packets get from one point to the other. The only thing that's REALLY changed is that the links get faster.

I came from an environment with absolutely no virtualization to an environment with heavy virtualization, so alot of what Greg talks about is immediately applicable to me. Making sure I have enough bandwidth for vMotion, for example, is a fun new challenge. I'm going to have to learn alot more about vmware and storage than I was planning on, but I actually like this, the more pies I have my fingers in, the better it is for my career.

Also related, I had to tweak the MySQL source to get it to compile on OpenBSD. I might just go with the package next time...

openbsd can be a special kind of hell on occasion. I can't remember what release it was, but net-snmp was broken. Horribly broken. Package wouldn't install and it wouldn't compile. After about 4 hours of hacking it out trying to get one or the other to work, I finally said screw it and used FreeBSD instead.

Other distro's have annoying problems like that as well. Debian LDAP interoperability comes immediately to mind.

dynamik

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I think hes referring more to the lack of innovation in the network world, and honestly, he's right.

Yea, I understood where he was coming from. While core protocols like IP, TCP, etc. haven't changed, what about VOIP, wireless, and security controls? If he's branching out to things like virtualization and storage, it seems like those would also fall under that larger umbrella.

Forsaken_GA

dynamik wrote: »

Yea, I understood where he was coming from. While core protocols like IP, TCP, etc. haven't changed, what about VOIP, wireless, and security controls? If he's branching out to things like virtualization and storage, it seems like those would also fall under that larger umbrella.

From a network perspective, VOIP and wireless are still just packets being pushed from one packet generator to the other. Some folks innovated a way to put voice communications into the network, the only real result for network operators was that they had to treat those packets better than some other packets, which was nothing new - the concept and implementation of QoS is well over 10 years old. True, there's been some refinement of how QoS is handled between now and then, but I don't really consider refinement to be innovation.

Same thing with wireless, the 802.11's popped up in the late 90's, so it's been over 10 years since it came to be a factor. Like QoS, it keeps getting refined, not really innovated upon. The concept of using RF for communication is and was nothing new either, the innovative part was making it interact with data networks.

I can't speak to security, as it's a field I'm pretty weak in.

But one way or another, all of the cool stuff we can do with networks these days.... has been around for years. It's just within maybe the last 4 to 6 years that some folks figured out a way to actually make money off the tech, and so it's come to the forefront of the public's attention.

Likewise, storage solutions and virutalization have been around alot longer than people realize, but they're now a big issue because it actually works as an affordable solution to the demands that many companies have.

dynamik

Good response. I've personally never been in a position where "networking" was defined so narrowly, and I think I use a broader definition resulting from my experiences. It's always been intertwined with other technologies with me, but I also started on the systems side of things.

Let's just not take this logic to an extreme and say nothing in computing has ever changed since it's still just 1s and 0s at its core

Forsaken_GA

dynamik wrote: »

Good response. I've personally never been in a position where "networking" was defined so narrowly, and I think I use a broader definition resulting from my experiences. It's always been intertwined with other technologies with me, but I also started on the systems side of things.

Let's just not take this logic to an extreme and say nothing in computing has ever changed since it's still just 1s and 0s at its core

Well, obviously, we're not going to go there hehe.

Personally, I look at VOIP as more of an application than a network technology. To me, a CallManager admin is on par with an Exchange admin.

But honestly, most of the technology that we would consider innovative today, was developed well over a decade ago, it just may not have made it to market until within the last decade, so that kind of skews perspective.

MPLS is a perfect example of this. MPLS circuits are all the rage these days, it's pretty much replaced frame relay. But MPLS was original developed by Cisco in the last century as a proprietary standard. Then the ietf got ahold of it and the committees reformed it as the open MPLS standard (sounds a bit like ISL and 802.1q!). So the capability has been around for awhile, it wasn't until the last 5 years or so that anyone found anything that it would actually be good for.

ipv6 is going to be another technology that seems magical and new once it finally gets deployed. Most people would be surprised to learn that the original RFC was published in 1998.

dynamik

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Personally, I look at VOIP as more of an application than a network technology. To me, a CallManager admin is on par with an Exchange admin.

Right, I was actually thinking about that very example, and I agree. Here's what I don't understand though, why isn't VMware considered just another application? Why is vMotion something special when you're essentially just having to prioritize the traffic and ensure there is sufficient throughput?

I agree with the vast majority of the article. It just seems like either there hasn't been any innovation in the last decade (according to that narrow definition of networking) and storage and virtualization aren't new either, or these are indeed innovations, but there have also been many other ones.

I thought it sounded like he's saying network admins will have to learn about hypervisor administration, storage concepts (LUNs, IOPS, etc.), and so on. These aren't "networking" concepts. He even calls it "converged engineering" and states that its a blend of the three disciplines. Like I said, I just don't understand why that's a networking innovation and other items aren't. It's not important at all; I'm just nitpicking...

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

ipv6 is going to be another technology that seems magical and new once it finally gets deployed. Most people would be surprised to learn that the original RFC was published in 1998.

That's going to happen in the next few months, right? I heard this is the year we're going to run out of IPv4 addresses...

Slowhand

dynamik wrote: »

That's going to happen in the next few months, right? I heard this is the year we're going to run out of IPv4 addresses...

According to the Mayans, we're not running out of IPv4 addresses for another two years and three months.

Forsaken_GA

dynamik wrote: »

Right, I was actually thinking about that very example, and I agree. Here's what I don't understand though, why isn't VMware considered just another application? Why is vMotion something special when you're essentially just having to prioritize the traffic and ensure there is sufficient throughput?

Well, it's not really. It's just a bandwidth intensive application. It's new for *me*, because vMotion has very specific bandwidth requirements which are apparently much less forgiving than, say, VOIP.

I thought it sounded like he's saying network admins will have to learn about hypervisor administration, storage concepts (LUNs, IOPS, etc.), and so on. These aren't "networking" concepts. He even calls it "converged engineering" and states that its a blend of the three disciplines. Like I said, I just don't understand why that's a networking innovation and other items aren't. It's not important at all; I'm just nitpicking...

No, you read it correctly, that's exactly what he's saying. As those things become more intertwined with network operation, a network engy is going to have to adapt his skillset to support them, the changing demands of business and technology means that a network engineer can't really just focus on networking, skillsets which traditionally aren't in the network paradigm are going to converge and require the admin have at least some familiarity, if not competence with those products (which was why I included it in this post, since it's basically about the concept that you basically have to have some crossover in you want to thrive)

That's going to happen in the next few months, right? I heard this is the year we're going to run out of IPv4 addresses...

hehe, last estimate I heard was May 2011, but that target seems to keep moving.

I honestly don't think ipv6 adoption is going to occur until someone decides to market ipv6 to the end user as a big benefit. If someone can sell that to the end user, then everyone else is going to have to scramble to keep competitive. At this point, it looks like it'll be Comcast, since they've been using ipv6 for years now. And I'm of course talking mostly about the US... asian markets have been making use of ipv6 for years as well, so the West is actually behind in those terms.

ssampier

Another example: This one is not a video game company. It is a company with car dealerships, sports entertainment, and movie theaters.

Programmer/IT Helpdesk/Business Analyst/System Administrator

About the Job

Primary Duties:Title: Programmer/​IT Helpdesk/​Business Analyst/​System Administrator
Reports to: Vice President, IT Applications

· Embed and immerse self in the operations of specific LHM business units to understand user needs and identify opportunities for improvement in business operations and customer service.​
· Perform vendor research to identify software solutions that most closely match business units’ needs.​
· Purchase, install, and configure software applications to be used by business units.​
· Perform custom programming to enhance application functionality and create sophisticated integrations so that many disparate systems are fully integrated with maximum benefit.​
· Develop to and support the overall LHM Data Warehouse which houses all customer data and business transactions across all of our business units.​
Work Breakdown:

· 30%​ Requirements definition and user interaction with company managers and staff
· 20%​ System administration
· 50%​ Programming
Work Location:

The primary work location will be at the Miller Motorsports Park in Tooele, Utah.​ Less-frequent onsite presence will also be required from time-to-time at Energy Solutions Arena in Salt Lake City, Utah; Jordan Commons in Sandy, Utah; and at other business locations inside and outside the state of Utah.​
Ideal Experience and Abilities:

· Bachelor’s degree in information systems, information technology, computer science, or related field or 8 years of equivalent work experience in lieu of a 4 year degree or a combination of work and education to equal a 4 year degree.​
· System administration experience with both Windows and Linux servers.​
· Design, create and support a SQL database; SQL Database design, administration and application development experience is required.​
· Must be able to design, develop, and support web applications
· Programming background with aptitude, interest, and self-motivation to learn new tools and languages quickly and apply the best solution to each task.​ Ability to program in a variety of programming languages; e.​g.​, .​NET, PHP, ColdFusion, Windows and Linux shell scripting.​ Willing and able to learn new programming and database methods.​
· Good project management skills, operating as part of a team organizing, planning, and executing large-scale projects from vision through implementation.​
· Friendly and professional demeanor with strong interpersonal skills to forge relationships of trust at all levels of the organization.​ Must be able to interact professionally with the users of the systems.​
· Must be self-managed, responsive, and dedicated to exceptional customer support.​
· Ability to articulate ideas clearly with exceptional organizational, presentation, and communication skills – both verbal and written.​ (writing samples helpful)

Slowhand

ssampier wrote: »

Work Breakdown:

· 30%​ Requirements definition and user interaction with company managers and staff
· 20%​ System administration
· 50%​ Programming

Sounds like this job would be, "I'm a programmer, why should I learn to be a sysadmin?"

I'm also a big fan of the discussion a little further back on how even related technologies can be so different that they feel like apples and oranges. Personally, I just scored 0% on the designing a VoIP infrastructure portion of a CCDA assessment test. To me, VoIP is like a whole other world from the things I've done, and it's going to be a real challenge for me to learn more about it. (And, to be honest, I never really had much of an interest in it, so that'll make it all that much harder.)

Still, as Forsaken_GA and dynamik mentioned, it's important to keep some perspective and understand how it all can relate. As my former boss used to say during our morning meetings as he'd laugh and drink a cup of coffee, "it's all just f^%ing computer-s#!t".

Slowhand

A former coworker/boss of mine linked this article on Facebook, and I thought it'd be appropriate to share in this thread.

Decoding the Value of Computer Science

I'm a big fan of his comparison of writing to programming, taking a step back from the nitty-gritty details of each skill and looking at the 10,000-foot view of the similarities between them. This goes right along with the discussion above between Forsaken_GA and dynamik, finding some common ground in the types of work we do so we don't always approach new skills to learn feeling like complete newbies.