Dang... now what?

bermovick

A quick background: I'll be 39 this year and live in a small town in a pretty rural area of the midwest. Lots of factories; you get the idea. I've spent the last 7 years doing data processing but lost the job at the beginning of the summer. Just before I'd gotten hired there I had been studying for CCNA certification just because I'd heard it was one of the better certs to have and I wanted to get out of the rut of unskilled physical labor. I'd stopped studying because the data processing job seemed like a great way out, but in retrospect it was just a less physical version of the same thing.

Fortunately, the wife managed to land herself a job within a week of me losing mine, and she suggested I spend the summer watching our daughter and studying to get certs, which I did, and have my CCNA now. I have study materials for CCNP and CCNA:Security and have been waffling between the two (more on that in a moment).

Problem is I go to monster.com or indeed.com and search for -- let's say CCNA.

The search ccna jobs in xxxxxxx, IL xxxxx did not match any jobs

If I search long enough I can eventually find a couple things, but they all want 5-7 years experience as well as a long list of things also required. If I go up to 100 miles I get matches since I'm including St Louis now. Enough of this; you get the idea, there's not much. Maybe I'll grab the nearby cities newspapers tomorrow and see what there is, but I'm not too hopeful.

Also: I'd prefer not getting stuck back into a cubicle, answering phones in a help desk role all day, it's why I've avoided MS certs, although after checking with local school district on helping out/interning there, I see there's server certs where I'd think you'd be avoiding that. The IT guy there does everything, from network to servers, AD and stuff; he even has a SAN running and cables their security cameras.

I'm just not sure what I should do. My studying has tapered off as frustration sets in: "Why bother? There isn't anything here!". Moving isn't really an option right now, it's too expensive to move! Searching for MCITP and MCSA doesn't find much either (unless I again expand the search to 100 miles)

I understand that I'd need to continue studying; that's the 'long view', but my 'short view' (ie NOW!) is suffering and affecting that. Also, from lurking around here I've seen suggestions that early on it's a good idea to treat entry level studying/certs/jobs? like a buffet where you sample it all to see what you like but all my buffet tables look pretty empty.

Have any of you had anything similar & how did you handle that? Also if anyone has ideas on things I haven't tried I'd appreciate it. Getting different perspectives is always good.

Dang.. I wrote a book again, didn't I?

Bl8ckr0uter

IMO:

If you want max marketibility you should probably go for some MS certs and start looking at the contract game in your area. Cisco engineer positions are tough to get into. MS certs will have more universal appeal and if you are trying to break in the field you want to learn a little bit about everything. How is the general (non cisco) job market in your area?

Geetar28

Man I feel your pain.....I've been waffling myself between MS and Cisco...My problem is I want to know it all...and there just ain't enough time with work and home life to read all the freakin' books I have...much less find a job that will allow you to learn it / use it...

I've been reading as much as I can, but like you I wonder if there is much point to it as all there seems to be around this area is what I'm doing (on- site helpdesk stuff)..I think you were smart to check out with the school system about an internship and quite frankly I think doing it all for a smaller shop sounds good. If it came to volunteering, I would do it (even though after 45-50 hours a week I'm pretty well spent..)...there is no substitute for hands on learning/doing.

As far as advice, I may not be the best to give it as I'm facing the same problems, but I think you have a good opportunity to get some studying in and keep at the job hunt (having a wife that is supportive is huge...thank goodness mine is behind me too!!) I'm continuing to put out the resume and keep the eyes and ears open which in the end is all you can do.

Just keep at it and something will eventually come through...stubbornness is really what I think IT is all about... People at my job think I'm some great brain and really what it boils down to is that I'm just too damn stubborn to give up until I get the damn thing fixed!!! Hopefully that attitude will help with the job situation too...Good Luck, You ain't alone.


Damn I wrote a book too. lol.

varelg

I am coming from a small town too and have learned that moving to larger city will change things, as you've noticed larger metropolitan areas offer more IT opportunities. At some point you'll have to decide what are your chances to get a telecomute job and stay in the area you're in now...
And those few job posting websites you look into, they aren't a definitive answer, try to expand your search on sites like craigslist etc.
Location definitely plays a role...

tpatt100

I got my CCNA years ago because work paid for it. Never used it. Once in a while I have to deal with a router but its so infrequent.

bermovick

varelg wrote: »

I am coming from a small town too and have learned that moving to larger city will change things, as you've noticed larger metropolitan areas offer more IT opportunities. At some point you'll have to decide what are your chances to get a telecomute job and stay in the area you're in now...
And those few job posting websites you look into, they aren't a definitive answer, try to expand your search on sites like craigslist etc.
Location definitely plays a role...

True; I forget about craigslist and that regionalhelpwanted site.

I'm about an hour away from a couple bigger cities (Springfield and Decatur, both >100k population), which was where I was expecting to have to drive, but my searches should include both of those...

I guess I'm finding in addition to the experience <--> job paradox, I'm also encountering a location <--> job paradox.

earweed

Like others have said you may need to relocate or at least deal with a commute.

bermovick

knwminus wrote: »

IMO:

If you want max marketibility you should probably go for some MS certs and start looking at the contract game in your area. Cisco engineer positions are tough to get into. MS certs will have more universal appeal and if you are trying to break in the field you want to learn a little bit about everything. How is the general (non cisco) job market in your area?

I'm researching MCSA or MCITP:SA right now, as I'd like to avoid a helpdesk role: I think I read the term 'backoffice' in another thread earlier today. Searching for mcsa and mcse turn up a little bit more (I'm guessing mcitp is too new, as there aren't any matches there), but those hits seem to want like 8 years experience and an Associates (Bachelor's preferred). I know some of the 'required' things aren't actually required but I like to have at least a majority of them before I try. Going to a general 'network administrator' or 'system administrator' gives mostly false positive matches. I have no idea how to even approach this 'contract game' you mention though.

leefdaddy

I'm from central Illinois myself and have been working in IT for about 11 years now. What city are you actually in? I relocated to St. Louis about a year ago and would do it again in a heartbeat. My wife had the opportunity to transfer down here so we went for it!

I might be able to help you out with ideas, let me know where you are. If you don't want to post it shoot me a PM. I worked in Springfield for a couple years before coming down here.

[Deleted User]

I think avoiding the help desk is going to be pretty tough. I do agree with Leefers though, you should definitely consider moving closer to STL. I think the job market in that area is doing okay. As far as the "contract game" get into contact with TekSystems or Apex and see what kind of opportunities they may have available in the St. Louis area. Who knows maybe there is a recruiting firm in your current area. I would just continue searching.

rogue2shadow

xmalachi wrote: »

I think avoiding the help desk is going to be pretty tough. I do agree with Leefers though, you should definitely consider moving closer to STL. I think the job market in that area is doing okay. As far as the "contract game" get into contact with TekSystems or Apex and see what kind of opportunities they may have available in the St. Louis area. Who knows maybe there is a recruiting firm in your current area. I would just continue searching.

I agree but be wary of TekSystems .

[Deleted User]

rogue2shadow wrote: »

I agree but be wary of TekSystems .

If he is looking in the St. Louis area, I can vouch for that TekSystems. I worked for them before and it wasn't a bad experience although I did get laid off 4 months into my contract. I did learn a lot while I was at that job those short 4 months though.

bermovick

TekSystems actually shows things for Bloomington, which is about 1.5 hours according to mapquest (so probably 1h 10m for me). That'll be a painful drive, but if it gets me a job that gives me experience, and I remind myself it's not forever, I wouldn't mind that.

My cousin (who works with servers) also talked about their 'NOC people', which blew my mind, as I'd thought a NOC was like it's own company rather than a department within a large company, which gives me a bit more hope.

If it comes down to it, and I absolutely have to work helpdesk for a while, it wouldn't be the end of the world, it's just something I wouldn't want for long. I'd done helpdesk for a small ISP up near Chicago about 15 years ago while I was going to school. Good job; the type of place where you can be playing online games while waiting for any calls (one of the managers had a naughty-pics site on the side -- having to resize his digital camera images to be modem-friendly was always a fun change of pace)

howiehandles

Unfortunately, its seems that if you don't plan on relocating to a larger area, your options will be limited. Getting as broad a skill set, adding MS certs, will probably be your best option. There is a pretty strong demand for CCNAs in Chicago, where I'm near. I wouldn't worry about all their requirements. Often recruiters will list everything they can fit in the ad, most of which you'll probably either seldom use, or you can learn on the job. I would recommend applying to any job that seems remotely interesting, or you might even be the slightest fit. You'd be surprised how many companies would take a chance on someone who's hungry, or if something else might be available, but hasn't been posted yet.

varelg

bermovick wrote: »

... I'd done helpdesk for a small ISP up near Chicago about 15 years ago...

Aaaah, I can almost hear the familiar modem symphony while it connects to the nearest POP using your home phone line. Modem. Land line. AT commands. IT's T-Rex.:D
Pardon the interruption. You were saying?

Bl8ckr0uter

bermovick wrote: »

I'm researching MCSA or MCITP:SA right now, as I'd like to avoid a helpdesk role: I think I read the term 'backoffice' in another thread earlier today. Searching for mcsa and mcse turn up a little bit more (I'm guessing mcitp is too new, as there aren't any matches there), but those hits seem to want like 8 years experience and an Associates (Bachelor's preferred). I know some of the 'required' things aren't actually required but I like to have at least a majority of them before I try. Going to a general 'network administrator' or 'system administrator' gives mostly false positive matches. I have no idea how to even approach this 'contract game' you mention though.

You probably aren't going to be able to avoid a helpdesk role IMO, nor should you. You are going to have to pay your dues, better to do it at a helpdesk where you would be somewhat protected by a safety net (other techs/tiers). What I mean about contracting was basically trying to call up contracting/recruiting companies (robert half, tek systems, kforce, kelly, etc) and see if they are offering positions. Play with the recruiters (because they will play you for the most part) and make them do some leg work on your behalf. Rule number one is manage them, don't let them manage you. Don't count on them. When you want something, stay on them about it because their mouths write checks that their actions rarely cash out. I am assuming you have simply applied to positions regardless of what the description says correct?

rogue2shadow wrote: »

I agree but be wary of TekSystems .

Honestly I have had nothing but positive interactions with Tek. Robert Half is awful. I honestly am considering opening my own LLC and doing contracting myself. The issue is time more than anything else. But it will be something that I do in the not too distant future.

erpadmin

varelg wrote: »

Aaaah, I can almost hear the familiar modem symphony while it connects to the nearest POP using your home phone line. Modem. Land line. AT commands. IT's T-Rex.:D
Pardon the interruption. You were saying?

Calling the nearest POP? LOL...

I used my modem primarily to call BBSes. I had a Prodigy and AOL account though but most of the time it was the bulletin board (Prodigy and AOL didn't have internet at the time not until later... )

bermovick

knwminus wrote: »

You probably aren't going to be able to avoid a helpdesk role IMO, nor should you. You are going to have to pay your dues, better to do it at a helpdesk where you would be somewhat protected by a safety net (other techs/tiers). What I mean about contracting was basically trying to call up contracting/recruiting companies (robert half, tek systems, kforce, kelly, etc) and see if they are offering positions. Play with the recruiters (because they will play you for the most part) and make them do some leg work on your behalf. Rule number one is manage them, don't let them manage you. Don't count on them. When you want something, stay on them about it because their mouths write checks that their actions rarely cash out. I am assuming you have simply applied to positions regardless of what the description says correct?

Ahh, you're talking about Temp Agencies. Yeah, I need to contact them; I've had pretty good luck in the past with Kelly. Haven't heard of the others before, but will give them a shot too. If I have to do help desk then I'll just have to grin and bear it. Better get some books and start studying for the MCITP exams!

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to rewrite my resume, since it'll pretty much be 2 certs over the summer and same job for 7 years before then. I hate having a resume that only takes up 1/3 of a page.

big ted

like it or not you are going to have to get your foot in the door somewhere, which means help desk. ive been in IT for over 10 years now and there aren't a lot of folks I've run into that started right out in a server admin/network admin. my suggestion would be to get in somewhere, do your time, have a good attitude, show you want to know more and do more and you should move up rather quickly

bermovick

big ted wrote: »

like it or not you are going to have to get your foot in the door somewhere, which means help desk. ive been in IT for over 10 years now and there aren't a lot of folks I've run into that started right out in a server admin/network admin. my suggestion would be to get in somewhere, do your time, have a good attitude, show you want to know more and do more and you should move up rather quickly

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking now. I had heard previously that noc is to networking what help desk is to systems. Noc sounded more interesting than helpdesk (perhaps I'm being naive), but I'm also finding help desk jobs are easier to find than noc stuff. Oh well.