Windows Admins: What are core skills?

Bl8ckr0uter

Howdy!

So as some of you may know I have no plans to certify in windows (at least not anymore, for the moment, maybe lol). I don't want to be completely in the dark about windows especially since my career goals involved security. So my question to the forums are as follows:

What are core windows server skills?
What comprises core windows server admin knowledge?


What are core windows desktop skills
What comprises core windows desktop admin knowledge?

I've done some googling and found a few sites but I wanted to get some admins opinions.

Happy Labor Day Weekend.

earweed

This may be another of your epicly(sp?) long threads.

Edit: I've yet to see just a Windows admin job posted in my area. They all include a lot of other skills.

dynamik

I'd just go over the exam objectives for the client OSes and the MCSE/MCITP:SA/EA tracks. That's everything in a nutshell.

Bl8ckr0uter

dynamik wrote: »

I'd just go over the exam objectives for the client OSes and the MCSE/MCITP:SA/EA tracks. That's everything in a nutshell.

That's actually what I am doing now. I think I can cover them all with a Mastering Windows Server book and maybe a book on PKI and group policy.

dynamik

Do you to know for general knowledge or for exam prep? The massive all-encompassing books do not go into enough depth for the exams, if that matters to you.

Check out the Inside-Out books: Amazon.com: Windows Server 2008 Inside Out (9780735624382): William R. Stanek: Books

They have them for 2003, 7, etc.

Bl8ckr0uter

dynamik wrote: »

Do you to know for general knowledge or for exam prep? The massive all-encompassing books do not go into enough depth for the exams, if that matters to you.

Check out the Inside-Out books: Amazon.com: Windows Server 2008 Inside Out (9780735624382): William R. Stanek: Books

They have them for 2003, 7, etc.

Just for general knowledge. I believe your advice was dead on. I decided that since I don't feel like doing the MCSE/MCITP :EA, I shouldn't half (or quarter) ass it with the MCSA/MCITP:SA. I just need a few good books to strength my windows knowledge for the purposes of doing the Windows security objectives of the GSEC/SSCP

it_consultant

Follow a Windows admin around for a week. You have to be ready to troubleshoot a printer, scanner, digital camera, iPod, wireless, laptops, desktops, servers, SQL, Exchange (03,07,10), basic Cisco stuff (you would knock that out of the park), firewalls, spam filters, web filters, DNS, DHCP, permissions (share and NTFS), imaging, outlook, virus, anti-virus / anti-spam, phones (analog, digital, cellular, VOIP), Win 2k - Win 7, Server 2k - 2k8R2, domain controllers, group policy, scripts, where the heck the outlook OST - signature files - and NK2 quick pick files are located on each rendition of windows, iTunes, line of business applications, Macs, VPN (branch office and SSL) using whatever firewall is in front of you (Sonicwall, WG, Cisco), Dell Rack Servers, PERC Cards, HP rack servers, SANs (iSCSI,FC), direct attached (shared SCSI) storage, LDAP authentication, 3rd party LDAP integration to windows DCs, MSCHAPv2, IPsec, I am sure I am missing a few.

These are all things I do on a regular basis. I am a subject matter expert on Exchange, Windows, and most firewalls, I am competent on Cisco equipment. Many Windows guys only need to be competent in Exchange (thats my niche) and many don't know crap about Cisco. I get a lot of that since I am a consultant.

Its a seriously weird conflation of enterprise hardware and software, consumer crap, help desk, and networking.

Bl8ckr0uter

Right now I am technically an admin although we only use a few technologies (Exchange, SQL, etc). I was just wondering what the core skills someone who is puts on their resume "administered the windows network" should have so I don't have this gap between my resume and my actual skills.

it_consultant

In your case, you would probably want to say you managed and maintained a Windows Server based network with SQL and Exchange. If you put the network in or if you did a major upgrade of SQL or Exchange you could say "Architected" or "Designed" which would indicate a much higher prowess than "managed".

Then I would put a few of your daily tasks: managed backups, troubleshot minor to moderate problems, etc. in order to give an idea of what your actual experience is.

My resume is backwards from yours, the bulk of my experience is in Windows - architect level. My Cisco stuff is more of technician level, I am pretty good at them but I don't want anyone to think that I am doing core routing and switching at an ISP or any of that jazz.

Bl8ckr0uter

it_consultant wrote: »

My resume is backwards from yours, the bulk of my experience is in Windows - architect level. My Cisco stuff is more of technician level, I am pretty good at them but I don't want anyone to think that I am doing core routing and switching at an ISP or any of that jazz.

That actually is one of the reasons why I decided on not doing MS certs. I didn't want anyone to think I was a huge active directory/exchange/sql server guy. I want to focus on networking and linux so I just decided to go that route. If it backfires I will quickly pick up some MS certs but I think I should be ok after doing some research on job roles.

RobertKaucher

knwminus wrote: »

That actually is one of the reasons why I decided on not doing MS certs. I didn't want anyone to think I was a huge active directory/exchange/sql server guy. I want to focus on networking and linux so I just decided to go that route. If it backfires I will quickly pick up some MS certs but I think I should be ok after doing some research on job roles.

May I say I told you so?

dynamik

RobertKaucher wrote: »

May I say I told you so?

No, because he said my advice was dead one. You can go suck it

Bl8ckr0uter

dynamik wrote: »

No, because he said my advice was dead one. You can go suck it

It is both of you. Dyn for the "Do MCSE or don't waste your time" and Rob for the 80/20 rule. I figure that I should just certify in what I feel the audience I am aiming for once. I can get windows experience without certifying. Most of the contractor/DOD jobs I have been eyeballing don't want MS certs (nor do they want LPI for that matter). Mostly cisco and SANS. So that is what I am going for and if the market demands for me to get MS certified, I will.

EDIT: One thing that someone else told me in a PM is most people don't have as many certs as the guys and gals (We need more women here. Seriously.) on here. It is sometimes hard to remember that since I am on here so much. You folks are monsters/masters of certification and I'd like to say that I want to keep up with you guys (DYN) but I can't and it is mostly ego. I really have no desire to get that much alphabet soup behind my name. I just want a few things that really matter and get myself to 6 figures lol. But of course that's what everyone wants right?

earweed

You may not get certified but you can't completely avoid "the dark side"

Bl8ckr0uter

earweed wrote: »

You may not get certified but you can't completely avoid "the dark side"

I wouldn't say I want to completely. I just don't feel like I need the certs. At least that's how I feel now.

rwmidl

knwminus wrote: »

It is both of you. Dyn for the "Do MCSE or don't waste your time" and Rob for the 80/20 rule. I figure that I should just certify in what I feel the audience I am aiming for once. I can get windows experience without certifying. Most of the contractor/DOD jobs I have been eyeballing don't want MS certs (nor do they want LPI for that matter). Mostly cisco and SANS. So that is what I am going for and if the market demands for me to get MS certified, I will.

There are quite a few DoD jobs that do want MCSE, more so 2003. I've seen maybe a handful looking for MCTS/MCITP:XX - but I'm attributing that to it's still relatively new. If the scope of the contract requires a MCSE then that will certainly be asked for/required. I talked to a recruiter back in December on a position that required an MCSE. He told me I was one of the few applicants who applied who met the requirement -most applicants did not have their MCSE, and thus they were thrown out.

As for SANS, I haven't seen it that much(more Security + and CISSP) but with the push for DoD 8570 compliance I'm sure the demand will pick up for SANS. SANS tends to be out of reach for most due to the cost of taking the boot camp/test, unless your employer is picking up the tab.

It all boils down to what you are wanting to do

Bl8ckr0uter

rwmidl wrote: »

There are quite a few DoD jobs that do want MCSE, more so 2003. I've seen maybe a handful looking for MCTS/MCITP:XX - but I'm attributing that to it's still relatively new. If the scope of the contract requires a MCSE then that will certainly be asked for/required. I talked to a recruiter back in December on a position that required an MCSE. He told me I was one of the few applicants who applied who met the requirement -most applicants did not have their MCSE, and thus they were thrown out.

As for SANS, I haven't seen it that much(more Security + and CISSP) but with the push for DoD 8570 compliance I'm sure the demand will pick up for SANS. SANS tends to be out of reach for most due to the cost of taking the boot camp/test, unless your employer is picking up the tab.

It all boils down to what you are wanting to do

Really? I have seen quite the opposite but I guess it depends on which DOD jobs you are looking for. I have been looking in the "networking" type positions not sysadmin.

Just for kicks:

USAJOBS - Search Jobs

Here is the exact type of job I would like, but I don't have the chops yet:

https://tas-accenture.taleo.net/careersection/10003/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=647090&src=JB-11540

I actually have this printed off as a goal. To get to this level of network security knowledge.

EDIT: I see you have GSEC. I have to ask, you don't think that has improved you CV/Resume any? I also see you are going for GCIH, do you think it will be "worth" it? I am just curious. This isn't aimed at you but several people have told me that I *must* get windows certifications to make it-- in life. I am just wondering how true that is? After some soul searching, I don't believe this is true but I have to wonder what you think? Just curious.

rwmidl

Fed jobs, from what I've found, can be a little vague in their requirements. I was talking strictly from a contracting perspective. But then again, I have a sys admin background so what I looked for was different.

The only reason I'm working on my MCITP: EA is W2K is EOL'd (that is what my MCSE is in). I never upgraded to 2003, never saw the reason. The big push now, as I said, is making sure you are DoD 8570 compliant.

earweed

knwminus wrote: »

https://tas-accenture.taleo.net/careersection/10003/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=647090&src=JB-11540

I actually have this printed off as a goal. To get to this level of network security knowledge.

EDIT: I see you have GSEC. I have to ask, you don't think that has improved you CV/Resume any? I also see you are going for GCIH, do you think it will be "worth" it?

So for this goal you need more Juniper experience and a BS

Bl8ckr0uter

earweed wrote: »

So for this goal you need more Juniper experience and a BS

Yea. I actually applied for the job and they basically said no, oh and do you have any friends who are better than you They said that the juniper thing was important but the SANS stuff is critical (the job is for a major bank here in Cincy). I just need more experience overall and I don't think I am going to get the experience I want by dilly dallying with stuff that isn't what I want to go into. I don't want to be a generalist. Or a DBA. Or a programmer. Or an bearstronaut. Why would a mess around with any of these if that isn't my end goal.

The degree thing is annoying too. This time next year I should have A+, N+, S+, L+, CCNA, CCNA:Sec, LPIC-1, and GSEC with an A.A.S in Network Engineering but I won't have a BS. That could be a problem. I also don't see myself enrolling in a program into winter 2011/2012 as well. That could be a problem as well. I really need to find a decent online B+M school. I'd like to go to OSU if the government will allow pay for me to go to a CAE but we will see. I know a few people who work for the government and degrees are kind of a big deal. I basically need to network with someone at a professional organization and try to find my in.

colemic

Degrees are a VERY big deal to the gov., as is knowing the right people... but even if you know the right people, a lot of times you can't even get that level where they would have some pull if you don't have a degree or relevant experience. I am wanting to go gov as well and its a mofo not knowing anyone in the area I want to go to... and by mofo I mean I have been referred for a few positions past the initial screening but have yet to be contacted for an interview.

it_consultant

earweed wrote: »

You may not get certified but you can't completely avoid "the dark side"

HA! I was about to write "Welcome to the Darkside" on this post until I came across this entry. Its not so bad in the "evil empire" of MS products and certs

"Or an bearstronaut..." you guys are killing me right now!

Bl8ckr0uter

*Bump*

Want to see if anyone has any new input.

Mojo_666

knwminus wrote: »

*Bump*

Want to see if anyone has any new input.

Core skills are AD, ADIDNS, DHCP, GPO's, NTFS, TCP/IP but you add a billion other things to this depending on the recruiter but this lot pretty much always features, although they never specify to what level, most recruiters have no idea about AD or know what AD really does.

Truth be told according to most places if you can manage users you know AD, another harsh truth is that most places will not have a domain/AD specialist, they will have their designated, Network, Exchange, citrix, vmware "expert" but as they all know "AD" as per my statement there is no need for someone who actually knows AD.