Cert + no proven exp = backfire?

coffee_adict

Hey guys!
I've been reading around the forums for a while, but never actually registered. Well, here I am.

I thought I would post this on general certification, because its a general question after all. It may sound silly for some you, but its a real concern to me.

This year (2010) I'm finishing my three year course as a network technologist. I already have a LPIC-1 and a CCNA, and I'm studying for LPIC-2 right now which I'll probably get before I graduate.

Next year after my graduation I'll aply to Junior system administration positions. I've got some contacts and I'll probably land an interview somewhere.

The thing is, I have no way to actually prove sysadmin experience (no preview employment contract, just freelance here and there) which I have to some extent. It isn't much experience, but I'm far from a total rookie. That's why I pursued certs in the first place, to be able to prove something.

Does anyone think that decent certifications and no proven experience could actually be viewed negatively by some companies? Or is it something unlikely?

Has anyone even been on a similar position?

What would you guys suggest for someone in my position?

Thanks in advance for any reply!

jovan88

some people may say so, but the way i see it - you're better off with certs and no experience than no certs and no experience

coffee_adict

jovan88 wrote: »

some people may say so, but the way i see it - you're better off with certs and no experience than no certs and no experience

Thanks for the reply Jovan!
Yeah, that's the way I see it as well.

rogue2shadow

It really depends on the employer. If you've never done helpdesk, it might be the place to start (if the junior sys admin positions hit the wall). Its kind of like IT initiation; most people run through it for about a year or two but it gets you in the door. From there you can spring the fact that you have the Linux and Cisco certs and if something opens up on a junior level, there's a decent chance you could be up for it.

earweed

rogue2shadow wrote: »

It really depends on the employer. If you've never done helpdesk, it might be the place to start (if the junior sys admin positions hit the wall). Its kind of like IT initiation; most people run through it for about a year or two but it gets you in the door. From there you can spring the fact that you have the Linux and Cisco certs and if something opens up on a junior level, there's a decent chance you could be up for it.

+1 Also if you do get stuck at the helpdesk for a while keep working on obtaining new skills (with or without the certs) to help you get that Jr. Admin position.

Edit: Welcome to TE! Don't forget toenter your certs in the details under your user name.

erpadmin

Keep in mind too that a lot of what you'll learn is going to be on the job. Certs/academics get you through the door. Your competence keeps you inside. Learn all you can, volunteer for the stuff no one wants to do and just stay hungry. If you can land a Jr. Sys Admin position, then congratulations, you got to bypass the help desk. Do that for about a year or two, and always keep learning. Before you know it, you'll be able to take Jr. in the front of that title and after a couple more years add a Sr.

Stay positive, stay focus and stay hungry. The day you become complacent is the day you and your skills become obsolete.

Technito

It definitely will vary company to company. Some companies highly value certifications even without experience, and some just don't. But in either case, a certification just shows you have some knowledge of whatever you're certified in. I think you're doing the right thing by pursuing jr roles. Your certifications should get you in a position to where you can get in front of an employer and prove what you know. And when you do start working, it's important to still proceed with your certification tracks. And most importantly don't get too comfortable in a role where you're not consistently being challenged and learning new skills for too long. As your skills change, you should first see if it's possible to utilize those skills and or advance within the company. If not, move on to a more technical role with another company. I understand in today's market it is competitive and most people want to hold on to whatever they can get. But it's just the worst thing is to get stuck working in an entry level position for years and years. Because when you're not putting your skillsets to use, you'll forget what you've learned.

Dr IT

Certs are definitely a big plus . As for any company will rather hire a candidate with cert rather than the one without the cert s. So heads up and keep pushing on your certs as they will help

As for Experience - try to do some volunteering if you can find one ...

Good Luck

dynamik

There's nothing wrong as long as the certs are relatively entry-level. You're going to look ridiculous if you get professional or expert level certifications without any real-world experience.

Also, be sure not to do so much that you start forgetting a lot of the things you've done previously. If you're asked CCNA-level questions during an interview, and you've obtained a dozen other certs but haven't touched anything related to Cisco for a year or two, how well do you think you're going to do? If that's the case, what's the point of getting certified? Just be reasonable and keep things fresh, and you'll be fine.

Psoasman

dynamik wrote: »

There's nothing wrong as long as the certs are relatively entry-level. You're going to look ridiculous if you get professional or expert level certifications without any real-world experience.

Also, be sure not to do so much that you start forgetting a lot of the things you've done previously. If you're asked CCNA-level questions during an interview, and you've obtained a dozen other certs but haven't touched anything related to Cisco for a year or two, how well do you think you're going to do? If that's the case, what's the point of getting certified? Just be reasonable and keep things fresh, and you'll be fine.

+1 You might have to start with Help Desk / Technician level work, but that will gain you the needed experience. I started working as a tech with the MCP and some CompTIA certs. I finished the MCSE:Security on my own at work using extra computers at work, when we had downtime. I was fortunate to have one of my bosses be my instructor at the school where I was studying.
I am also finding soft skills are at least as important working as a tech, as having solid technical skills.
cert + some proven experience + networking = job offer

coffee_adict

Thank you all for the great feedback!

Yes! I'm not afraid of volunteering and doing stuff no one wants. I like to be out of my comfort zone and I'm always hungry. Good things rarely come easy. What bothers me is lack of challenge, but that's another book. Either way, if things are getting too easy a siren always goes off inside my head. I also plan on getting more certs after I get that job.

I hope to come back to this thread six months from now and give a virtual six pack of beer to all you guys.

it_consultant

We don't see a lot of LPICs here, good for you. In your situation your certs will help you get in the door AND when you go to move on in your career you are less likely to get stuck doing something you have no interest in. If a position opens in your company that needs linux knowledge they would say "Coffee addict knows something about linux, maybe we should see if hes up for it". I have seen it happen.

Bl8ckr0uter

Welcome!!!

First of all congrats on the LPIC-1 and CCNA. Neither one of those are easy. I am going for my LPIC-1 and I can tell it is going to be an interesting journey. Here is my 0.02 about the situation. Put the freelance work on your resume and start looking for NOC/Network Tech jobs. Linux/Networking go hand and hand and knowing both will make you a different asset than Joe MCSA. That said the number of linux jobs is much lower than the number of MS jobs thus making Linux certifications less known as other certs. Cisco jobs are also difficult to jump into, especially now. My advice is that you are 100 sure about doing LPIC-2 I suggest you start applying for jobs now and try to get some windows experience. I have decided that I am going to focus on learning on MS technologies but I don't think I am going to certify. If you do certify, check out the student discounts such as dreamspark and second shot listings so you can get your moneys worth.

Michael.J.Palmer

I guess my only question would be is it completely out of the question for you to do any IT work while you're in school? Even if it's not sys admin related, you're still better off to have some IT experience over none. A lot of jobs you'll interview for may be tier 2/3 level positions out of school so it'll look good if you've got some teir 1 experience or at the very least if you have some work experience proving you have the ability to interact with end-users and help resolve issues.

Check around locally, there could be some part-time positions open that you might be able to land and that'll look better on your resume than no experience. Just remember, even if it's not experience for the exact same position you're looking to apply for, it's still IT experience.

Paul Boz

It can be argued that I was certainly extremely over-certified in the Cisco department when I left my first job (compared to the experience I had), so I took a job in a sector of IT where my certs were well-respected but didn't get used all the time. It allowed me to hone those skills while learning new ones. For example, I didn't actually configure Cisco devices in my last job, but audited the configuration of clients' devices. Having abstract networking knowledge helped me immensely as well. I have a pretty unique situation but wanted to prove anecdotal evidence that you can over-certify and still work your way up.

spartangtr

Here's an article I think that's worth reading for you.

Opinion: Certification matters - Experience less so - Part 1 ? My Etherealmind

RobertKaucher

spartangtr wrote: »

Here's an article I think that's worth reading for you.

Opinion: Certification matters - Experience less so - Part 1 ? My Etherealmind

I agree with a lot of what that article says, but he really needs an editor.

N2IT

dynamik wrote: »

There's nothing wrong as long as the certs are relatively entry-level. You're going to look ridiculous if you get professional or expert level certifications without any real-world experience.

Also, be sure not to do so much that you start forgetting a lot of the things you've done previously. If you're asked CCNA-level questions during an interview, and you've obtained a dozen other certs but haven't touched anything related to Cisco for a year or two, how well do you think you're going to do? If that's the case, what's the point of getting certified? Just be reasonable and keep things fresh, and you'll be fine.

I couldn't agree more with this. Sound real world advice.

Think quality not quantity.

My two cents would be grab one or two certs that you are interested in and if you haven't done the work grab entry level ones until you get real world experience.