MCITP: SA...now what?

pham0329

I have been working in IT for the past 3+ years. The first half of that have been in help desk type roles with the rest coming from software development/sys admin. I have my A+, Network+, 70-640, 70-642, and plan on passing the 70-646 on Wednesday. Assuming all goes well and I get my MCITP: SA...I'm not sure where to go from there. I seems to have 3 options

1) MCITP: EA - is it worth it to go for the EA if I have an SA?
2) MCSE - again, is it worth it to spend the time in obtaining the MSCE if I'm already an MCITP?
3) CCNA - I'm kind of leaning towards this one.

Any insights on what would be the best option?

Bl8ckr0uter

What do you do at your job and what do you want to do?

earweed

You still need the client potion either the 70-620, 70-624, or 70-680 to get the MCITP:SA
1) depends on what you want to do. If it's networking then the SA should be enough to turn heads combined with the CCNA. If you lean more toward system Admin then get the MCITP:EA.
2) You may just want to learn what the differences are between Server 2008 and Server 2003 so that if you work with 2003 you wont be too lost. Getting the cert, probably not.
3) It couldn't hurt no matter what direction you go in.

Michael.J.Palmer

My school curriculum has me getting the MCTIP: SA and I basically planned to go this route.

MCITP: SA by October, Network+ a few weeks after that, self-study for Security+ before end of year (so I can get the lifetime cert). Next year I've already enrolled to do the CCNA course at the school I'm currently enrolled in so I'll be persuing my CCNA but either before I take those courses or afterwards I plan to self-study for the MCITP: EA (since I only need to take two certs after I get my SA to get it, might as well go for it).

That seems like a pretty solid plan for anyone so I'd probably suggest you going for number 1 and 3 on your list. As the guy above said, the CCNA never hurts and it gives you the option of either going the sys admin route or the network admin route if you choose to branch out. I personally feel that it never hurts you in your job search if you're a sys admin with a pretty decent network knowledge as well, or if you're a network admin with a pretty decent windows systems knowledge. Either one should help you get a job anywhere in this market.

pham0329

earweed wrote: »

You still need the client potion either the 70-620, 70-624, or 70-680 to get the MCITP:SA
1) depends on what you want to do. If it's networking then the SA should be enough to turn heads combined with the CCNA. If you lean more toward system Admin then get the MCITP:EA.
2) You may just want to learn what the differences are between Server 2008 and Server 2003 so that if you work with 2003 you wont be too lost. Getting the cert, probably not.
3) It couldn't hurt no matter what direction you go in.

I believe the SA only requires the 70-640, 642, and 646. The client exam is only required for the EA. I think I agree with your on #2...I'll probably just go over the material/watch the CBT nugget course for the MSCE.

Right now, I'm working in a managed service company. For those who are not familiar with the term, we basically provide IT support for companies who does not have an IT dept. So basically, I, along with others on the team, are sys admin for our clients. I, along with one other, are also sys admin for our own company. Most of the work revolves around MS. Some companies have Watchguards or SonicWall but most are small enough that they get by with consumer grade routers so there's no real need for cisco knowledge.

However, I have dabbled in cisco in the past and was very interested in it. I'm just not quite sure if the EA would be worth it or if I should just go for the CCNA. So basically, I guess my question is

MCITP:SA + CCNA or
MCITP:EA

I don't plan on leaving my current position anytime soon so there's no immediate need for a CCNA. At the same time, an EA seems like an overkill for the small/medium size companies that we'll be supporting. The knowledge that I'll pick up from that probably wouldn't apply to my current job.

za3bour

I would get MCITP-EA first then go for CCNA

Hyper-Me

EA

7chars

earweed

@pham0329- yeah you don't need the client for the SA. So you'll need 3 additional exams for the EA. If you're pretty confident that you want to stay where you're at then the EA may be overkill. The CCNA may be a good route to take though in case you do encounter some medium size places that have Cisco. Are you thinking of going the one or two exam route for the CCNA?

mikedisd2

Take a break from tech exams and do ITIL Foundations while you decide what to do next. Recruiters dig it.

NinjaBoy

pham0329 wrote: »

I have been working in IT for the past 3+ years. The first half of that have been in help desk type roles with the rest coming from software development/sys admin.

pham0329 wrote: »

1) MCITP: EA - is it worth it to go for the EA if I have an SA?

Do you actually design 2008 AD environments? If no, then I would say forget about the EA for now and concentrate on other certs/gaining more experience.

pham0329 wrote: »

2) MCSE - again, is it worth it to spend the time in obtaining the MSCE if I'm already an MCITP?

Again it depends on what you do in your job. Do you work with 2003 or just 2008? Do you design 2k3 domains/forests or do the day to day administration of the servers? If you do the day to day admin and work with 2003 and not the design of AD, then the MCSA would be a better bet for you.

pham0329 wrote: »

3) CCNA - I'm kind of leaning towards this one.

Do you administer Cisco kit? Cisco certs needs to renewed every 3 years - will it be a waste?

-Ken

pham0329

@NinjaBoy

I've not had to design an AD environment. Most of the work have been administering these environment. Unless we take on a brand new company, I doubt I would have to design an AD infrastructure from scratch.

I work with both 2003/2008...but mainly 2003. Also, I don't administer Cisco equipment at all. We don't have too many clients that are on Cisco. However, I've always been interested in Cisco and I think it would be to my benefits to get some Cisco knowledge. Realistically, if were to get a MCITP: EA or CCNA, neither of those certs would apply too much to my current situation. However, I don't want to just stay with the SA as work reimburse me for the certs!

Hyper-Me

Certs are about positioning yourself for new or better positions, in conjunction with gaining knowledge. Personally, I don't see any reason to stick with a "middle-ground" cert like the SA when the EA is very obtainable.

Who gets paid more and garners more respect...the guy who designed the engine, or the guy that changes the oil in the engine?

erpadmin

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Personally, I don't see any reason to stick with a "middle-ground" cert like the SA when the EA is very obtainable.

You are right, one doesn't have to bother with an SA cert after obtaining a EA cert. However, since it's just one test, I plan on doing it anyway, just because I can. No reason why I can't show two certs...(in my case, 3 when I'm done with the 2K8 SQL Server Exams as well....and MAYBE 4 if I get the MCITP: VA cert....the jury is still deliberating on that one though.)

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Who gets paid more and garners more respect...the guy who designed the engine, or the guy that changes the oil in the engine?

That's a bit unfair btw. In this particular case that we're discussing, after you "design your engine", whether you have an SA or not, you are going to "change the oil" as well. It's not like you're going to design an AD domain, implement it and then call it a day.......lmao!

pham0329

Looks like everyone seems to think that it should be EA, then CCNA. Guess I'll start on the 70-643 since that seems way more interesting than the 70-647.

Out of curiousity...how often does one actually design an AD infrastructure? Unless you're a contracter or consultant, I would think that it wouldn't be that often?

RobertKaucher

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Certs are about positioning yourself for new or better positions, in conjunction with gaining knowledge. Personally, I don't see any reason to stick with a "middle-ground" cert like the SA when the EA is very obtainable.

Who gets paid more and garners more respect...the guy who designed the engine, or the guy that changes the oil in the engine?

I am going to preface my comments by saying that I hold the MCITP: EA and I do not hold the MCITP: SA.

I don't think this statement is very accurate, Hyper-Me. I’m not saying you are wrong, mind you. The reason being it implicitly oversimplifies the situation into a common fallacy: higher level cert = more money. This simply is not true. If the OP were in fact trying to decide on to different job offers, one involved in designing or architecting corporate AD environments and the other as a server administrator, I would agree. But that is not the case. My personal opinion about certification is that it should accurately represent your career aspirations and experience.

Considering time and financial limitations it might be better to get the SA and then complete the other certifications giving yourself a broad level of knowledge and certs for your resume and then move on to the higher level Enterprise Admin certification once you have completed broader, more strategic career objectives. However, I think Hyper-Me will agree with me that once that foundation is set and you want to move up getting the higher-level cert will be a component of that.

pham0329 wrote: »

Looks like everyone seems to think that it should be EA, then CCNA. Guess I'll start on the 70-643 since that seems way more interesting than the 70-647.

Out of curiousity...how often does one actually design an AD infrastructure? Unless you're a contracter or consultant, I would think that it wouldn't be that often?

Not very often. If you aren't a consultant specializin in AD design and architecture and you find yourself doing it a lot, you are doing it wrong. But OU design is something that you might find yourself doing a lot of, depending on your environment.

My only question is where do you see yourself in 5 years? You say you are not going to be leaving your current company, so I imagine that certification is a way to gain increased responsability at your current job. Is that the case?

Hyper-Me

erpadmin wrote: »

That's a bit unfair btw. In this particular case that we're discussing, after you "design your engine", whether you have an SA or not, you are going to "change the oil" as well. It's not like you're going to design an AD domain, implement it and then call it a day.......lmao!

Actually it happens every day. It's called consulting and its arguably where the real money is, in this industry.

It's no cake walk, though. As I find out myself every single day (and im just doing SMBs).

I will say that im 99% certain me having the EA is what landed me this job. My boss was speecifically looking for people with the higher end certifications and who had worked in large-scale environments.

The EA isnt an MCM, MCA, or CCIE....its terribly obtainable. I just don't see any reason not to get it if you already have done 640+642 (at which point youve probably done a client exam, as well)

pham0329

RobertKaucher wrote: »

My only question is where do you see yourself in 5 years? You say you are not going to be leaving your current company, so I imagine that certification is a way to gain increased responsability at your current job. Is that the case?

Yes and no. I'm going through the certification process as a way to move up at my current job, but also to futher my knowledge of the technology and increase my marketability. As far as where I see myself in 5 years, I'm not sure. I'm still deciding on whether I want to be on the server side, or networking side. I like both and have a hard time picking one over the other.

erpadmin

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Actually it happens every day. It's called consulting and its arguably where the real money is, in this industry.

A good number of us (I'm a proud member of this group) enjoy the stability of a 9-x (it's hardly EVER 9-5 for me) job that doesn't require the 1099 and/or working at multiple clients. The fact that you have a boss though tells me you work in a job shop. Nothing wrong with that, but the "real money" is when YOU get the hourly rate your client pays your boss/company.....as opposed to the 1/3 or 1/4 of the rate you get (if you are getting $100/hr, for example....your company is seeing 4-5 times that amount, easy just for you and whomever else to be there).

Hyper-Me wrote: »

It's no cake walk, though. As I find out myself every single day (and im just doing SMBs).

No it is not a cake walk. I've met consultants who lead very lonely existances, are away from their families for x-amount of time, will get attached to at least one employee at their client until they move on to the next one (I do have a story about that one, but that's another day....she was cute though... ). The point is that you are right. There is significant money to be made (AGAIN, when it's YOU that's setting and getting the rate....), but at what cost?! It's definitely a game for the young/unattached.

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I will say that im 99% certain me having the EA is what landed me this job. My boss was speecifically looking for people with the higher end certifications and who had worked in large-scale environments.

I don't doubt it...I plan on earning the EA as well. But if I only need one extra exam to give me an SA, then I don't mind knocking that out. Do I need it, no....but it's not going to entirely hurt me if I get it, so I might as well knock it out. It's one more cert I can put on my resume...yeah the EA encompasses that, but a potential employer might appreciate the extra effort if I have to explain why I have the SA as well. This is based on the fact that someone else from here, (Cablegod, I believe) who knocked out the 646 after he obtained his EA requirements...and he didn't need to. Same with me and probably a few others as well.

Hyper-Me wrote: »

The EA isnt an MCM, MCA, or CCIE....its terribly obtainable. I just don't see any reason not to get it if you already have done 640+642 (at which point youve probably done a client exam, as well)

The EA Requirements are the 640, 642, 643, 647 and 680. With a 646, you will also have a SA. I definitely would agree on shooting for the EA first and then, if still wanted, getting the SA.

Hyper-Me

erpadmin wrote: »

A good number of us (I'm a proud member of this group) enjoy the stability of a 9-x (it's hardly EVER 9-5 for me) job that doesn't require the 1099 and/or working at multiple clients. The fact that you have a boss though tells me you work in a job shop. Nothing wrong with that, but the "real money" is when YOU get the hourly rate your client pays your boss/company.....as opposed to the 1/3 or 1/4 of the rate you get (if you are getting $100/hr, for example....your company is seeing 4-5 times that amount, easy just for you and whomever else to be there).

No it is not a cake walk. I've met consultants who lead very lonely existances, are away from their families for x-amount of time, will get attached to at least one employee at their client until they move on to the next one

I work 8-5, with very little after hours or weekend work simply because we charge doubletime for that and most places don't want to pay it unless its critical. I'm on call one weekend a month, and again noone ever uses it because its pricey; most issues can wait til monday. I would say my job is secure, its definitely not "feast or famine" as we have a solid client base and only take new ones based on referral.

Sure, I work for a company, but i've only been in this industry ~3.75 years. Considering how far i've come in that timeframe, I don't feel too shabby about what im doing right now. I know the company gets 4-5 times what im making as the hourly raate, but thats just business. I don't think I have enough business smarts yet to run my own company, nor the vast amount of experience one needs to cover EVERY aspect of a companies infrastructure. In the end im still making more than what most in-house IT department people are being paid in this area, so it works for me. What I was actually talking about when I said consulting wasn't essy is that you don't get thet pleasure of knowing the systems inside and out as you would if you were in-house. You have to work into a client (new or old) and basicaly figure out everything they have and FAST, because its unethical to bill them for the time it takes you to figure out what they have, if it takes you a long time.


My advice is still go for the EA. I wouldn't bother with the SA in any capacity (unless maybe I had a voucher for that specific test). As an employer (or a coworker) i'd see someone as more valuable if they had the MCITP:EA and an Exchange 07 MCTS, rather than the EA & SA.

erpadmin

Hyper-Me wrote: »

My advice is still go for the EA. I wouldn't bother with the SA in any capacity (unless maybe I had a voucher for that specific test). As an employer (or a coworker) i'd see someone as more valuable if they had the MCITP:EA and an Exchange 07 MCTS, rather than the EA & SA.

The SA was never getting stopped there. I also plan on obtaining the SQL Server 2008 Database designation as well. I'm a SQL Server DBA as well (production is 2000, but we're upgrading to 2005 (yes, 2005, but we'll upgrade to 2008 at a later date....it's management's call right now for stability issues). That's another reason I'm labbing...to create a mini PeopleSoft environment with SQL Server 2008 installed.

To the OP, I do agree with Hyper-Me on keeping going with the EA and then whatever other MS cert (Exchange, SQL Server, etc.) that might interest you. However, I don't think it's an unsellable cert though....if you can keep going, it would behoove you to do so.

And at this point in the game, it's not worth going back to MCSE, despite what others may say and have said. If I have experience (and I do) in Windows 2003 technologies, I can certainly sell that. The MCITP:EA cert is just to show that I finally decided to get on ball with MS certification. In two-three years time, it will be a retired cert anyway.

pham0329

Well, I passed the 70-646. Officially an MCITP: SA...that exam was probably the easiest exam I've taken in my life.

I'll go with with everyone suggested and continue towards the EA but I figured I take the SA as well as a middle of the road cert. That way, I have something to show before I get an EA.

rogue2shadow

pham0329 wrote: »

Well, I passed the 70-646. Officially an MCITP: SA...that exam was probably the easiest exam I've taken in my life.

I'll go with with everyone suggested and continue towards the EA but I figured I take the SA as well as a middle of the road cert. That way, I have something to show before I get an EA.

Congrats man!!!

earweed

Congrats on getting the MCITP:SA!
Now you've got the other 3 exams to tackle for the EA (70-643, 70-680, and 70-647)