MotherBoard

MentholMoose

I have a couple of white boxes I built with Super Micro PDSME+ motherboards. It's an older motherboard but everything works just fine with ESX 3.5, 4.0, and 4.1. There's no onboard RAID so I used some cheap LSI SAS/SATA RAID cards from eBay. I was not concerned with fast local storage though since I built another a SAN/NAS server using OpenFiler.

Bl8ckr0uter

Cool. I am trying to keep my startup cost to about 600 (more) dollars. I think I can manage that. I think ....

tiersten

Your main requirements are that it has a massive amount of RAM. Any recent fast processor should be fine if you're just doing a lab. Add in whatever you need for storage and the requirements are fairly minimal for starting your lab. Your main thing is to make sure everything is on the HCL.

As MentholMoose said, you should check that those specific Marvell NICs are supported. I'd recommend the Intel EtherExpress PCIe cards as well.

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

Your main requirements are that it has a massive amount of RAM. Any recent fast processor should be fine if you're just doing a lab. Add in whatever you need for storage and the requirements are fairly minimal for starting your lab. Your main thing is to make sure everything is on the HCL.

As MentholMoose said, you should check that those specific Marvell NICs are supported. I'd recommend the Intel EtherExpress PCIe cards as well.

Do you think something DDR2 based would serve my needs? I could get more ram and more processor for my buck but when I want to upgrade I will need a new mobo.

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

Do you think something DDR2 based would serve my needs? I could get more ram and more processor for my buck but when I want to upgrade I will need a new mobo.

DDR2 will be fine. How likely are you to actually upgrade the system apart from adding RAM? People always say that they're buying the motherboard so they can upgrade CPU and RAM in the future but really, how many people actually change the CPU?

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

DDR2 will be fine. How likely are you to actually upgrade the system apart from adding RAM? People always say that they're buying the motherboard so they can upgrade CPU and RAM in the future but really, how many people actually change the CPU?

More than likely, I won't change the cpu at all. I mean I probably wont use this machine longer than a year, year and a half tops. Now if I want to actually study for my VCP this summer and I need to set up a cluster, that's going to suck if If I can't find same hardware but I'm willing to chance that.

DDR2 memory is about half the cost of DDR3 from what I have been looking at and I don't know of any processors that don't support VT.

earweed

You'll probably want to make sure it'll meet requirements for Hyper-V in case you should need that in the future.
I have Server 2008 R2 and hyper-V on my set up but that's just because I'm currently studying MS technologies. When I (finally) get around to VMWare I'll switch over to ESXi. I just went with building a better, more powerful, PC instead of going the server route as it suits my needs for now. I only see using this lab setup for perhaps the next year and then I'll get a server in order to do more complex labs. I'll probaly study exchange after finishing up at WGU.

Bl8ckr0uter

I don't plan on studying hyper V but you never know right?

rogue2shadow

[RANDOM] Powershell ftw! [/RANDOM]

Bl8ckr0uter

I started looking at AMD alternatives and I found this nice little combo
Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

I checked ultimate whilebox and a few other places and the mobo and the processor seems to be ok. The raid on the mobo is questionable but that is ok. I can get 8gb of ram and go from there. It would help keep my cost down.
Any one have any (good or bad) experience with this mobo or processor?

rogue2shadow

knwminus wrote: »

I started looking at AMD alternatives and I found this nice little combo
Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

I checked ultimate whilebox and a few other places and the mobo and the processor seems to be ok. The raid on the mobo is questionable but that is ok. I can get 8gb of ram and go from there. It would help keep my cost down.
Any one have any (good or bad) experience with this mobo or processor?

I've had a couple friends use that processor but the board they havent. ASUS has been generally good to me and they're quick about getting RMAs out. I havent read through the whole thread but is this going to be a "green" machine or does wattage not matter (price vs. performance)?

Bl8ckr0uter

rogue2shadow wrote: »

I've had a couple friends use that processor but the board they havent. ASUS has been generally good to me and they're quick about getting RMAs out. I havent read through the whole thread but is this going to be a "green" machine or does wattage not matter (price vs. performance)?

I am not too concerned about being green (I know that sounds bad) but I am concerned about price. I want it to be as cheap as possible but still perform the duties of my ESXI4 server.

rogue2shadow

knwminus wrote: »

I am not too concerned about being green (I know that sounds bad) but I am concerned about price. I want it to be as cheap as possible but still perform the duties of my ESXI4 server.

I think you should be fine with this setup. I am thinking about ESX'ing as well but only after my Linux and MS studies; my main PC can handle a couple VMs and still stay functional for now lol.

earweed

rogue2shadow wrote: »

I think you should be fine with this setup. I am thinking about ESX'ing as well but only after my Linux and MS studies; my main PC can handle a couple VMs and still stay functional for now lol.

How much RAM do you have Rogue2shadow as that will be your main factor for virtualizing for your MS studies. 2GB will barely do it and 4GB will handle everything you need for the MCSA studies.

it_consultant

I have 8 GB in my PC and an overclocked i5 proc (about 3.4 GHz) and when I run my exchange labs I am at about 40% proc utilization and 90% memory. I run a Server core install for a DC, Server standard for my exchange box, and Untangle for a router. You can do without the router but I prefer it in my simulations. I don't run ESX since I like having my desktop, VM Worstation was fine but VirtualBox is free and does most of what I need.

I got the i5 last year on sale for $150 at Micro Center. I considered moving to 16 GB of RAM but it will be nearly $500. RAM for the iProcessors is extremely expensive.

Bl8ckr0uter

I have a laptop that I will use for general browsing and such so having a dedicated ESXI machine is fine by me. I only plan to have a few VMs on there (a few Centos/fedora/ubuntu server machines, 1-2 windows servers and a windows client) to help with my general studies and to help clear out the stuff from my sig.

rogue2shadow

earweed wrote: »

How much RAM do you have Rogue2shadow as that will be your main factor for virtualizing for your MS studies. 2GB will barely do it and 4GB will handle everything you need for the MCSA studies.

At the moment, I have 6GBs. When I was using VMware hardcore, I had 12GB (3 months ago) on my i7 PC but I sold 6GBs because I didn't see myself using VMware that much anymore. I'm going to "rebuy" 6gbs now that the MCSA is on the table.

Asif Dasl

knwminus wrote: »

I started looking at AMD alternatives and I found this nice little combo
Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

I checked ultimate whilebox and a few other places and the mobo and the processor seems to be ok. The raid on the mobo is questionable but that is ok. I can get 8gb of ram and go from there. It would help keep my cost down.
Any one have any (good or bad) experience with this mobo or processor?

I am thinking of going with AMD for my lab also. At the moment I am debating weather to go with a Phenom 9850 Vs Phenom II X4 965. I think I will go with an Asus M4A785-M so I can re-use my 4Gb DDR2 RAM.

I can't see myself replacing the CPUs down the line, so for now it's about keeping the cost down because I am building 2 boxes. I will probably just build 2 new boxes from scratch within a year anyway, and DDR3 will probably be cheaper too. But I also want something which will work with ESXi. I always wanted to build an i7 920/930 box but I can build 2 x DDR2, AMD quad-core machines for the price of a single i7 930 (because I am upgrading rather than a full rebuild), and it will probably be more useful for labbing.

You should check the website below as I find it a great tool to compare CPU benchmarks.

Newegg.com - ASUS M4A785-M AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom 9850 2.5GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor HD985ZXAJ4BGH - Processors - Desktops
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX

PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

earweed

rogue2shadow wrote: »

At the moment, I have 6GBs. When I was using VMware hardcore, I had 12GB (3 months ago) on my i7 PC but I sold 6GBs because I didn't see myself using VMware that much anymore. I'm going to "rebuy" 6gbs now that the MCSA is on the table.

6 GB RAM should do you good for your MCSA studies.
I had only 2 GB for the 70-640/642 and I was horribly underpowered. My new box had 4 GB to start and I could run 3 or 4 VMs easy and fast. I now have 12 GB and will never need more (hopefully) and my only slowdown is disk I/O

Bl8ckr0uter

Asif Dasl wrote: »

I am thinking of going with AMD for my lab also. At the moment I am debating weather to go with a Phenom 9850 Vs Phenom II X4 965. I think I will go with an Asus M4A785-M so I can re-use my 4Gb DDR2 RAM.

I can't see myself replacing the CPUs down the line, so for now it's about keeping the cost down because I am building 2 boxes. I will probably just build 2 new boxes from scratch within a year anyway, and DDR3 will probably be cheaper too. But I also want something which will work with ESXi. I always wanted to build an i7 920/930 box but I can build 2 x DDR2, AMD quad-core machines for the price of a single i7 930 (because I am upgrading rather than a full rebuild), and it will probably be more useful for labbing.

You should check the website below as I find it a great tool to compare CPU benchmarks.

Newegg.com - ASUS M4A785-M AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom 9850 2.5GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor HD985ZXAJ4BGH - Processors - Desktops
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX

PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

Better idea!!!!

You need two identical (hardware wise) machines to use Vmotion so having two will help if you really want to study Vmware (or get the VCP, which I do if I can afford it).

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

You need two identical (hardware wise) machines to use Vmotion so having two will help if you really want to study Vmware (or get the VCP, which I do if I can afford it).

You need to have a similar CPU to do so but they don't have to be identical. If they don't precisely match then you can use EVC to mask the capabilities but there are various gotchas involved with that.

If I was building a lab for training multiple people then I'd put an extra machine with a different CPU just so people can see what EVC is and what it helps you do along with the pitfalls involved. For a home lab you'll just have to remember what it does if you don't have the necessary hardware to do so.

ssampier

Are you going for VMware certification then?

Virtualization is such an awesome technology. I was going to do a virtualized network at my old job with 2 nice boxes, EMC SAN, etc, but the budget got in the way. I did play with VMware using local storage and ESXi, though, which was fun and interesting.

For lab use at home, I have gotten miles out of VirtualBox. It's awesome, but I can't seem to get it to work with x64 guests, though.

Bl8ckr0uter

virtualbox cannot support 64bit guest.
64-bit guests don't install (View topic) • virtualbox.org


I do want it but I don't want commit to doing it yet. I work with and in VMware lightly everyday but I am not sure the VCP will be in my immediate future. It is likely but again I don't know yet. We will see how much cash I have when I am done with school. I want to do networking but I like virtualization as well. I think I am pretty committed with school fulltime, C|EH, GSEC, and GCIA next year. I'd have to self finance since my job wouldn't pay for it (or any training).

ssampier

That sounds like a great cert path.

And VirtualBox does support 64 bit guests.

VirtualBox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You just need virtualization extensions (VT). My Intel chip does, but I haven't needed it yet.

MentholMoose

knwminus wrote: »

I am not too concerned about being green (I know that sounds bad) but I am concerned about price. I want it to be as cheap as possible but still perform the duties of my ESXI4 server.

Don't discount the main benefit of being green: saving electricity and hence money. When studying for the VCP my power bill went up about $60 per month (about double the usual).

exampasser

On the topic of selecting a machine for esxi would this be a good choice?
Rackable Systems 1U Server Dual Xeon 2.8ghz/4gb/DVD/LCD - eBay (item 200498156361 end time Sep-17-10 13:36:13 PDT)

It's an older machine but it has two Xeon cpus (SL8TK) and 4 GB of RAM.

Asif Dasl

exampasser wrote: »

On the topic of selecting a machine for esxi would this be a good choice?
Rackable Systems 1U Server Dual Xeon 2.8ghz/4gb/DVD/LCD - eBay (item 200498156361 end time Sep-17-10 13:36:13 PDT)

It's an older machine but it has two Xeon cpus (SL8TK) and 4 GB of RAM.

The SL8TK is a single core 2.80 Ghz Xeon with a passmark bench of 498 (very low). Even though it is a dual-processor system (benches at 923), it probably doesn't have VT extensions. Also the NIC is a 10/100 and ESXi does not support 100Mb NICs any more.

EDIT: You are better building your own whitebox using the reference Knwminus posted above (reposted below), and whatever you build you will probably need a 10/100/1000 Intel PRO/1000 NIC for ESXi compatibility, which you can get off eBay.

http://www.vm-help.com/esx40i/esx40_whitebox_HCL.php#MB

exampasser

Asif Dasl wrote: »

The SL8TK is a single core 2.80 Ghz Xeon with a passmark bench of 498 (very low). Even though it is a dual-processor system (benches at 923), it probably doesn't have VT extensions. Also the NIC is a 10/100 and ESXi does not support 100Mb NICs any more.

EDIT: You are better building your own whitebox using the reference Knwminus posted above (reposted below), and whatever you build you will probably need a 10/100/1000 Intel PRO/1000 NIC for ESXi compatibility, which you can get off eBay.

ESX / ESXi 4.0 Whitebox HCL

Oh well I tried lol, I wasn't concerned about it not having VT extensions as I didn't plan on running any 64-bit Os's. Your right about the NIC being an issue, I though about simply adding a intel NIC but upon closer inspection it may not even fit.

EDIT: I did find a newer server for $300 with 2 dual=core Xeon 5140s. It doesn't have an Intel NIC but one could be easily added. It does need an HDD (and possibly more RAM). Just trowing out another idea.
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-x3500-Server-7977-AC1-2x-Dual-core-Xeon-2-33GHz-2GB-/300458946258?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item45f4bfaed2

Asif Dasl

exampasser wrote: »

EDIT: I did find a newer server for $300 with 2 dual=core Xeon 5140s. It doesn't have an Intel NIC but one could be easily added. It does need an HDD (and possibly more RAM). Just trowing out another idea.
IBM x3500 Server 7977-AC1 2x Dual-core Xeon 2.33GHz/2GB - eBay (item 300458946258 end time Sep-22-10 09:23:06 PDT)

RAM could be an issue with that server, it is using ECC RAM which might be required & more expensive to get. At that price I would rather buy an Asus M4A785-M and a Phenom 9850 and 4Gb of DDR2 RAM minimum. Then at least when I have the money or inclination to upgrade I could throw a 6-core AMD Phenom II X6 1090T in to it and instantly double the processing power with no need to upgrade any other parts. That other server will suck up juice like there is no tomorrow too.

If you really want a U server then I would check that whitebox HCL again as it lists servers which are compatible with ESXi - but for me the overhead of buying server RAM and/or power consumption and/or upgradability and/or ESXi compatibility means I will always go self-build personally.

exampasser

I should have mentioned that I just wanted something cheap to try out ESXi on, a test machine. The self-build would be the way to go for a fully-loaded machine.