CISSP certification as college credits

stoked64

Thinking of finishing my college requirements online this winter. I must admit, passing the CISSP exam was as tough as any college exam I have taken so far.

Does any college recognize the CISSP certification as college credits?

JDMurray

Some online universities do have the "credits for certs" marketing gimmick to get people to enroll. They will waive specific classes for having specific certifications. WGU seems to be the university most talked about on this site for enabling a certified person to get a degree the most quickly.

veritas_libertas

JDMurray wrote: »

Some online universities do have the "credits for certs" marketing gimmick to get people to enroll. They will waive specific classes for having specific certifications. WGU seems to be the university most talked about on this site for enabling a certified person to get a degree the most quickly.

I'm not sure I like that term, but I understand where you are coming from...

I've also seen quite a few community and tech colleges waive classes for the A+. I'm not sure about any other certifications. I do know that the university I'm looking at for my master degree studies will waive the GRE for SSCP/CISSP/Security+.

Davenport University

@OP: Check out Capella, I know they waive classes for the CISSP. At least that is what the enrollment folks told me last year when I was looking.

JDMurray

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I'm not sure I like that term, but I understand where you are coming from...

"Marketing device" then. It's also the same reason that Microsoft created the MCP.

Maybe I'm just too old-school, I think it's distasteful to trade non-academic certification for academic credits. I have no problems with certs-for-CEUs, but academic credits are more Holy to me, and this policy seems to cheapens them. I'd rather that people still be required to test-out in order to waive classes, certs or not.

Times have changed, I know.

veritas_libertas wrote: »

@OP: Check out Capella, I know they waive classes for the CISSP. At least that is what the enrollment folks told me last year when I was looking.

Yes, Capella had that deal years ago when I graduated. It would have saved me some money if I had my CISSP before getting my degree. I'd like to think that I wouldn't have taken advantage of the possibility.

eMeS

JDMurray wrote: »

Maybe I'm just too old-school, I think it's distasteful to trade non-academic certification for academic credits. I have no problems with certs-for-CEUs, but academic credits are more Holy to me, and this policy seems to cheapens them. I'd rather that people still be required to test-out in order to waive classes, certs or not.

Times have changed, I know.

I struggle with this as well.

While on one hand I'm all about everyone taking credit for what they've already done, on the other hand trading certifications for college credits seems a lot like turning over formal education to the whims of private industry.

IMO formal educational institutions serve a purpose that is very different than what for-profit industry does.

The long-term effect of this will be devastating in terms of funding for basic research and preservation of the arts, etc..

MS

veritas_libertas

JDMurray wrote: »

"Marketing device" then. It's also the same reason that Microsoft created the MCP.

Maybe I'm just too old-school, I think it's distasteful to trade non-academic certification for academic credits. I have no problems with certs-for-CEUs, but academic credits are more Holy to me, and this policy seems to cheapens them. I'd rather that people still be required to test-out in order to waive classes, certs or not.

Times have changed, I know.


Yes, Capella had that deal years ago when I graduated. It would have saved me some money if I had my CISSP before getting my degree. I'd like to think that I wouldn't have taken advantage of the possibility.

I understand where you are coming from, though I don't agree entirely. I'm not sure how I feel about vendor specific certifications being used, but CompTIA, ISC(2), EC-Council, etc. doesn't bother me nearly as much. I'm taking classes through WGU because it happened to work out well for me.

erpadmin

JDMurray wrote: »

"Marketing device" then. It's also the same reason that Microsoft created the MCP.

Maybe I'm just too old-school, I think it's distasteful to trade non-academic certification for academic credits. I have no problems with certs-for-CEUs, but academic credits are more Holy to me, and this policy seems to cheapens them. I'd rather that people still be required to test-out in order to waive classes, certs or not.

Speaking as a WGU student, I can see and respect where you are coming from. I also fear that many respective employers would feel the same way you, and eMeS do. I think that's why a lot of WGU students tend to want to go to the traditional B&M for their Masters. Maybe WGU did "cheapen" academic credits, but I wouldn't fault WGU alone for that. It's not like they pulled out a scene from the movie, Accepted and called it a day. I would fault the regional accreditation body for allowing WGU to "cheapen" those credits. Because if not for that regional body doing that and saying this degree counts, I would have never enrolled. A degree from a regionally accredited school, be it from WGU or Harvard is the only thing that matters that lets you into graduate school (plus stuff like GREs, etc). Folks may not have to like it, but it counts. But if a respective employer may not like the BS, at least he might like the MS or MBA. It would at the very least show that I wasn't looking for the easy way out and that I do value a quality education. That is why I can respect where you are coming from.

Bl8ckr0uter

JDMurray wrote: »

"Marketing device" then. It's also the same reason that Microsoft created the MCP.

Maybe I'm just too old-school, I think it's distasteful to trade non-academic certification for academic credits. I have no problems with certs-for-CEUs, but academic credits are more Holy to me, and this policy seems to cheapens them. I'd rather that people still be required to test-out in order to waive classes, certs or not.

Times have changed, I know.

For the record I am 22 and I completely agree with you. I also have been directly benefited by this. By self studying for the CCNA, I was able to audit 28 credits worth of classes. That's almost 1/3 of the degree. By doing the A+/N+ I also save another 3 credits each. In total a little more than 1 third of my A.A.S will be completed because of certs. I question myself if the reduction of time was worth it sometimes. In the cisco lab at school they have a few 6500 devices. They have way better things than my piece of **** routers and switches. They also have connections which I lost out on making. I made my decision though so its to late on going back.

IMO I could never go to a school like WGU simply for that reason, especially for a BS which is suppose to be the foundation of your education (post HS). So yea you maybe be able to do it but IMO it isn't worth it, which is why when I leave in a few months I am going to find a local, traditional B+M with a online component, especially since I want to go to Harvard for my MBA (stealing a page from the emes book). I think going to a "well known", traditional school will help me get to where I want to go.

Also I am not knocking anyone here. I have actually recommended the school to a few people in a few circumstances. I don't think it is all bad. I do think that it isn't right for me and lots of other people. For some it is a great option.

eMeS wrote: »

The long-term effect of this will be devastating in terms of funding for basic research and preservation of the arts, etc..

MS

Now this I disagree with. I think you are dealing with two very different audiences. The people who are doing research, developing major projects, inventing and so on aren't going to UoP, DeVry, ITT or WGU. Those people could probably also give a **** less about comptia, Microsoft, Cisco, or most other certs (With the execption of certs like CISSP or SANS stuff). I also do think the arts are going to be hurt either. What will be hurt is the general education of the support class of IT (helpdesk-engineer, etc) due to the lack of, shall we say, holistic education. I am sure a class about servers as a whole that would touch on MS, *NIX, BSD, etc would be more educational beneficial than a MCP/SA/ITP acquired on your on. I kind of wish that more classes just taught networking rather than the cisco IOS or microsoft. I kind of wish I could take a class on TCP/IP that was beyond Network+ level. But I guess that's what a BS is for.

erpadmin

knwminus wrote: »

IMO I could never go to a school like WGU simply for that reason, especially for a BS which is suppose to be the foundation of your education (post HS). So yea you maybe be able to do it but IMO it isn't worth it, which is why when I leave in a few months I am going to find a local, traditional B+M with a online component, especially since I want to go to Harvard for my MBA (stealing a page from the emes book). I think going to a "well known", traditional school will help me get to where I want to go.

Not for nothing, but you going for a BS after your AAS guarantees you'll be in school for longer than a hot minute. Many schools won't transfer a lot of your credits (though I imagine and hope some will), so don't be surprised if you spend a bit more time obtaining your degree than you would if you were to obtain a BS starting today. I don't and won't knock you for going for a BS at a traditional route, in fact I actually wish I could. But at this stage in the game (I'm 33), I don't exactly have time on my side. You do and if you do have aspirations for a Harvard MBA, it's not only a BS/BA that will do it, but what kind of a professional background you have at the time you even apply to the program.

knwminus wrote: »

Now this I disagree with. I think you are dealing with two very different audiences. The people who are doing research, developing major projects, inventing and so on aren't going to UoP, DeVry, ITT or WGU. Those people could probably also give a **** less about comptia, Microsoft, Cisco, or most other certs (With the execption of certs like CISSP or SANS stuff). I also do think the arts are going to be hurt either. What will be hurt is the general education of the support class of IT (helpdesk-engineer, etc) due to the lack of, shall we say, holistic education. I am sure a class about servers as a whole that would touch on MS, *NIX, BSD, etc would be more educational beneficial than a MCP/SA/ITP acquired on your on. I kind of wish that more classes just taught networking rather than the cisco IOS or microsoft. I kind of wish I could take a class on TCP/IP that was beyond Network+ level. But I guess that's what a BS is for.

I'm not sure WGU has a lack of a holistic education. I did transfer a good portion of social science credits that I took in past coursework (psychology, sociology, antrhopology, economics, etc., etc.), but some stuff I have to take. It's not all MCITP:EA or Cisco with them. Also, the degrees they offer are in Information Technology. If you want a pure networking course, you can take a course in any college/university that teaches Computer Science courses and take a Networking course that is focused on theory and academics. Many CS majors are required to learn networking from an academic level (no Cisco, Juniper, etc., gets discussed...just the academics that support the technology you learned and support). Operating Systems, Database Design, etc., etc....all are discussed at an academic level. So if a CS degree or a couple of CS courses is what you want, you can do that now. You could probably just audit them and take them for non-credit if you want.

Seriously though...the good thing about you right now is that you are young and employed. Make the best of it and get a BS/MBA regardless of the route you want to go for. You'll come to learn as you get older, time flies at a ridiculous pace. So it's best to make the most of it now!

Bl8ckr0uter

erpadmin wrote: »

Not for nothing, but you going for a BS after your AAS guarantees you'll be in school for longer than a hot minute. Many schools won't transfer a lot of your credits (though I imagine and hope some will), so don't be surprised if you spend a bit more time obtaining your degree than you would if you were to obtain a BS starting today. I don't and won't knock you for going for a BS at a traditional route, in fact I actually wish I could. But at this stage in the game (I'm 33), I don't exactly have time on my side. You do and if you do have aspirations for a Harvard MBA, it's not only a BS/BA that will do it, but what kind of a professional background you have at the time you even apply to the program.

You could do it if you wanted to. 33 isn't that old man (that's only about 10 years older than me ). Seriously I could see if you were like 60 or something. As far as to get my BS, I hope to be done by mid summer 2012 (assuming the world doesn't blow up lol). Then an MBA, then probably Law School so I plan to be in school in and out until my 30s. Transfering classes isn't the big issue, the big issue is me getting an applied AS rather than a regular AS. That apparently makes a big difference to 4 year schools. I know the difference but I don't think it should be that big of a deal. Doing the Software Development track and the Network Engineering track should help cut down the time with a CS degree.

Holistic wasn't the best word but it was the only thing I could think of. I mean professionally, not overall. I know there are gen eds there. What I meant was like holistic in the sense of vendor agnostic like SANS or CISSP or others (which is why I listed them differently). I guess it depends on what you expect to get from you BS and why you are going for it. From what I can tell, you are getting it because you want it to back up you existing experience---you have the chops you just need the paper to go to that next level. For me, as I am still somewhat entry level, I still need that refinement--I have some knowledge but I still need to build my skills and the education I hope to get should help me refine my skills and build my chops.

At the end of the day probably 90 percent of jobs won't care. My programming professor has his BS and MS from UoP. Does that mean he doesn't know his stuff? No. Does that mean he doesn't know more than me? Hell no. Would he even be in his position if he went to a school like MIT or Caltech? Probably not but I guess I shouldn't expect the same level of education at a community college, even if the subject is the same. Oh well.

EDIT: Oh I know how quickly time flies. It seems like yesterday that I was sitting in HS trying to spit games to girls. I remember this girl walking up to me and dry humping me into a locker. Or this other time a girl (quite literally) pulled me into the shower room with her for some "fun". Lol man that sems like yesterday but I've been out of HS for 4 years now. Coming up on 5. None of the people who were in school with me at any grade level are still there. A full generation has come and gone. Wow. So crazy.

erpadmin

knwminus wrote: »

You could do it if you wanted to. 33 isn't that old man (that's only about 10 years older than me ). Seriously I could see if you were like 60 or something. As far as to get my BS, I hope to be done by mid summer 2012 (assuming the world doesn't blow up lol). Then an MBA, then probably Law School so I plan to be in school in and out until my 30s. Transfering classes isn't the big issue, the big issue is me getting an applied AS rather than a regular AS. That apparently makes a big difference to 4 year schools. I know the difference but I don't think it should be that big of a deal. Doing the Software Development track and the Network Engineering track should help cut down the time with a CS degree.

I don't doubt it either, but it would take at minimum a whole 4-5 years, and that's if I involve summer classes plus a winter intercession or two. Going back to school full time at a traditional B&M would require time away from wifey. Hell, WGU is taking a considerable chunk of my time away from her. But I keep telling her that in order for us to do what we need to do, I have to do this. One has to be extremely lucky to go as far as I did with just a HS diploma. It happens, and there are folks even on this board that have done what I've done and more with just a HS diploma (forget certs...I'm really talking about just an educational background). Oh now I can always say I have "some college" but that only takes you so far.

knwminus wrote: »

Holistic wasn't the best word but it was the only thing I could think of. I mean professionally, not overall. I know there are gen eds there. What I meant was like holistic in the sense of vendor agnostic like SANS or CISSP or others (which is why I listed them differently). I guess it depends on what you expect to get from you BS and why you are going for it. From what I can tell, you are getting it because you want it to back up you existing experience---you have the chops you just need the paper to go to that next level. For me, as I am still somewhat entry level, I still need that refinement--I have some knowledge but I still need to build my skills and the education I hope to get should help me refine my skills and build my chops.

Exactamundo, brother! At my job, management has had their rates frozen. I'm not too far away from my boss' salary, as he loves to tell me. I make just as much as my colleagues with a BS and/or a MS. All this because I knew what an ERP meant and can troubleshoot my system fairly quickly and I keep my production systems running. I'm also involved in upgrading my systems and training someone who's junior to me in this system. My boss is alluding to the fact I may one day see a supervisory position after I max out my title. That will take a good 3 years from today, as a matter of fact. I should have a BS from WGU before then. I would have been fine with a supervisory title before I got the degree...now I definitely want management, either at my job or elsewhere.

Believe me, I definitely understand that it probably seems like a copout going the WGU route. Maybe it is, tbh with you. I can't really defend something I don't have, but the work I'm putting into getting it can be defended. This definitely isn't easy....but it is doable. I was assured by folks, here and elsewhere that I can get a Masters from a regular brick and mortar, and that I definitely will do traditionally (either at Rutgers or NJIT). NYU wouldn't be a bad deal except I don't want to be in debt for the rest of my life. But one other option I can consider is obtaining my CISSP before I even touch grad school. That would probably ensure I could get a job equal to my boss' someday.

knwminus wrote: »

At the end of the day probably 90 percent of jobs won't care. My programming professor has his BS and MS from UoP. Does that mean he doesn't know his stuff? No. Does that mean he doesn't know more than me? Hell no. Would he even be in his position if he went to a school like MIT or Caltech? Probably not but I guess I shouldn't expect the same level of education at a community college, even if the subject is the same. Oh well.

Man, I have always been a believer of experience vs. education. It's all about competence at the end of the day. As long as you can prove it, you're pretty much all right. Seriously, I had plans....they got derailed, but only because I allowed them to. I allowed the dollar to dictate how I spend and live my life in my youth. It took a whole lot of growing up to realize I had to snap out of that. Had I not been "paper chasing" or whatever the kids are saying today, I would have had my law degree years ago and would be paying you to fix my PC and network. LOL. But hey, life is full of life lessons. Some are great, some not so much. But it's all part of the experience. Now that my job is my career....I pretty much have to make the best of it until I retire. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to improve it. That's actually why I'm here. To improve my professional career, and perhaps impart some "nah-lege".

Bl8ckr0uter

erpadmin wrote: »

Believe me, I definitely understand that it probably seems like a copout going the WGU route. Maybe it is, tbh with you. I can't really defend something I don't have, but the work I'm putting into getting it can be defended. This definitely isn't easy....but it is doable. I was assured by folks, here and elsewhere that I can get a Masters from a regular brick and mortar, and that I definitely will do traditionally (either at Rutgers or NJIT). NYU wouldn't be a bad deal except I don't want to be in debt for the rest of my life. But one other option I can consider is obtaining my CISSP before I even touch grad school. That would probably ensure I could get a job equal to my boss' someday.

No I wouldn't say copout. To me, it would be a copout to just say F it and screw school. I think the school is designed to fast track a BS degree by making it "easier" and assessable. By easier I mean using certs to help get some classes out the way and by accessable I obviously mean the fact that the school is online. I don't have a problem with that at all. In fact I wish more schools would make it getting a "higher" education more accessable. Do you know how much I pay per credit hour? 45 dollars. 45 dollars a credit hour is nothing. Some of the schools around here want more than 10 times that. Does that mean a BS is worth 10 times more than an AS (A.A.S/A.S)? Hell no. They charge it because they can and to play with the big dogs it is either get on board or get left behind. I think it is total BS that school cost so much. 100% total BS. 2 semesters of "higher" education should not cost more than 2 years of JR college. But that's why I am trying to keep my grades up so I can let someone else foot the bill lol.

EDIT:

Alot of people would say I have come pretty far without having a degree. I looked at the numbers I am pulling in about 25 percent more than the average person in my area. I think that is pretty good. After my A.A.S I am seriously considering taking a year off to breathe. After my failed time at Devrry right after HS (I should have went to Ohio State or community college, or Wright State), I have only been out of classes of 2 quarters at a time. So basically I have been a "student" for the last four years or so. School is just so odd. Like i just logged into my online class to do some post and it just feels like, this isn't going to help me do my job. I think all schools (with the medical school not being included) should go to back to master-padawon relationship.

cvisionz

Think about this....

You are going to school full time to earn a Bachelor's of Science degree, in Information Technology with a concentration in Security. You are doing this online at a school such as WGU.

You have to take the same exact "Networking 101" class that is taught at any brick and mortar school. You know that it's the same because the reading material and course requirements are the same. Additionally, the school has the exact same regional accreditions as any other school in the area (UNLV, CAL, OR, UT, UT ST., BYU, etc) so the regional accrediting authority has audited the school against the exact same standards that all other brick and mortar colleges are held to.

Your buddy is going to BYU and has to take the exact same class. Same reading material (some overpriced textbook on networking theory), however he is spending much, much more than you considering paying "fees" for things like electricity that brick and mortar colleges require.

At the end of the class, both of you have passed with flying colors, and both of you are now equally proficient in networking theory as defined by the college and regional accrediting authorities. HOWEVER...

Your buddy spent a total of $1,806.00 to obtain his regionally accredited- 3 credit hours in Networking Theory 101. (BYU $602/credit hour * 3hrs). He moves on to the next class.

You spend $687.50 and obtain your regionally accredited - 3 credit hours in Networking Theory 101. (WGU $2750 semester / 12 credits for full time / 3hrs). AND, instead of taking a class-centric final exam, your final exam is the Network+ certification exam, an industry recognized, vendor-nuetral certification backed by the United States Department of Defense (DOD 8570.01-M, IAT Level I). Your school footed the bill for the certification exam.

This same scenario occurs numerous times throughout your college career, e.g. Security Infrastructure 101. He pays $1806 and gets 3 recognized credits, and you pay $687 and get 3 recognized credits, and an industry recognized Security+ certification, thusly becoming DoD 8570.01-M IAT Level II compliant.

As someone pointed out earlier, we are talking about an INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY degree, not a Juris Doctorate law degree, or Doctorate of Education PhD, or Medical Doctorate. We are not insinuating someone can fast track and pass the bar exam forgoing law. In my opinion, these certifications are not cheapening the Information technology degrees, they are in fact strengthening them.

As a hiring manager, I am conducting interviews and notice person "A" took a Network 101 class one time in College, and person "B" has a Network+ certification. I know what it takes to get a Network+. Can you say the same for the college class?

signed,
The guy earning a CHFI, DRP, C|EH, CWSP, & SANS GAIC G7799 (ISO 27001) certifications-- while attending an online school AND getting a Masters Degree in Information Assurance and Security-- from the same regionally accredited authorities as the $$$$$ B&Ms-- and saving approximately $35,792.00 in the process (combined BS and MS).

cvisionz

Looking at it from a different perspective, I wanted to ensure it was understood that the degrees from an online college, again using WGU as the main example, is not entirely comprised of specialized classes. As the only nationally accredited college in four accreditation regions (no other univervisty/college in the United States holds that distinction), WGU students are forced to take the "exact same" classes as students from other universities with the same course requirements and reading material as other universities in the US. (which sucks equally for all students

Expanding on our previous example, students earning an B.S. IT:Security degree have to take Security 101, Networking 101, etc, regardless of the accredited university they are attending. In addition, they also have to take classes such as the following:

- Language and Communication: Foundations (English 101)
- Language and Communication: Essay (English Comp I)
- Language and Communication: Research (English Comp II)
- Language and Communication Presentation (Public Speaking)
- Reasoning and Problem Solving (Critical Thinking)
- Quantitative Literacy: College Algebra, Measurement and Geometry (Math I)
- Quantitative Literacy: Statistics, Probability and Problem Solving (Math II)
- Quantitative Literacy: Quantitative Problem Solving and Applications (Math III)
- Project Management
- Integrated Natural Science (Earth Science)
- Integrated Natural Science Applications (Lab)
- General Education Social Science (American History/American Govt/World History/Geography)
- General Education Social Science: Analysis and Applications (American History/American Govt/World History/Geography II)
- Literature, Arts and the Humanities (English Lit)
- Literature, Arts and the Humanities: Analysis and Interpretation (English Lit II)
- Leadership Concepts and Applications (Leadership 101)
- Fundamentals of Organizational Behavior and Leadership (Leadership 201)
- Ethics

This is not a marketing "gimmick", these are all facts. Personally, I have no stake in the College other than to defend the integrity of my Bachellor's and soon to be Masters degrees. If the US Federal Government and multiple higher learning accreditation authorities respect the college, than so do I.

... and to tie this all back in with the orginal thread, I believe that a CISSP should ABSOLUTELY count as a CLEP of a Master's level College Course in Information Security. Hell, that might even count as one class in a Juris Doctorate with concentration in electronic law. Any of us who have actually taken and passed the CISSP could not argue the logic behind it.

So I'm all on board with someone with an A+ degree being able to CLEP out of an IT Fundamentals I class, or someone with an MCTS to CLEP out of an Operating System Fundamentals course, or an MCDBA to CLEP a Database class. In fact, it sucks for the poor college kids who have to take those classes and don't get any certification/license out of it.

Face it, "The times, they are a-changin..."

powerfool

Every piece of your professional development is important. Try to make the absolute best investments in yourself as possible. If you have the opportunity and means to go to MIT or Carnegie Mellon, do it. If you don't, get as close as you can.

For many jobs, it doesn't matter where you went to school; for others, it doesn't even matter if you went to school. However, there are some employers who have a list of preferred schools. I never thought that I would see that day, but I work at one of them now, and they are on the Top 100 employers list, nationwide, every year, and many Top 10 lists for the industry. They certainly care. I didn't go to one of their preferred schools, but I will make every attempt to do graduate work at one of them.

Someone on this board made an excellent analogy a few weeks ago, and I will paraphrase. An education is like a car, and your experience is your capability and competence. If you have no education it would be like driving a Pinto, but you may be very competent... getting an education from MIT would be like driving a high end sports car, like an Audi R8, or a something... but you may not have competence. You need to work your best at both as they both complement each other and help drive your career.

As always, never settle. Put everything into to your career that you can and earn everything you can out of it.

veritas_libertas

powerfool wrote: »

Every piece of your professional development is important. Try to make the absolute best investments in yourself as possible. If you have the opportunity and means to go to MIT or Carnegie Mellon, do it. If you don't, get as close as you can.

Exactly! That is what it all comes down to. Not all of us the opportunity to do that, but we need to take advantage of what we do have.