Just a thought

jahsoul

I have a question to ask and it has been on my mind for a while now. I remember a while back when people used to go straight for the CCIE and I was wondering if people still did it today? I have been reading around, and a lot of people have been talking about going through the CCNP route just to have something to show for studying it because everyone doesn't make it through as a CCIE. Is that the only real logic. Is it an unwritten rule against studying and mastering CCNP topics without taking the test and then study for the CCIE?

earweed

I just checked the Cisco learning network and your question was addressed several times there. According to their experts there are no prerequisites for the CCIE. (Although I'm sure people usually get the CCNA first..lol)
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/search.jspa?resultTypes=BLOG_POST&resultTypes=DOCUMENT&resultTypes=MESSAGE&resultTypes=BLOG&resultTypes=COMMUNITY&resultTypes=TASK&resultTypes=PROJECT&resultTypes=SOCIAL_GROUP&resultTypes=COMMENT&peopleEnabled=true&q=CCIE+prerequisites

dynamik

You still have to master the topics

I think some people just want to skip actually taking the exams. In Turgon's case, I believe his CCNP expired, so instead of going back and taking all the exams, he's just going to keep plugging away towards the CCIE. It's not like he doesn't have CCNP-level knowledge. I know someone else who is going directly for the CCIE: Security, so it happens.

jahsoul

I always knew it wasn't a prereq. but everytime I read something about someone going from CCNA to CCIE, they always bring up it's better going through the CCNP route because:

1. What you will learn
2. The piece of paper

I was just thinking, I can put forth the effort to learn everything that is in those books. I'm not out just trying to go cert crazy. It's plenty of people out there that has certs and don't know much of anything. It's not like I'm not going to go through the learning. I just don't necessarily need the certs. I honestly think that I can be ready to take the written in a year but a lot of people on different sites were saying that it was time wasted if you don't have anything to show for it.

earweed

I think you're well past needing this in your signature Former Member of the No Cert Crew

jahsoul

dynamik wrote: »

You still have to master the topics

And that is a key thing for me. I plan on mastering the topics. I just don't want people to hit me with the attitude that I have to go through the CCNP just to get the paper. Nothing is wrong with those who have it and I hope that it's not coming off like I'm saying anything against it (the internet is pretty ambiguous...lol). I just always take a different approach to everything.

jahsoul

earweed wrote: »

I think you're well past needing this in your signature Former Member of the No Cert Crew

LOL...

I have forgotten all about that...lol. *going to change that*

jahsoul

I think I have made up my mind. Why do I feel like I'm skipping my senior year to go to the pros? I'm just saying. I guess I will officially start right after I complete my CCNA:Sec.

Forsaken_GA

my goal has always been CCIE, but I figured that since I had to learn the material in other certification tracks for the CCIE anyway, I might as well take them. It offers a little more marketability for jobs while I'm pursuing the CCIE, and also offers milestones to measure my knowledge against. So for me, there is a reason for the lower certifications

jahsoul

I still may decide to go through the CCNP but I have that pull. I want to be marketable but within the company I am currently with.

A big factor with me was the discrepancies that I've been hearing about with the new CCNP exams, well specifically SWITCH. I'm still on the wall about this. I will see what the next month or 2 bring, and see if my attitude changes. It still wouldn't hurt to try..lmbo.

accely

exactly, having the certs at least proves that you've done something and that you know (probably) a decent amount and that makes you marketable while you pursue the CCIE in whatever track. Without any other certs you'd just be saying.. "yeah I know alot and I'm pursuing my CCIE" which anybody can say they are going for the CCIE, just like many people say "yeah im studying for my CCNA" but never actually take it lol

dynamik

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It offers a little more marketability for jobs while I'm pursuing the CCIE, and also offers milestones to measure my knowledge against. So for me, there is a reason for the lower certifications

This. The people I know who are going "straight" to the CCIE are people who already have years (maybe decades) of experience in networking. A CCNP really wouldn't do much for them. If you're just starting out, I think it would be foolish to skip over that. You're probably looking at around another year or two of study (or more) once you get to CCNP-level. Why wouldn't you want a CCNP that you could leverage into getting a better position where you could be working with more advanced technologies (and likely making more money)?

jahsoul

dynamik wrote: »

This. The people I know who are going "straight" to the CCIE are people who already have years (maybe decades) of experience in networking. A CCNP really wouldn't do much for them. If you're just starting out, I think it would be foolish to skip over that. You're probably looking at around another year or two of study (or more) once you get to CCNP-level. Why wouldn't you want a CCNP that you could leverage into getting a better position where you could be working with more advanced technologies (and likely making more money)?

It one of those I can't explain but I will try to anyway post..

The company I work for is all about what you know and your work ethic and not necessarily your certs (even though they are a Cisco/Microsoft Partner..lol). It is plenty of people there in high places without a cert but they have the working knowledge. I just thought it would be cool to challenge myself without obtaining certs "per se." Even at the end of it, if I don't get the CCIE, it wouldn't be a problem getting my CCNP. Did any of that make sense? lol

dynamik

jahsoul wrote: »

It one of those I can't explain but I will try to anyway post..

The company I work for is all about what you know and your work ethic and not necessarily your certs (even though they are a Cisco/Microsoft Partner..lol). It is plenty of people there in high places without a cert but they have the working knowledge. I just thought it would be cool to challenge myself without obtaining certs "per se." Even at the end of it, if I don't get the CCIE, it wouldn't be a problem getting my CCNP. Did any of that make sense? lol

Yea, I understand. However, you're looking at an endeavor that will take years. It's becoming increasing rare that people, especially those who are rapidly increasing their skill sets, stay with companies that long. What happens if you want/need to find another job or you get fired?

jahsoul

Dang you dyn! *shakes fist*

lol..seriously, I don't expect to really move from my current job, unless I get that Network Scientist job on base for $100 an hour..

But in case that does happen, at least I will have the knowledge and know how to get my CCNP if I feel like I just have to. Like I said, I haven't really made a concrete decision yet, but I'm really leaning towards the CCIE because..

1. The challenge
2. Just not in a major hurry for certs
3. Everybody thinks that I can't or won't finish..

But who knows how I will feel in 2011?

earweed

I actually see your point and actually getting the CCNP first to be marketable is one reason a lot of people have a hard time getting the CCIE. Once they leverage themselves into a "better" job with the CCNP they either no longer have the free time to study and have a whole lot of days where they enter no study today in their study log or they just aren't as hungry for that advanced cert.

Turgon

jahsoul wrote: »

I have a question to ask and it has been on my mind for a while now. I remember a while back when people used to go straight for the CCIE and I was wondering if people still did it today? I have been reading around, and a lot of people have been talking about going through the CCNP route just to have something to show for studying it because everyone doesn't make it through as a CCIE. Is that the only real logic. Is it an unwritten rule against studying and mastering CCNP topics without taking the test and then study for the CCIE?

Back in the day there was only the CCIE so you headed in that direction and for a few years until the CCNA etc bedded in it pretty much stayed that way. There are still people who go straight for it and they do get their number. Arguably the biggest clincher is time to do the track properly. You have to have a lot of regular time at your disposal to get through the CCIE. A relatively easy going job can help there. If the time availability is hit and miss then it can make sense to shoot for the CCNA and CCNP so you have something to show for your efforts. Many are called for the CCIE but few are chosen. Down the track you want to have something to show for a couple of years of study grunt and the CCNP is very achieveable. Lots of people want to be a CCIE, just as lots of people want to be a millionaire, but not all get there and its an easy thing to say. At least you can come to the interview table with something tangible that helps the credibility

For every 50 people that pass the written perhaps only one or two go on to be numbered so its something to think about!

chmorin

I'm going to be blunt on my thoughts on this:

If you have the knowledge of a particular area and plan to pursue a career into that field it would be downright foolish not to add certifications to your name along the way. All it takes is some bad luck and then you can't even afford the exams anymore.

Take the tests when you can while you can, and you will find yourself much more reliable as an individual when it comes to your future. If I had a nickel for every individual I have talked to who worked at a gas station saying "I did X for Y years but never took the time to build up anything for my future..." I would have... probably 35 cents but you get my point.

Take the proper approach for your future. Not the approach for your job. They can be two very, very different things.

jahsoul

@Turgon and chmorin

That's is what I was talking about earlier. Is a big part of why people are telling me to get the CCNP is to have something tangible just in case I get burnt out persuing my big picture goal? Not trying to turn this into a debate but that is the key point that I've always wanted to understand.

chmorin, I understand what you are saying completely about the bad luck but to be honest, I can't really afford to take any exam now.lol. If my job didn't have the material for me to check out, I wouldn't be reading. I gave up a lot to work in IT; a WHOLE LOT. Right now, I'm finding myself catching up financially and that is hard to do with a wife and 2 kids to take care of but I don't want to limit my learning and growing so I will continue reading and labbing (at the office). By the time I am caught up with everything, I will be at a crossroad; spend the $600 to obtain the CCNP or keep moving forward and work towards my CCIE. (we have a reimbursement system but they will pay for the lab upfront). I don't know if this kinds of clear things up from my perspective or not.. :-/


*********
Also, I believe that I am looking at the future instead of the job. When I came into IT, I said that I wanted to learn the ins and outs of Cisco. Not doing it because it is the big thing to do. This was a goal of mine before I stepped foot into the industy. Just kinda want yall to see where my head is...lmbo...

chmorin

There is nothing wrong about attempting to attain knowledge to better yourself. Put forward the effort and you will be rewarded more than alot of people who have the certifications but not an ounce of 'working man/woman' in them.

Take your time to get back on your fiscal feet. If that comes around and you are not CCIE take advantage of the reimbersment policy your company gives you and go make yourself worth more money. There is hardly a better practice for the CCIE written then taking other actual cisco tests. You can only benifit from it.

jahsoul

chmorin wrote: »

Take your time to get back on your fiscal feet. If that comes around and you are not CCIE take advantage of the reimbersment policy your company gives you and go make yourself worth more money. There is hardly a better practice for the CCIE written then taking other actual cisco tests. You can only benifit from it.

Honestly, that's what I'm waiting on. When that time comes. I think it will ultimately boil down to what I'm doing work wise, and if I will like I'm at that point where I want to move forward and persue the CCIE. Right now, I'm just going to say that I'm focusing on my CCIE Written with the chance of doing my CCNP.

lol

Paul Boz

The only reason I recommend the CCNP en route to the CCIE is because if you don’t at least have a CCNP-level of knowledge currently there’s no real negative to doing it. You wind up with a very legit professional-level certification, get more resume fodder for search engines, and get benchmarks for your progress. You also get something to show for your efforts while you’re studying. On the other hand, if you’re already at or near the CCIE level and don’t have any certs just knock it out. If it takes you a year or more to prepare for the CCIE I think the CCNP is a good route to take.

jahsoul

Paul Boz wrote: »

The only reason I recommend the CCNP en route to the CCIE is because if you don’t at least have a CCNP-level of knowledge currently there’s no real negative to doing it. You wind up with a very legit professional-level certification, get more resume fodder for search engines, and get benchmarks for your progress. You also get something to show for your efforts while you’re studying. On the other hand, if you’re already at or near the CCIE level and don’t have any certs just knock it out. If it takes you a year or more to prepare for the CCIE I think the CCNP is a good route to take.

I understood. That is why I clarified my situation a few post up. Once I'm financially able, I can go from there but the way I will approach my studies for the next year is study and master the topics of the CCNP and then go straight into the CCIE. So I guess I can call myself an unofficial CCIE candidate with the option of CCNP..lol

jahsoul

Last night, I had a long discussion with my wife and she has given me all the support in the world regarding this. She is the best!!! So as of today, my CCIE studies will begin October 1st 2010. The first 6 books of my studies will be...

*SWITCH Foundations
*ROUTE Foundations
*TSHOOT Foundations
*Routing TCP/IP Vol1
*Routing TCP/IP Vol2
*CCIE Exam Guide

And lab books I think we have

*SWITCH Lab book
*ROUTE Lab book
*TSHOOT Lab book
*INE Vol 3 & 4
*Will try to convince my employee to purchase The Foundation 2.0

I planned out a combination of studying and labbing up until I feel that I am comfortable enough to take the written then after the written is done, I will read specific topic books such as 642-642 exam guide, BGP, OSPF, MPLS & VPN, Deploying IPv6, and the field manuals while still labbing from INE and whatever labbooks we have a available.

Because I'm not trying to race the clock, I made a schedule that has perfect balance so I don't neglect my time with God and my family. So I have 20.5 hrs a week devoted to studying (10.5 reading and 10 labbing). I think approach works well for me. So I guess it's official..lol

Joey

peanutnoggin

jahsoul wrote: »

Last night, I had a long discussion with my wife and she has given me all the support in the world regarding this. She is the best!!! So as of today, my CCIE studies will begin October 1st 2010. The first 6 books of my studies will be...

*SWITCH Foundations
*ROUTE Foundations
*TSHOOT Foundations
*Routing TCP/IP Vol1
*Routing TCP/IP Vol2
*CCIE Exam Guide

And lab books I think we have

*SWITCH Lab book
*ROUTE Lab book
*TSHOOT Lab book
*INE Vol 3 & 4
*Will try to convince my employee to purchase The Foundation 2.0

I planned out a combination of studying and labbing up until I feel that I am comfortable enough to take the written then after the written is done, I will read specific topic books such as 642-642 exam guide, BGP, OSPF, MPLS & VPN, Deploying IPv6, and the field manuals while still labbing from INE and whatever labbooks we have a available.

Because I'm not trying to race the clock, I made a schedule that has perfect balance so I don't neglect my time with God and my family. So I have 20.5 hrs a week devoted to studying (10.5 reading and 10 labbing). I think approach works well for me. So I guess it's official..lol

Joey

CONGRATS Joey... good luck!! Take a look around the forums and the net... I've heard that the TSHOOT book wasn't worth the read!! I personally haven't read it so I can't agree or disagree, but that seems to be the consensus... Out of curiosity... which "Lab Books" are you referring to? Thanks!

-Peanut

Bl8ckr0uter

First of all good luck!

Hmm..

On the one hand this seems kind of crazy as most true network engineer jobs are in the CCXP range of knowledge and by not getting that cert you may cert yourself out of the vast majority of jobs. It also seems a bit steep since the difference between CCNA and CCIE is huge, like HS diploma vs Masters/PhD huge.
On the other hand it would seem that you have a solid plan and you are focused. You have some balls and you have your family to support you. Hmm. Have you thought about doing the CCIP instead of CCNP. It has more exams than the current CCNP but it probably covers most of the R/S CCIE topics.
This is going to be an epic thread for a few reasons. I don't know anyone who went from CCNA to CCIE. I only know of one person who went to CCIE directly but he had 20 years of networking experience. I am very eager to see how this plays out. This thread will probably serve as a major motivation for not only Networkers but all TEers.

jahsoul

peanutnoggin wrote: »

CONGRATS Joey... good luck!! Take a look around the forums and the net... I've heard that the TSHOOT book wasn't worth the read!! I personally haven't read it so I can't agree or disagree, but that seems to be the consensus... Out of curiosity... which "Lab Books" are you referring to? Thanks!

-Peanut

Thanks!!!
The lab books that came with each exam guide. I guess working for a partner has its perks; access to everything Cisco so I will use these lab guides for mastering the CCNP topics.

I haven't heard too much about TSHOOT but I heard that all of the Foundation books were better than the exam guides so i went that route.

jahsoul

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

First of all good luck!

Hmm..

On the one hand this seems kind of crazy as most true network engineer jobs are in the CCXP range of knowledge and by not getting that cert you may cert yourself out of the vast majority of jobs. It also seems a bit steep since the difference between CCNA and CCIE is huge, like HS diploma vs Masters/PhD huge.
On the other hand it would seem that you have a solid plan and you are focused. You have some balls and you have your family to support you. Hmm. Have you thought about doing the CCIP instead of CCNP. It has more exams than the current CCNP but it probably covers most of the R/S CCIE topics.
This is going to be an epic thread for a few reasons. I don't know anyone who went from CCNA to CCIE. I only know of one person who went to CCIE directly but he had 20 years of networking experience. I am very eager to see how this plays out. This thread will probably serve as a major motivation for not only Networkers but all TEers.

I appreciate it bruh. I said it felt like skipping my Jr. and Sr year to play in the pros. lol.

I thought about the CCIP but I am actually focusing a lot on the CCIP material after I complete the written. The QoS, BGP, and MPLS are on my wish list. I didn't really understand how everything really comes together in the CCIE until I read the blueprint and started to realize that CCIP as well as the CCNP knowledge is important, and from I have read, security and a little telephony. I guess that's the beauty of this. I have 3 years to do this. (well, 2 years and 9 months..lol).

After praying about it and talking with my wife, my eyes are wide open. I see the goal at the end, it's just the middle that I have to really focus on. After adding up my estimated study time, in a year, I will have 546hrs reading and 520hrs labbing.

I hope people do get something out of my road to the CCIE; we set our own limitations and create our own "caps," but in actuality, if one person can achieve a status, we all can. If you really want your number, it's there for the taking.

Paul Boz

Why wait until October 1st? If you're serious about it just start now.

jahsoul

I finish my term at WGU next week and I'm still focusing (trying to at least) on the Project+. Right when I finish, I'm going in head first into my studies. I want to start now but the more I read, the more I stop caring about the Project+.

Paul Boz

jahsoul wrote: »

I finish my term at WGU next week and I'm still focusing (trying to at least) on the Project+. Right when I finish, I'm going in head first into my studies. I want to start now but the more I read, the more I stop caring about the Project+.

Ugh I do that all the time, it sucks. "Boy I should really take some initiative to study for the CISSP this weekend... but I'd rather work on an abstract 80 page paper for SANS instead." I have an awful time staying focused which is why I load balance like three certs at a time.