wide vs deep

GT-Rob

There was an interesting poll on networkworld I came across, and what caught my attention was this:

"after your first CCxP certification, would you rather have two more CCxP certs, or a CCIE?"

And more than 40% actually choose the first. I thought it would be interesting to see what people here have to say.


Personally, I am a little on the fence, as I agree that a lot of companies don't need 1 wireless guy, 1 voice guy, etc., and they have multiple people doing multiple things. (of course bigger places will be different). On the other hand, you get in the problem of 'jack of all trades, master of none'. Sometimes I wish I could focus on just one topic, and become an absolute expert on it, but life just doesn't work that way sometimes.


So imagine just passing your CCNP, what do you think would help your career the best? CCIE R/S, or adding on CCVP and CCSP. Remember that professional level exams are still no walk in the part, and IMO a true CCVP/CCSP can provide a lot to a company.


Thoughts? Sorry this is Cisco related, please feel free to put it in other vendor terms

earweed

To put it into other vendor terms...for Microsoft getting the higher level above MCSE or MCITP are probably at least as hard or harder than getting the CCIE so for MS I think most people would (and a lot do) go for more MCITPs or more versions of MCSE

[Deleted User]

earweed wrote: »

To put it into other vendor terms...for Microsoft getting the higher level above MCSE or MCITP are probably at least as hard or harder than getting the CCIE so for MS I think most people would (and a lot do) go for more MCITPs or more versions of MCSE

Personally, I think that people go after more MCITP/MCSE specializations because the upper level Microsoft stuff isn't very feasible.

earweed

xmalachi wrote: »

Personally, I think that people go after more MCITP/MCSE specializations because the upper level Microsoft stuff isn't very feasible.

True, there aren't very many places which would even require that high a certification which is why most of the people who have the higher certs in MS work for MS in one form or another.

Chris:/*

I haven't seen any jobs that would not take an MCSE or MCITP that also says it will accept a MCA. I must say though the price of check marking the requirements for that certification is ridiculous.

it_consultant

The MCA and MCM are for people who have already had their MCSE's or MCITP (or whatever) for many years and need a way to distinguish themselves. Think about it, when MCSE came out, there were very few people who had much experience in IT. Now, people in there 20s have MCSEs, what do they get when they are 40 and have 20 years of experience? Once there, it makes a lot more sense to spend 10k or 20k on a top level certification. Its like going for your master or craftsmen level trade, journeyman will do for most, but something has to differentiate the highly experienced and skilled people.

jovan88

I went through the same questions after passing my CCNP. I think this is why Cisco introduced the CCNA:W, CCNA:S, and CCNA:V. Pass all 3 of those and you are pretty well rounded, because who has the time to pass all the Professional certs? (besides Mike ofcourse )

I do think that having a CCIE is a lot more valuable than having a whole bunch of professional certs, because people know the blood sweat and tears that go into it and it pretty much rules you out as a dumper.

I may be wrong but I believe if you are an absolute master of something you can name your price, but it may be harder to find a job at times. However if you are a jack of all trades guy, finding a job should be easier but your pay may not be as high.

Turgon

there are many ccie dumpers

phoeneous

Turgon wrote: »

there are many ccie dumpers

There are? I thought you have to pass a hands on lab to get ccie?

TheShadow

phoeneous wrote: »

There are? I thought you have to pass a hands on lab to get ccie?

You could still buy all the version 3 labs, not simulations, last year on ebay for around 250 to 400 each. That is why there was all the experimentation with version 4. The open ended questions came and went, the number of trouble tickets went up and down, also the controversy over the 360 program etc. All of that was to stop the blatant dumpers in Asia for one example.

Some were not even using half the allotted time to complete the lab. One would think that they just gave up and left early until it was announced that they passed. There were a higher than average group of numbers issued in 2008 and early 2009. The complaints about the situation almost closed Group Study with the flame wars.

Now there are strong rumors that version 4 may be compromised.

RobertKaucher

That's what...! Oh, the subject of this thread almost had me in fits.

it_consultant wrote: »

The MCA and MCM are for people who have already had their MCSE's or MCITP (or whatever) for many years and need a way to distinguish themselves. Think about it, when MCSE came out, there were very few people who had much experience in IT. Now, people in there 20s have MCSEs, what do they get when they are 40 and have 20 years of experience? Once there, it makes a lot more sense to spend 10k or 20k on a top level certification. Its like going for your master or craftsmen level trade, journeyman will do for most, but something has to differentiate the highly experienced and skilled people.

Very good point! That kind of makes me not think of the MCM as a waste of money.

But I still wish there was something of a medium between the MCITP and the MCM....

networker050184

phoeneous wrote: »

There are? I thought you have to pass a hands on lab to get ccie?

If something can make you some money there will always be people who figure out how to **** at it. Just the facts of life.

Claymoore

Multiple professional certs can make you more flexible when it comes to job hunting. There may be places that don't want a CCIE because they believe they cannot afford them, but they do want someone with a couple of CCxPs. There are definite salary jumps when moving from CCNA to CCNP to CCIE, but what kind of salary benefit does adding another CCxP have? Whatever it is I'm sure it's enough to make the pursuit worthwhile, but not so much to price you out of a position.

Microsoft and some clients are finally starting to list MCM as a requirement in some areas. The new gold competencies require 4 MCITPs or 2 MCMs, for example. The State of Mississippi already requires vendors to have MCMs on staff if they are responding to RFPs on SQL, AD or SharePoint work (notice they also require 5 years of experience).

As it_consultant said, the MCM and MCA are ways for us 'experienced' consultants to differentiate ourselves. I only have a couple more MS exams that interest me or have value to my current position. After those I can only wait until new versions are released or I can pursue an MCM, which is what I am trying to convince my company to fund.

eMeS

it_consultant wrote: »

Think about it, when MCSE came out, there were very few people who had much experience in IT.

Do you seriously believe this statement? It sounds a lot like you're saying that IT didn't exist as a profession before Microsoft came along???

As I recall, Microsoft was somewhat late to the certification game, and was really chasing Novell in the server OS market at the time, who had a fully developed certification program in the late 80's early 90's.

MS

RobertKaucher

eMeS wrote: »

Do you seriously believe this statement? It sounds a lot like you're saying that IT didn't exist as a profession before Microsoft came along???

As I recall, Microsoft was somewhat late to the certification game, and was really chasing Novell in the server OS market at the time, who had a fully developed certification program in the late 80's early 90's.

MS

I'm pretty sure that was not his intent. I think he poorly worded this. I believe the statement was more to point out that there are more people with a wider breadth of experience and at younger ages than in the past. It specifically made me think of the article from 2001 that someone reposted recently that stated that the MCSe was more highly valued than a degree. Due to a number of factors from dumping to more people hodling the cert the value of these certs has dropped since then and this has opened a market for higher level certs.

Paul Boz

I would trade my CCNP, CCIP, and CCDP for a CCIE RS 10/10 times.

GT-Rob

Paul Boz wrote: »

I would trade my CCNP, CCIP, and CCDP for a CCIE RS 10/10 times.

So would I, no doubt, as I know what the damn 'IE takes to do.


However, in my job for example, there is no need for CCIE, and a CCVP/CCWP/CCNP would be worth more to my company. And I dont mean the certs, but the skillsets associated with them.


Assuming it takes the same time to do the 3 I mention vs CCIE R/S (its debatable that it is), is the IE really worth more? IMO yes it is more difficult, but 3 professional certs is no walk in the park, and for a lot of companies, offers a lot more. To come into an interview for my job, the guy who says he is very advanced with wireless, voice, and routing, is going to get the job over the guy who says I only know routing, but I am an absolute expert.

[Deleted User]

If you have the aptitude to complete the CCIE, I'm sure you can knock out the rest of the professional certs. Just a thought, I know it isn't really what you were getting at but it is jsut my opinion. I kinda think that many people that get multiple professional level certs may be capable of the CCIE but don't want to dedicate the time to it. Why not be like Scott Morris and be an expert in everything!

ccnpninja

networker050184 wrote: »

If something can make you some money there will always be people who figure out how to **** at it. Just the facts of life.

well said