Is Ethical Hacker a Negative thing?

DoubleD

Is Ethical Hacker a Negative thing?

just wondered what you think about this
I went on a college course and the teacher taught us comptia. He told us he was undertaking the Ethical Hacker cert himself. We where all interested about this and many of us wanted to do this course as well. He said that the College Wont Do Ethical Hacker as a course and they wont touch it because of the negative side associated with being a hacker. The College didnt want to associate themselfs with it So just wondered if you think its a negative thing to have one and if you do have it would you list it on your CV or do you think its too negative to even go there?

Bl8ckr0uter

While I don't think "hacker" has the same level of negative connotation that "terrorist" or "republican" has, I still think there is a stigma about the word. In reference to the C|EH, I think that the people who really need to know the difference (people in the Infosec) will know what the certification is all about and I don't think it would hurt you. The fact that the DOD recognizes is a big deal as well.

rogue2shadow

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

While I don't think "hacker" has the same level of negative connotation that "terrorist" or "republican" has, I still think there is a stigma about the word. In reference to the C|EH, I think that the people who really need to know the difference (people in the Infosec) will know what the certification is all about and I don't think it would hurt you. The fact that the DOD recognizes is a big deal as well.

+1 indeed.

Bl8ckr0uter

Put it this way. I want to do vehicles sometime in the next months. I am more concerned about ec council rep than the name hacker

Daniel333

This just comes down to catering your resume to the person reading it. Shoot, anything in life really. Don't give people unnecessary information, it's just something they might misunderstand.

SephStorm

I remember when I was in my Army job school, there was a guy there who used to work for government agencies, and he led the students to believe that "by learning Security+, you can learn the skills to be a hacker, and you can make lots of money" We all know this is only slightly off the mark. At one point, we were introducing ourselves for a class and one of the students said he wanted to be an ethical hacker, and the (different)instructor whips around and says he shouldn't say that, he might loose his security clearance...

So it goes both ways. As time goes on, with the increase in the number of EH certs and books, it will become less of a stigma. And the media is jumping on the bandwagon as well.

eMeS

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Put it this way. I want to do vehicles sometime in the next months. I am more concerned about ec council rep than the name hacker

I think a valid point has been made here. Simply because there is an organization offering a set of certifications, doesn't mean that the underlying organization is credible. For instance the various HIPAA certs that one can get....

I don't personally have an opinion one way or the other on this specific topic, but a while back I was doing some reading and I came across this:

Run Away From The CEH Certification

It's way old, but people still comment on it. Many good opinions on both sides of the discussion.

MS

Bl8ckr0uter

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Put it this way. I want to do vehicles sometime in the next months.

Sorry I was typing this from my phone. Stupid smart type lol

In all seriousness, I actually called some reps from ECouncil and it is hard to take them seriously. From the cartoonish logos and website, to the sells person techniques (bait and switch) to the overall lackluster hype about the cert period. I came to the conclusion that I am still going to do it (despite all that) because of some advise from a few people on and off these boards as well as its DOD recognition. Since I want to work for the DOD (or a government agency), if they know what it is and like it, than that is ok with me.

As far as Hippa certs, there are a literally ton of certificates out there and honestly don't know which one(s) is/are good or bad. I really just need a good book on Hippa high tech and the importance of February 2011 and 2012 but that is another thread.

wastedtime

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

In reference to the C|EH, I think that the people who really need to know the difference (people in the Infosec) will know what the certification is all about and I don't think it would hurt you. The fact that the DOD recognizes is a big deal as well.

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Put it this way. I want to do vehicles sometime in the next months. I am more concerned about ec council rep than the name hacker

These are the exact reasons why I have thought about doing the Cert for the last 5 years but didn't start studying it till earlier this year.

SephStorm wrote: »

I remember when I was in my Army job school, there was a guy there who used to work for government agencies, and he led the students to believe that "by learning Security+, you can learn the skills to be a hacker, and you can make lots of money" We all know this is only slightly off the mark. At one point, we were introducing ourselves for a class and one of the students said he wanted to be an ethical hacker, and the (different)instructor whips around and says he shouldn't say that, he might loose his security clearance...

So it goes both ways. As time goes on, with the increase in the number of EH certs and books, it will become less of a stigma. And the media is jumping on the bandwagon as well.

There is a lot of ignorance in the IT community (and everywhere) when it comes to the word "Hacker." I am sure it will pass...at some point.

For now I am just careful how I use the word and in what company I am in when I say it.

Bl8ckr0uter

wastedtime wrote: »

There is a lot of ignorance in the IT community (and everywhere) when it comes to the word "Hacker." I am sure it will pass...at some point.

For now I am just careful how I use the word and in what company I am in when I say it.

I just hope a company that you work for won't be "afraid" of you because you achieve the C|EH and think you are going to steal something. If they are that easily swayed, find a new job. If anything doing a "hacker" cert should make you better at defending from the real "hackers".

wastedtime

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

I just hope a company that you work for won't be "afraid" of you because you achieve the C|EH and think you are going to steal something. If they are that easily swayed, find a new job. If anything doing a "hacker" cert should make you better at defending from the real "hackers".

I was referring to company in the term of group of people not as a business, but yes I agree with you.

the_Grinch

Most colleges do shy away from offering course with hacking for fear that the students will misuse it. At my college they were having trouble getting the course approved and had to change the name (it is called Defensive Countermeasures). Also, we had to sign a waiver relieving the college of any responsibility should we misuse what we learned. This also rings true for colleges that offer virus writing courses.

As for it causing issues when getting hired, I have been hired by two companies without a problem. Most look at it as a good thing should they need the skill. Prior to graduating my employer saw my course list and told me if I did anything illegal he'd be sure to have the book thrown at me. Other then that he was very happy to have me onboard.

I always put everything on my resume because if nothing else it shows drive and a company might not think of a skill that can help them. If any company didn't hire you for having hacking related certifications, I wouldn't want to work with them.

veritas_libertas

the_Grinch wrote: »

Most colleges do shy away from offering course with hacking for fear that the students will misuse it. At my college they were having trouble getting the course approved and had to change the name (it is called Defensive Countermeasures). Also, we had to sign a waiver relieving the college of any responsibility should we misuse what we learned. This also rings true for colleges that offer virus writing courses.

As for it causing issues when getting hired, I have been hired by two companies without a problem. Most look at it as a good thing should they need the skill. Prior to graduating my employer saw my course list and told me if I did anything illegal he'd be sure to have the book thrown at me. Other then that he was very happy to have me on-board.

I always put everything on my resume because if nothing else it shows drive and a company might not think of a skill that can help them. If any company didn't hire you for having hacking related certifications, I wouldn't want to work with them.

LOL, I know of some college students at my Community College that actually did hack into the college. This led to the class being renamed.

superman859

I'm still new to certifications in general but wanted to get some security related ones since I'm going into the job search soon, so I don't know much about EC-Council rep or how respected the CEH cert is.

However, I think that it just depends on how you present it. For me, I'm hoping it won't be an issue since I'm looking to get into security or pen testing anyways - I would expect the interviewee to recognize that having CEH doesn't make me evil. For other positions where they may not be as security aware, I'm not sure...so I'd just present it as a defensive security cert where you learn how people hack your networks so you can make them better.

My state university actually didn't seem to afraid about teaching such things. I took a data security course where we basically learned crypto and wrote viruses, and a network security course where we just learned to hack and had competitions against our classmates. Of course, the professors certainly told us to not do bad stuff with the knowledge, but that was about it. Granted, neither course had "hacking" in the title, probably since upper management at the school wouldn't like that. Security sounds a lot better.

jayc71

Great thread, I've wondered about this in the past since no other certs have the word hacker in the title and the public at large misunderstands the term.

It's cool to hear other people's experiences.