Are the best IT certifications the ones recognized by HR?

N2IT

eMeS wrote: »

I'm generally very skeptical of the motives of people that I don't know, and always skeptical of the motives of recruiters. Job boards are heavily driven by recruiters, many external to companies and some internal. In my experience, the internal ones are just as slimy as the external ones.

Among many issues, one problem with this measurement is that you don't know whether or not the jobs that the recruiters have posted on the job boards are simply the ones that they will make the most commission for filling?

You also don't know if they are trolling for resumes for other, unrelated jobs.

That said, I think it's fine to do this, as long as you're aware of the weaknesses of the measure. Not targeting you specifically, but I've seen postings here over the years that take the results of such searches as the gospel.

MS

I agree 100% recruiters can be very slimy. Let's do some statistical analysis with this one. Let's make a poll of TE members who have interviewed with a "technical recruiters" and when not offered the job they recieved a too bad so sad email. I would bet 50 USD that it's over 50%. So with that being said I agree. My experiences with them doesn't vary from what you said. SLIMY with a capital S

BTW I am glad you chimed in. Always great to have your point of view, very eye opening and to the point. Wisdom spews from your post.

erpadmin

Mike-Mike wrote: »

i have no facts to back me up, but i would disagree with you... i think many jobs list degree or cert requirements to scare off applicants, but they would certianly look past it if need be

+1...the last two jobs I needed a BS for.

The fact that I knew every question in detail really impressed them that I knew my stuff.

At the end of the day, it's really all about brains, and guts.

eMeS

N2IT wrote: »

BTW I am glad you chimed in. Always great to have your point of view, very eye opening and to the point. Wisdom spews from your post.

Bored, can't sleep....trying to watch the Rangers game over the Internet.

I've got game 3 World Series tickets if they can knock out the Yankees.....

MS

msteinhilber

N2IT wrote: »

But wouldn't it make sense to do a search on the job boards and see what certs get the most hits?

Every job I've had throughout my career were never published on a job board, most weren't published anywhere really. I suspect similar is true for a large portion of jobs out there, so how much weight can one place in what they see on a job listing on some job board?

It doesn't hurt to take a peek to see what's being sought after, but there's a lot more out there that you wouldn't know about unless you really networked yourself (knowing as in both available jobs as well as what some aspects of the industry are really looking for in people). This bit of knowledge, largely gleaned as I've started to try and network more (which I had not done as much if at all since leaving the sales world) has really made me re-evaluate looking at job boards to gauge what's being sought after. That and the fact that most of the job boards now seem to have transitioned from a mash-up of 75% somewhat crappy contract jobs (IMO) and 5% decent jobs and 20% scam's to 90% contract, 19% scams and 1% decent jobs have really made me reconsider the whole job board thing. I still look at them, but I don't place much weight in any trends I seem to find on them.

varelg

Not scaring applicants, but I'd say it's the HR's wish list more than anything else. Like a probe to see what's on offer. Applicants get hired even without satisfying the full list of requirements.
Of course there's something to be said about choosing the market segment you try to cover with your cert. As Turgon said, for a niche you'll need to demonstrate experience. The best driver towards a cert is still in my opinion at least, the genuine interest in that subject that cert objectives cover.

N2IT

msteinhilber wrote: »

Every job I've had throughout my career were never published on a job board, most weren't published anywhere really. I suspect similar is true for a large portion of jobs out there, so how much weight can one place in what they see on a job listing on some job board?

It doesn't hurt to take a peek to see what's being sought after, but there's a lot more out there that you wouldn't know about unless you really networked yourself (knowing as in both available jobs as well as what some aspects of the industry are really looking for in people). This bit of knowledge, largely gleaned as I've started to try and network more (which I had not done as much if at all since leaving the sales world) has really made me re-evaluate looking at job boards to gauge what's being sought after. That and the fact that most of the job boards now seem to have transitioned from a mash-up of 75% somewhat crappy contract jobs (IMO) and 5% decent jobs and 20% scam's to 90% contract, 19% scams and 1% decent jobs have really made me reconsider the whole job board thing. I still look at them, but I don't place much weight in any trends I seem to find on them.

Well to be honest everytime I got a job that was related to the job board they found me not the other way around. I think seeking on job boards is a waste of time. I merely post my resume out there and let them find me. I know it doesn't sound very proactive, but, for me personal I have the most success that way.

Paul Boz

The harder a certification is to obtain or the fewer of them that exist in the market the less you'll see them on job boards. I'm SANS GCFW #3038 (and that's the total number of people who have challenged the exam, not the number who have passed it). I could crawl the job boards for a week and find maybe one or two listings which mention the GCFW. That doesn't mean the certification is devalued.

Beyond that point, you also have to consider the fact that once you get to a certain job level, standard job boards provide almost no value any more. At a certain point, social networking and having your **** together counts for far more.

Also keep in mind that HR isn't always directly involved in the job search process. I didn't go through HR at my current job until I'd been interviewed for the position. Interacting with HR was an afterthought and reserved for paperwork once I decided I'd take the job. This isn't uncommon at all. At my last employer there wasn't even a legitimate HR department. Every resume came through to my manager. That's the case here as well.

I would say that one should pursue education and certifications that will provide that individual with a distinct market advantage over other individuals with similar skillsets. That's how I approach certs. I could go get all of the Comptia certs, a handfull of MS, some wireless, etc, but it would be fluff that wouldn't provide a direct value to me. Every cert that I have has been to increase my knowledge. The value of the certs to a human resources department has never entered the equation.

N2IT

Paul Boz wrote: »

The harder a certification is to obtain or the fewer of them that exist in the market the less you'll see them on job boards. I'm SANS GCFW #3038 (and that's the total number of people who have challenged the exam, not the number who have passed it). I could crawl the job boards for a week and find maybe one or two listings which mention the GCFW. That doesn't mean the certification is devalued.

Beyond that point, you also have to consider the fact that once you get to a certain job level, standard job boards provide almost no value any more. At a certain point, social networking and having your **** together counts for far more.

Also keep in mind that HR isn't always directly involved in the job search process. I didn't go through HR at my current job until I'd been interviewed for the position. Interacting with HR was an afterthought and reserved for paperwork once I decided I'd take the job. This isn't uncommon at all. At my last employer there wasn't even a legitimate HR department. Every resume came through to my manager. That's the case here as well.

I would say that one should pursue education and certifications that will provide that individual with a distinct market advantage over other individuals with similar skillsets. That's how I approach certs. I could go get all of the Comptia certs, a handfull of MS, some wireless, etc, but it would be fluff that wouldn't provide a direct value to me. Every cert that I have has been to increase my knowledge. The value of the certs to a human resources department has never entered the equation.

You make some really good points.

It does seem the longer and more experienced you are in IT, the better chance of landing a job outside the job boards are.

Sabalo

.....

You're supposed to use this stuff to get a job?

Kidding, kidding.

I try to balance my attention between the stuff I want to learn and the stuff I feel I need to learn to get where I want to be. While I use job boards to track trends, I don't let it dictate what I work on so much as I use it to research new / unknown (to me) certs. I use this forum in the same way... I'd never even heard of ITIL before I started lurking here.

Similarly, I don't let an employer dictate the certifications I am working on unless that employer wants to foot the bill and allow for time during work to work on said certification. I do what I like to do, and reap the benefits (or lack thereof) when I finish.