Certified master?

MrAgent

I didnt see a forum for this, so I figured this would be the next closest place to put this.

MCM Training Courses | Advanced Computer Certification | Microsoft Certified Master

Has anyone considered working toward this? This is something that is a long term goal for me (long term being 3-5 years). Anyone else?

gateway

Nope. Far too expensive and too far to go for training etc.

MrAgent

You think certified master is bad, you should see the certified architect.

Microsoft Certified Architect Program

QHalo

I think Claymoore is the only one that's working toward it right now. I remember him saying he's very close to meeting the requirements in another thread.

gateway

Didn't know about MCA. That looks pretty intensive!

Also wasn't aware Claymoore was working towards MCM - I think he should document his journey!

I haven't seen either of these certs being required in the UK for any jobs, however it must hold a pretty big weight if you did have one/them.

Who knows. Maybe one day - I just don't think I have a keen enough interest in any one MS technology to warrant even attempting this. The problem is that MS update their software every 3/4 years so how long are these certs good for? I would want it to hold its cred for at least 10 years to make it worthwhile.

SteveLord

I think I read somewhere that there is only a handful of MCAs in the US.

QHalo

The link has the updated names of all the MCM/A's worldwide.

MrAgent

A former boss of mine, who was also the VP of the company, is a MCA. He told me there are fewer than 10,000 worldwide.

MrAgent

Nice. Didnt see the list of MCA's. My former boss is Mark Jefferson of WINS.

za3bour

Too much expensive so you have to ask is it worth it ?

earweed

It is WAY more than a 3-5 year goal. MCM or MCA are practically lifetime career achievement goals and the expense involved and the training make it really difficult to achieve. You practically need corporate sponsorship to attempt it.
It's like the MS version of the CCIE but more expensive and harder to obtain.

RobertKaucher

Brent Ozar did a bunch of blog posts on his MCM journey. Pretty interesting.

+1 to Earweed on this. If you have not completed the MCSE and MCITP: Enterprise Admin certifications yet it is unlikely that this could be a 3-5 year goal unless you have already fulfilled all the other prerequirements.

MrAgent

Ive been a Windows Engineer since 2000. I would say I have the other requirements done.

My company will send me to the required training when it comes time. That is if I am still with this company.

earweed

Why only the Sec+ cert listed? Do you have any others yet?
Most of us only had the info from your signature. It's still a REALLY big deal to go for the MCM and to set a 3-5 year timeline.

RobertKaucher

MrAgent wrote: »

Ive been a Windows Engineer since 2000. I would say I have the other requirements done.

My company will send me to the required training when it comes time. That is if I am still with this company.

If that's the case then it's just a matter of getting the required certs. 3-5 years is certainly possible. Then you have to get started on the required pre-reading and submitting yourself for review by the MCM board, or whatever it is called.

I would love to see how this develops.

Turgon

MrAgent wrote: »

I didnt see a forum for this, so I figured this would be the next closest place to put this.

MCM Training Courses | Advanced Computer Certification | Microsoft Certified Master

Has anyone considered working toward this? This is something that is a long term goal for me (long term being 3-5 years). Anyone else?

You should do certifications if they are on the critical path for your career. In that context they are useful but in and of themselves useless but interesting nontheless if they do not meet the critical path.

For me, certifications offer a useful structured framework to learn something about the capabilities of a technology. They do not however provide context for your work in the field. That's the stuff that pays the bills and defines your career path. But well studied for you could get some insights that enables you to accelerate your career as you may have a solution to a problem that is perceived as *important* by the people that mark your card in terms of bonus and promotion.

Some certs tick a box. They might get you an interview or even a position. Beyond that you are on your own and have to be useful and add value. In some cases simply having the cert may cover that i.e partner status. In others your usefulness comes down to how well you can fix things or come up with solutions in the field. This requires knowledge, but also intelligence to find the *right* solution. No certification can teach you that.

There is a tendancy to look at the certification path from basic to intermediate to expert as a natural progression to the big time. This isn't necessarily so. Increasingly I see the certified slotted into operations spaces that are a diminishing currency. It's your portfolio of work that defines your progression so concentrate on that first! Avoid the treadmill of certs. They take time, energy and money. They are a factor for your success, but other things also require these resources if you are to succeed. Spend time, money and energy wisely. Late nights persuing cert x may pay off. But late nights getting project x through at work properly may reap you more bang for your time and buck.

My advice is to look hard at what will accelerate your career and do that. If it is master level certifications then take them. If it is not then concentrate your time and energies on delivering impressive things in the field, do your own research and save the money you would spend on training resources and trainers to get a certification. You can pick up the premium monikers later when you have time for that if you really want to.

marcels

Only two Masters in New Zealand, both are M$ employees. I wonder what kind of job you'd need to do to justify this cert, I mean you'd expect higher pay than an MCITP etc cert.

I'd be interested in this but as I understand it you have to sit the exams and interviews in the US, this would push the cost up and up.

Turgon

marcels wrote: »

Only two Masters in New Zealand, both are M$ employees. I wonder what kind of job you'd need to do to justify this cert, I mean you'd expect a high pay that an MCITP etc cert.

I'd be interested in this but as I understand it you have to sit the exams and interviews in the US, this would push the cost up and up.

Certs do not equate to high pay. They are a contributor. In 1999 lots of people were chasing the Master CNE. It was only a couple of more exams really but you could loot rates as a contractor if you had that and land a well paid job even if you didnt know what you were doing. Many MCNE's didnt. Some did. But back then the industry was pulverised with expectation and a very palpable fear on two fronts:

1. We need to get this done
2. We have no idea how to do it

Outcome = You got hired.

Today things have matured. Lots of people have qualifications and they are still important. But what is more important is the people doing the hiring have more insight (sometimes right and sometimes wrong) in terms of what they expect from a practitioner.

In otherwords you need a demonstrable portfolio of accomplishments behind you that you can defend not only in an interview, but when you engage with your peers in the field. Your peers are generally more qualified and experienced than they were in 1999. So are the expectations of a 'Master'.

marcels

I agree with you.

I didn't really explain myself well, but I was coming from a personal level. i.e. why would I invest in this cert? It would cost me a lot of time and money. I haven't seen it detailed in any job description in New Zealand.

Unless I could get a big salary jump or my employers funded it, I wouldn't see the point.

Looking at the Masters list I see a lot on M$ employees, I expect they're not having to pay or dedicate a lot of 'free' time to get these certs, it would just be part of their job.

Hence my question, what kind of job would justify this cert? I know a lot of IT Architects with no vendor certs at all, so you're right to say that you need to have the portfolio behind you.

Turgon

perhaps a job with a large partner

JBrown

I have seen a few MCM blogs, and from what I gathered so far its not just another cert. This is on much higher level than anybody expects. You get partnered with Microsoft

MCM – A personal perspective

Daniel333

Honestly, I don't know how people afford these things. (My job won't buy me a Console cable!) I also have no idea how they are preparing too. The requirements are so vague.

I just know for me, if this isn't something I can study on the train to/from work then run some weekend labs it's not an option.

JBrown

Daniel333 wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know how people afford these things. (My job won't buy me a Console cable!) I also have no idea how they are preparing too. The requirements are so vague.

I just know for me, if this isn't something I can study on the train to/from work then run some weekend labs it's not an option.

That is the whole point of MCM training. At some point in their life's these guys decided that enough is enough and stopped working for douchebags that would not buy them a console cable. and look how much they achieved.

RobertKaucher

Daniel333 wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know how people afford these things. (My job won't buy me a Console cable!) I also have no idea how they are preparing too. The requirements are so vague.

I just know for me, if this isn't something I can study on the train to/from work then run some weekend labs it's not an option.

JBrown wrote: »

That is the whole point of MCM training. At some point in their life's these guys decided that enough is enough and stopped working for douchebags that would not buy them a console cable. and look how much they achieved.

Well the MCM is not a certification for a mid-level network or server admin. This is designed for highly experienced engineers who work as consultants *regularly* building multi-site (regional and international) enterprise systems.

These are the guys who when you see their presentations at a conference or a users group you think: "Wow, I really don't know as much as I thought I did!" And not because the information was "over your head" but because the the amount of command they posses of the information is insanely deep. You might understand AD replication and how it works, but you don't understand it the way they do...

JBrown wrote: »

I have seen a few MCM blogs, and from what I gathered so far its not just another cert. This is on much higher level than anybody expects. You get partnered with Microsoft

MCM – A personal perspective

Exactly! You are learning the internals of the platform from people who help to create it! The type of social network you build from that is just amazing.

creamy_stew

Daniel333 wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know how people afford these things. (My job won't buy me a Console cable!) I also have no idea how they are preparing too. The requirements are so vague.

I just know for me, if this isn't something I can study on the train to/from work then run some weekend labs it's not an option.

For some reason, this made me chuckle.

Anyway, if you post in the cisco forums, I'm sure an SF member will send you one. You typically get one with every cisco device.

blargoe

Yes, these are they guys presenting the breakout sessions at the large MS related conferences.

From what I have read on some blogs in the past, MCM's are usually funded by large consulting firms and Microsoft partners. They can charge more $$$ if they have MCM/MCA in their employ.

Claymoore

Daniel333 wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know how people afford these things. (My job won't buy me a Console cable!) I also have no idea how they are preparing too. The requirements are so vague.

I just know for me, if this isn't something I can study on the train to/from work then run some weekend labs it's not an option.

I'm guessing you work in internal IT. To justify an MCM, you need to be somewhere where IT is a profit center instead of a cost center - that means consulting or per-incident support fees. You also need to work for a partner that supports the large clients that can afford the fat MCM consulting fees. Until Microsoft starts making MCMs a requirement for certain partnership statuses, the market for MCMs will be more limited than that of CCIEs.

An MCM can be used as a force multiplier where they work on designs and provide support for multiple deployments, not installing software and moving mailboxes. I would also expect a lot of travel and pre-sales work as well, so you need to make sure you want the job that requires an MCM before you invest the money in the pursuit of one.