New Horizons = Useless

PawNtheSandman

Does anyone else here go to New Horizons?

I started there in November 2003. I purchased a plan which would train me for A+, Net+, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, CNA, SCNP.

I completed and passed A+, Net+ and passed my first MCP in November. I am ready to take my next MCP (70-290), so I call trying to get a test voucher. (Per the agreement, I get free test vouchers, and I have a "pass test guarantee" basically I can take the cert test as many times as I want until I pass for no additional cost)

Anyway, they refused to give me the test voucher.

It seems the New Horizons I went to was on the brink of bankrupsy but was bought out and saved. It seems the new people aren't validating the contracts made with the old New Horizons. So if I want to take tests I have to pay for the vouchers myself now then try to submit a claim form to the government to hope to get reinburstment.


Anyway, I now need to get a voucher for the 70-290. Anyone know where to get one cheap?

/usr

I've been to a New Horizons center once...it was fine.

Of course, I've never taken courses there...so I don't know. It seems that NH would be in charge of reimbursing you. Contact another office or the HQ. I'm assuming you still have proof that your purchases this contract, correct?

PawNtheSandman

They are going to mail me an offer to give me a partial refund.

I paid like $15,000 for everything and I am not nearly half way done, but my father doubts they will offer anything near half that amount back, so at this point I am probably better of continuing the classes and paying out of pocket for the vouchers.

But even the $15,000 is a rip off. For how they teach and what they offer, they aren't worth $5,000. Teacher sits there and reads the Microsoft book to us. Then we do stupid labs on the computers for a week. Then it is

"alright, go take the test"

it is BS.

I would have been better off taking the $15,000 and building my own test lab with all the operating systems, all of the network hardware, all of the study guides, cbt nuggets, transcender, etc and I bet it would have been 1/4 of the price.

TranscenderMichael

Never ever ever ever EVER pay for promises. Don't pay for promises of vouchers unless they're in your hand. Don't pay for promises of employment. Don't pay for long training programs in advance or promises of "take as many classes as you can for a year" (or worse yet, for life), because that training center may pull up stakes tomorrow - don't laugh, it's happened. I've seen far too many people burned by the above examples.

I, too, would advise that you contact the NH corporate office. Best of luck to you!

/usr

There's nothing you can do about this now, but I'm just curious, why didn't you try a course first to see if you liked their teaching methods, before dropping $15k on a year of training?

TranscenderMichael

PawNtheSandman wrote:

They are going to mail me an offer to give me a partial refund.

I paid like $15,000 for everything and I am not nearly half way done, but my father doubts they will offer anything near half that amount back, so at this point I am probably better of continuing the classes and paying out of pocket for the vouchers.

But even the $15,000 is a rip off. For how they teach and what they offer, they aren't worth $5,000. Teacher sits there and reads the Microsoft book to us. Then we do stupid labs on the computers for a week. Then it is

"alright, go take the test"

it is BS.

I would have been better off taking the $15,000 and building my own test lab with all the operating systems, all of the network hardware, all of the study guides, cbt nuggets, transcender, etc and I bet it would have been 1/4 of the price.

You've discovered (painfully) the exact reason why most of us recommend self-study methods.

If you feel that the remaining courses aren't worth whatever refund they are offering you, take the refund and invest in that home network.

PawNtheSandman

/usr wrote:

There's nothing you can do about this now, but I'm just curious, why didn't you try a course first to see if you liked their teaching methods, before dropping $15k on a year of training?

It was either them or going to ITT tech across the street, and I wasn't going to pay their outrageously high prices.

In other news, that ITT is like one of the few still open after their fiasco.

Drakonblayde

You don't have a local state run technical school?

TeKniques

I have read and heard from numerous sources (yes anecdotal evidence) that ITT and New Horizons are a huge ripoff. The main thing is that the teachers do not know how to teach and they are not true "in the field" professionals as the schools claim them to be. This means mainly that the students just don't learn and instead they rack up huge amounts of debt while the schools get their government guaranteed aid money (ITT anyways).

I feel the same about Technical Colleges, I think that once they get your cash from the Government they could care less about you or the quality of education you get. My advice to people would be to stay away from these places and go to a local community college instead.

/usr

A New Horizons rep came to the place where I work, trying to sell training. When I found out they offered the CEH, I brought it up. He began telling me how he was so into hacking and how he could get into any wireless network...because he had Netstumbler on his PDA.

I smiled, nodded, and left.

Ricka182

I wil go with self train for my future. I spent 10k on clsses, and got not a lot of knowledge out of it. I learn more by having a lab to play with as often as I want, as opposed to 6 hours of lab time a week. I had a friend who went to local tech school. 3 moths prior to completion, with no warning, they filed for bankruptcy, and closed their doors. The owners got taken to court, and got away with some loophole in the law that says by claiming the business wasn't so hot, it would ensure their failure as a business, so they said nothing. My friend lost almost 12k, and now works in a Toyota dealership.

TranscenderMichael

/usr wrote:

A New Horizons rep came to the place where I work, trying to sell training. When I found out they offered the CEH, I brought it up. He began telling me how he was so into hacking and how he could get into any wireless network...because he had Netstumbler on his PDA.

I smiled, nodded, and left.

ooooh, he's teh 1337 h4xx0r!

TranscenderMichael

TeKniques wrote:

I have read and heard from numerous sources (yes anecdotal evidence) that ITT and New Horizons are a huge ripoff. The main thing is that the teachers do not know how to teach and they are not true "in the field" professionals as the schools claim them to be. This means mainly that the students just don't learn and instead they rack up huge amounts of debt while the schools get their government guaranteed aid money (ITT anyways).

I feel the same about Technical Colleges, I think that once they get your cash from the Government they could care less about you or the quality of education you get. My advice to people would be to stay away from these places and go to a local community college instead.

Not all of them; there are exceptions. People like me (who have been in the field) teach at places like ITT, New Horizons, Community Colleges and Universities as well. Sadly, there are far too many of them who aren't "field tested". My advice is, if you *must* spend your money on a course, make sure you first get student recommendations of the teacher whose class you want to take. If they say, "He pretty much read to me from the book," then you know what to do... RUN AWAY!

drewm320

I've had good experiences with New Horizons although they only involve taking exams, not training. I also happen to know a guy who teaches classes for them from time to time. He may be the exception but he definitely knows the stuff he's teaching.

Ten9t6

TranscenderMichael wrote:

/usr wrote:

A New Horizons rep came to the place where I work, trying to sell training. When I found out they offered the CEH, I brought it up. He began telling me how he was so into hacking and how he could get into any wireless network...because he had Netstumbler on his PDA.

I smiled, nodded, and left.

ooooh, he's teh 1337 h4xx0r!

hahah...Fear the PDA running Netstumbler

I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight, knowing he is out there with his mad skillz....

I am glad you were smart enough to walk..From the sounds of his comments, I guess they don't teach the "E" in "CEH".....

TranscenderMichael

Ten9t6 wrote:

I am glad you were smart enough to walk..From the sounds of his comments, I guess they don't teach the "E" in "CEH".....

Which brings up an excellent point... how DO you certify the "E" in "CEH"? It's just not possible.

/usr

Which brings up an excellent point... how DO you certify the "E" in "CEH"? It's just not possible.

Hope the person taking the exam is responsible enough not to use what they learn maliciously. I don't know about the next guy, but I have no desire to snoop around on networks I don't have permission to do so on.

Ricka182

/usr wrote:

Which brings up an excellent point... how DO you certify the "E" in "CEH"? It's just not possible.

Hope the person taking the exam is responsible enough not to use what they learn maliciously. I don't know about the next guy, but I have no desire to snoop around on networks I don't have permission to do so on.

I don't know jack about Security, or wireless networks, but that guy sounds like an abso jackass. It can't be that easy to break into wireless without someone seeing his "netstumbler pda". I'm sure lots of unethical hackers have gone for the CEH, so they can try to learn what's being done to stop them.

Webmaster

/usr wrote:

Which brings up an excellent point... how DO you certify the "E" in "CEH"? It's just not possible.

Hope the person taking the exam is responsible enough not to use what they learn maliciously. I don't know about the next guy, but I have no desire to snoop around on networks I don't have permission to do so on.

And hope the person takes the Code of Ethics as seriously as he should.

/usr

The rep wasn't a CEH. I highly doubt he even knew the first thing about wireless security. He probably just picked up some lingo doing sales pitches.

Webmaster

/usr wrote:

He probably just picked up some lingo doing sales pitches.

Unfortunately that happens a lot, and even more unfortunately those parrots actually have influence and cause a chain-reaction of incompetence, as some will smile, nod, and stay, and eventually repeat the same nonsense.

TranscenderMichael

/usr wrote:

The rep wasn't a CEH. I highly doubt he even knew the first thing about wireless security. He probably just picked up some lingo doing sales pitches.

I've seen CIOs/CTOs grab random bits of lingo as well.

"Hey, this IPv6 thing... do you think we should implement it for our internal network?"

keatron

Take my word for it, if he's bragging about using netstumbler, then he's never hacked or even attempted to hack any wireless network where even the most basic security principles are in place.

D-boy

I actually had no certifications and was considering New Horizons about a year or to ago. I even went as far a meeting with a sales person and talking about possibilities of me taking classes for the same program as you, I think it was called or still is The Cyber Defender program. They were also going to charge me $15,000 for (A+, Net+, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, SCNP). After the sales person told me the price my face dropped. There was no way I could pay or take out a loan to pay that off for the rest of my life. I really wasn't in a position to have that much financial debt over my head. So I deicide not to take any classes and opted for self-study. I have made progress towards getting certified, but it has been slow. I have obtained all my 3 cert. by self-study through books. I just decided that it was too expense for what they offer. I mean it might take me longer, but with self-study I can get those same cert's for half or quarter of the price they are charging. Now reading your bad experience with them has certainly made me realize how good a decsion that was. Sorry to hear that by the way, I have had good experience taking exams in there centers, but just never taken courses.

TeKniques

D-boy wrote:

I think it was called or still is The Cyber Defender program.

Laff

A program with a name like that doesn't deserve $1.00