WGU admission changes

arwesarwes Posts: 633Member ■■■□□□□□□□
Anyone else notice this change on the admissions page? I don't know when this was implemented, it wasn't there the last time I looked at the page (a few months ago).

Online Admissions | College of Information Technology | Western Governors University Online
Special requirements for WGU’s IT programs

Submit verification of any IT certifications received through prior academic and work experience.
Demonstrate IT experience either through:
    An associate’s degree in IT (A.S. or A.A.S. acceptable).
    Transferable IT certifications earned within the last 5 years. Click here to see what IT certifications may transfer to WGU.
    A resume showing three-plus years of IT work experience.

We require these prerequisites because our research has determined that students entering these programs need to have demonstrated strong IT abilities in order to handle the rigors of a difficult IT curriculum.

I'm guessing the failure rate in the IT areas was starting to creep up.
[size=-2]Started WGU - BS IT:NDM on 1/1/13, finished 12/31/14
Working on: Waiting on the mailman to bring me a diploma
What's left: Graduation![/size]

Comments

  • eansdadeansdad Posts: 775Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    ^^ --- I agree, trying to learn IT from the ground up this way would be a lot harder for someone with out any knowledge of IT. Since none of the classes have true pre-reqs someone could come in with nothing and start on the CCNA courses which I don't think would be a wise move. They should have a basic IT test (take sample questions from the A+, Net+ and CIW Foundations) for people that don't have a technical background.
  • petedudepetedude Posts: 1,510Member
    eansdad wrote: »
    ^^ --- I agree, trying to learn IT from the ground up this way would be a lot harder for someone with out any knowledge of IT.

    Wow. Dodged that bullet, as my Associate's wasn't in IT-- although I do have a number of years' experience in the field.
    Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
    --Will Rogers
  • erpadminerpadmin Posts: 4,165Member
    eansdad wrote: »
    ^^ --- I agree, trying to learn IT from the ground up this way would be a lot harder for someone with out any knowledge of IT. Since none of the classes have true pre-reqs someone could come in with nothing and start on the CCNA courses which I don't think would be a wise move. They should have a basic IT test (take sample questions from the A+, Net+ and CIW Foundations) for people that don't have a technical background.


    The CIW Foundations questions with BASIC HTML questions would be a great test for those wanting to get into a IT degree. I would even go one step further and suggest to WGU that if folks have NO IT experience, but want the IT degree they should only do the IT only degree. That would be ok too.

    That resume jazz is new though, but I'm not surprised. I saw one guy in the WGU IT community who knew nothing about IT yet was going into one of the high-level emphasis. It would not surprise me if folks like him washed out. Yet I've seen other students who know nothing about IT apply themselves well...though IMO, there is at least one student who I suspect may have succumbed to the dark side of dumping. When you consistently get really high scores, but yet can't articulate the material you score high on...chances are, you dumped. Of course, I can't prove that, and I might be completely wrong (after all, some people are just naturally great savants at and for tests)...but barring that....my spider-sense definitely tingles....lmao.

    Mind you, any of us can **** and call it a day. But that's actually why I like coming here...because I can prepare for my certs properly AND be proud that I earned it. Same thing with my degree...I can say that I earned it and not use any illicit shortcuts to get there.
  • erpadminerpadmin Posts: 4,165Member
    arwes wrote: »
    Anyone else notice this change on the admissions page? I don't know when this was implemented, it wasn't there the last time I looked at the page (a few months ago).

    Online Admissions | College of Information Technology | Western Governors University Online



    I'm guessing the failure rate in the IT areas was starting to creep up.


    From the http://www.wgu.edu/admissions/why_IT_requirements_pop:

    "At WGU, we are focused on helping students learn, prosper, and, most importantly, graduate.

    From our ongoing research into student success at WGU, it has been determined that students entering this program need to have demonstrated strong IT abilities in order to handle the rigors of a challenging IT curriculum.

    This requirement is in place because we have found that first-time college students are overly optimistic that they will be able to handle the coursework online, and when the challenges of that coursework and assessments become too great to handle, they often drop. When a student is unable to continue in the program and drops, the student is left with school loans and frustrated dreams.

    We believe the correct admission decision before enrollment is the best approach to help you succeed and reach your professionals goal.

    Can you complete the minimum requirements elsewhere and then apply to WGU? Yes, by all means. Speak to a WGU Enrollment Counselor for additional advice or for further clarification."
  • petedudepetedude Posts: 1,510Member
    erpadmin wrote: »
    From the http://www.wgu.edu/admissions/why_IT_requirements_pop:

    "At WGU, we are focused on helping students learn, prosper, and, most importantly, graduate.
    [/I]

    OK, after some thought, I've got to say: this is overkill.

    I don't think the degree looks nearly as good as a solely a transfer degree, and not all students need to do all those things to demonstrate commitment/readiness. So here's what I think should have been the requirements:
    * Two or more transferable certifications, OR a certificate in an IT-related concentration from a regionally accredited school
    * A college-level mathematics course
    * An admissions essay

    If people can't/won't write an admissions essay, they won't pass the performance assessments. If they can't cut the math, then that might be a good screener. I don't think lots of certifications are the answer, because they give the impression the whole program is about how many certs/how fast you can pass them-- yet it would be helpful to have a prospective student have some exposure to the testing/study processes necessary to complete objective assessments.

    I could see slightly more stringent requirements for certain concentrations (e.g. related certifications), but that's about it.

    I'm tempted to say something about this to my mentor. . . thoughts anybody?
    Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
    --Will Rogers
  • Alif_Sadida_EkinAlif_Sadida_Ekin Posts: 341Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Well the final three projects; Technical Writing, IT Portfolio, and Capstone do require a firm grasp on IT concepts you've either learned through the degree program or have real world experience with. If someone was completely new to IT, the program itself would be a little rough since you don't have much guidance from an actual teacher other than the course mentors, and even then you're pretty much on your own when it comes to learning the material. Although trudging through the courses may be possible with absolutely no IT experience, I would say that the final three projects will pretty much make or break the individual. I have adequate real world experience and I found them rather difficult. I honestly don't know how I would have passed them if I didn't use examples from projects I've done at work.
    MCSA, MCTS, CIW Professional, A+, Network+, Security+, Project+

    BS, Information Technology
  • erpadminerpadmin Posts: 4,165Member
    petedude wrote: »
    I'm tempted to say something about this to my mentor. . . thoughts anybody?

    Why would your mentor care though? You're already in and you're doing what you need to do. Your mentor doesn't even deal with enrollment.

    If you really wanted to impact WGU policy, you're better off going through the alumni services route, preferably after you graduate.

    I have NO DOUBT that we will be getting hit for $$$ after the diploma is in our hands....I have no problem giving a good amount, but not without asking for stuff to get done. icon_twisted.gif
  • spigetyspigety Posts: 13Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    petedude wrote: »
    I'm tempted to say something about this to my mentor. . . thoughts anybody?

    This isn't the only degree that they have made certain admissions changes to. Someone posted a thread around a month ago on the DegreeInfo forums about how the math (teaching?) degree has a lot stricter guidelines now too.

    I'm kind of glad they are doing something like this, it adds more credibility to the school.
  • veritas_libertasveritas_libertas CISSP, GIAC x5, CompTIA x5 Greenville, SC USAPosts: 5,735Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I've added the new admission requirements to the initial post on this thread.

    I believe these admission requirements are an excellent idea. It's one thing to walk into an IT degree path at a university you can attend in person but, it's another thing entirely to do one online.
    Currently working on: Linux and Python
  • Excellent1Excellent1 Posts: 461Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    I've added the new admission requirements to the initial post on this thread.

    I believe these admission requirements are an excellent idea. It's one thing to walk into an IT degree path at a university you can attend in person but, it's another thing entirely to do one online.

    Obviously everyone has their own take on this and I certainly respect your opinion. That said, however, I have to say that I think the requirements are too strict. I will have 34 CU's done by the end of December, and should easily have over 50 in my first term. Had I waited a couple months to start, I would not be qualified to be in the program I am in.

    I understand why they are doing it, and I certainly agree with increasing the previous requirements somewhat, but I think they went too far.

    It's very easy for all of us sitting securely within our degree path to take a selfish stance on this and admire the new admission requirement because of the theoretical boost in prestige we think it lends our degree. I think putting more hoops for otherwise competent people to jump through in order to attend is simply a bad idea.

    Again, just stating my opinion, but I feel very fortunate to have started when I did. My condolences to those not so lucky.
  • veritas_libertasveritas_libertas CISSP, GIAC x5, CompTIA x5 Greenville, SC USAPosts: 5,735Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I'm not going to start an argument because I know you meant to no insult to me but think about this:
    Excellent1 wrote: »
    It's very easy for all of us sitting securely within our degree path to take a selfish stance on this and admire the new admission requirement because of the theoretical boost in prestige we think it lends our degree.

    LOL, I already have an AAS in Computer Networking Technology so I would have been approved either way.
    I think putting more hoops for otherwise competent people to jump through in order to attend is simply a bad idea.
    Competent to what extent? No IT experience, no college hands-on or at least a class lecture on something PC related, and not even at least an IT certification? Sorry but that seems rather computer ignorant to me.

    WGU in the end has to find someway to make sure that those coming succeed. As is stands WGU has a very high failure rate. They don't want to make it easier, so the only other option is to raise expectations for in coming students.

    I respect your opinion and this post is only to clarify my thoughts more clearly to you and hope that maybe you can see my thoughts more clearly.
    Currently working on: Linux and Python
  • Excellent1Excellent1 Posts: 461Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    I'm not going to start an argument because I know you meant to no insult to me but think about this:



    LOL, I already have an AAS in Computer Networking Technology so I would have been approved either way.

    Competent to what extent? No IT experience, no college hands-on or at least a class lecture on something PC related, and not even at least an IT certification? Sorry but that seems rather computer ignorant to me.

    WGU in the end has to find someway to make sure that those coming succeed. As is stands WGU has a very high failure rate. They don't want to make it easier, so the only other option is to raise expectations for in coming students.

    I respect your opinion and this post is only to clarify my thoughts more clearly to you and hope that maybe you can see my thoughts more clearly.

    I wasn't directing my comments at you, so I suppose I shouldn't have quoted you. You just happened to be the last post and I quoted rather than replied, so my apologies. You obviously felt insulted, and that was not my intent.

    Regarding your comment "seems rather computer ignorant to me", that's where you and I diverge. The requirements don't specify whether you have hands-on experience. I've worked with computers for years, but not in an "official" capacity that I could use to pass the admission requirements. Based on the fact that my experience has not been in an official IT capacity, I of course do not have certifications that would fit the requirement either. That said, the absence of official IT positions on a resume or IT certs does not make one "computer ignorant" as you apparently choose to see it.

    In any case, done is done. As I said, I agree with the intent of what they were trying to do (weed out those unable to succeed), but not the manner in which they chose to go about doing it. That's all I was trying to convey.
  • chmorinchmorin Posts: 1,446Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    WGU is a highly self-motivated enviornment in which your own persiveriance will aid you in success. You are given resources that you may use, but are not forced on you. People join the IT program with almost no knowledge of how to save a file in a different format, and no self dedication to the field. Because of the unique enviornment, WGU needs a way to see if the individual can focus on their own and are actually interested in the content and want to succede. I belive their new setup for IT entrances are doing a perfect job of just that. And considering I am 20 and have earned and paid for every credit and certificaiton I have gotten, I think it is not very much to ask of people who actually want to succede. Considering I personally would of met the new criteria at my time of application, I see no issues.

    Want to be in IT? Why would you complain about needing to get a certification to get an IT degree? To me it makes the IT degrees from WGU have a high calibar than previously. Who wouldn't want to work for that?

    Sorry, I'm tired of people complaning about things not being 'easy'. If you want in WGU IT, then meet the requirements. If you want in a big college, go make tens of thousands of dollars from nothing while having a high GPA. Gee, I wonder which is asking more of you. The typical college, or WGU who just wants a certification?
    Currently Pursuing
    WGU (BS in IT Network Administration) - 52%| CCIE:Voice Written - 0% (0/200 Hours)
    mikej412 wrote:
    Cisco Networking isn't just a job, it's a Lifestyle.
  • Excellent1Excellent1 Posts: 461Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    chmorin wrote: »
    WGU is a highly self-motivated enviornment in which your own persiveriance will aid you in success. You are given resources that you may use, but are not forced on you. People join the IT program with almost no knowledge of how to save a file in a different format, and no self dedication to the field. Because of the unique enviornment, WGU needs a way to see if the individual can focus on their own and are actually interested in the content and want to succede. I belive their new setup for IT entrances are doing a perfect job of just that. And considering I am 20 and have earned and paid for every credit and certificaiton I have gotten, I think it is not very much to ask of people who actually want to succede. Considering I personally would of met the new criteria at my time of application, I see no issues.

    Want to be in IT? Why would you complain about needing to get a certification to get an IT degree? To me it makes the IT degrees from WGU have a high calibar than previously. Who wouldn't want to work for that?

    Sorry, I'm tired of people complaning about things not being 'easy'. If you want in WGU IT, then meet the requirements. If you want in a big college, go make tens of thousands of dollars from nothing while having a high GPA. Gee, I wonder which is asking more of you. The typical college, or WGU who just wants a certification?

    What's up with the holier-than-thou, condescending attitude in this post? I stated my opinion in a respectful manner, and you intentionally mischaracterize my position as asking for the school to be made "easy" and as being a complaint rant. It's not appreciated and it's certainly not your usual style of posting. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're having a bad day. Hope it gets better.

    Edit to state my position one final time for those who might have missed it: I agree with the school increasing the admission requirements, but not to the extent that they have done so. That is all. Not asking for free diplomas in the mail or complaining for anything to be made "easy". Please feel free to disagree, but try to do so without projection and mischaracterizations, thanks.
  • erpadminerpadmin Posts: 4,165Member
    Excellent1 wrote: »
    Edit to state my position one final time for those who might have missed it: I agree with the school increasing the admission requirements, but not to the extent that they have done so. That is all. Not asking for free diplomas in the mail or complaining for anything to be made "easy". Please feel free to disagree, but try to do so without projection and mischaracterizations, thanks.

    Easy there, good buddy...I think everyone needs to chill out and breathe. LOL.

    The admission changes ARE a good thing, not just for future students, but for us too. If there are more students flunking out than graduating, it really makes the degree-granting institution look like crap. There should be good prerequisites to ANY program folks want to get into. WGU IT program shouldn't be any different.

    Think about requirements for being an architect at your local state school. No doubt you have to be proficient in math and have some drafting skills.

    Not for nothing though, when I see a guy or girl who can't spell "IT", but yet majors in something like IT: Databases or IT: Security (no doubt because he read somewhere that IT Security and/or databases is "hot"), that worries me. There really should be a minimum proficiency to enter the program and I'm for one glad that WGU is addressing that.

    Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not saying that the IT programs should be like some exclusive, super-secret elite society. LMAO. All I'm saying is that if one wants to major in IT (or anything really), one should show some proficiency that he/she can do the major and that he/she can do more than bring in financial aid dollars.
  • earweedearweed Posts: 5,192Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    I know the entry requirements are needed. A lot of people see these commercials put out by the for profit schools and since they think they'll magically get this great job along with a great lifestyle to go with it then they MUST get into IT even though they know little more than how to turn on the PC and click a mouse. Since the for profits are more expensive than WGU everyone runs to WGU. WGU then sees a LARGE influx of students and most are not prepared or dedicated enough to do the work.
    So in a nutshell I'm blaming the Media and the for profits for WGU feeling the necessity to puit such strict entry requirements.
    It's weird that with the new requirements a student has to just about (if not completely) qualify for the IT scholarship just to get accepted into the program.

    EDIT: BTW I wouldn't have qualified for admission with these requirements and I'm 4 classes from graduation. I had 3 years of prior college study in Electrical engineering with no IT classes (IT didn't officially exist back then) and no IT certs and no FORMAL IT job even though I had been doing work as a PC tech on my own and had already built a PC and had been using/fixing computers since the DOS days. Heck all my math and GE courses wouldn't have evn transferred in with the transfer guidelines WGU has now.
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
  • chmorinchmorin Posts: 1,446Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    Excellent1 wrote: »
    What's up with the holier-than-thou, condescending attitude in this post?

    My apologies, I knew starting that reply that it was a rant, but it was a rant based upon a large collection of replies recently on this thread and my experiences elsewhere. Not intended to be pointed at you, but to people questioning what is being provided for them which is still a great opportunity and service to people all over the country. It came out badly, but I just feel very strongly that WGU is providing very good things for people.

    Funny thing about the string of posts recently is that we all seem to agree on the grand scheme of things. Funny how these things get misunderstood and misrepresented on the Internet to suddenly start something like this XD.
    Currently Pursuing
    WGU (BS in IT Network Administration) - 52%| CCIE:Voice Written - 0% (0/200 Hours)
    mikej412 wrote:
    Cisco Networking isn't just a job, it's a Lifestyle.
  • eansdadeansdad Posts: 775Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Like I said before it is good but they should still have something for the person who doesn't have the formal education/cert or IT job. A simple entry level test would be good but the problem would be how to administer it without having people cheating. Maybe they should offer a certification program non-degree for IT. It could include the 3 IT Fundamentals classes, Networking (net+) and the Wind7 class along with the lowest Math and English (27 CUs) and make it a 1 year program. Completion of that would show ability and could be directly added to a BS degree program. If they drop out or fail out then they weren't part of the degree program and I don't think it counts toward enrollment numbers or at least adds a new category. WGU could charge the same and most would complete it within 6 months. The student wins by getting a few certs and CUs to transfer in and WGU wins with getting more student IT ready while still making ends meet. Maybe the could use the extra money to hire some better ECs....lol

    Maybe I should make this my TPV1 project so I could actually not find it boring and hard to get through. I got the CBTNuggets videos and although I understand it I can't watch more then 20 minutes at a time without nodding off.
  • arwesarwes Posts: 633Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    From my reading of the requirements, all it would take for someone to get in the school is to take & pass the A+ (or any other transferable exam). I took mine back in 2001, having been pretty much self taught on all things computers and read an 'A+ for Dummies' book over a weekend and passed it with flying colors the next Tuesday.
    [size=-2]Started WGU - BS IT:NDM on 1/1/13, finished 12/31/14
    Working on: Waiting on the mailman to bring me a diploma
    What's left: Graduation![/size]
  • erpadminerpadmin Posts: 4,165Member
    arwes wrote: »
    From my reading of the requirements, all it would take for someone to get in the school is to take & pass the A+ (or any other transferable exam). I took mine back in 2001, having been pretty much self taught on all things computers and read an 'A+ for Dummies' book over a weekend and passed it with flying colors the next Tuesday.


    Under that scenario the A+ from 2001 would not transfer in, as it was taken more than 5 years ago. The cert, AFAIK, has to be within 5 years before you enroll to be considered transferable.

    Everything else though is valid though...just take an A+/Network+ combo...and you got your in right there. Maybe even get the scholarship if you can find "experience"... :)
  • chmorinchmorin Posts: 1,446Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    erpadmin wrote: »
    Under that scenario the A+ from 2001 would not transfer in, as it was taken more than 5 years ago. The cert, AFAIK, has to be within 5 years before you enroll to be considered transferable.

    Everything else though is valid though...just take an A+/Network+ combo...and you got your in right there. Maybe even get the scholarship if you can find "experience"... :)

    You could even take a CIW exam to transfer in. Those are a good intro to IT and most people with interest can pass it.
    Currently Pursuing
    WGU (BS in IT Network Administration) - 52%| CCIE:Voice Written - 0% (0/200 Hours)
    mikej412 wrote:
    Cisco Networking isn't just a job, it's a Lifestyle.
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