Considering the Military

myedjo24

I think you are missing the point, you made it sound like the ONLY way to earn veteran status is to complete a deployment. No one is saying that it won't earn you veteran* status, because a person will for sure have the requirements, but the requirement to be a veteran is not just to have completed a deployment which you pointed out.

erpadmin

myedjo24 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point, you made it sound like the ONLY way to earn veteran status is to complete a deployment. No one is saying that it won't earn you veteran* status, because a person will for sure have the requirements, but the requirement to be a veteran is not just to have completed a deployment which you pointed out.

I was under the impression that you only needed to serve during a conflict to get the veteran's status. For example, if you served during Vietnam, but instead of fighting the VC in the jungle, was at some administrative office somewhere in the states. But the pencil pusher would still have veterans preference because he was in the military while there was a conflict, right?

lenell86

uhtrinity wrote: »

After spending 5 years active duty in the Army I can say be sure you want an Army life. I was a 45g - Fire control systems repair, essentially a low level electronic tech.
You don't always work 9 - 5, 8 hrs a day. There will be times where you might be on duty for a month at a time, 24/7, digging fox holes and pulling guard duty, even if not deployed. IT will not be your only job as you will be a soldier also, so expect to spend weekly time going over NBC, first aid, and many other soldiering skills. If deployed you are then looking at 12 - 18 months, 24/7 with a salary that isn't so great. As stated the Army guarantees specific MOS training, but can reclassify you as needed. From basic I almost got sent directly to accelerated infantry training which would have resulted in immediate deployment to Kuwait / Iraq. The recuiter failed to tell me that could even happen.

oh man, I am on the fence of joining the AF/Army/Air national guard/army national guard and I was leaning more towards army national guard since they guarantee specific MOS, but I'm glad you pointed that last statement out that they can reclassify you, which is pretty much in my book, the same with the AF when you play gamble at MEPS and list 5 jobs you want. I guess I'll take my chances back with the AF and play gamble and hope I get a cyber job and if I don't, I can always changed my mind since I believe you do this while your at MEPS.

Also offtopic, I was leaning more towards a guard/reserve type since I heard active duty, the real IT guru's are contractors, not any of the enlisted guys:/ Is this true?

uhtrinity

On that last part, let me clarify ....

They can temporarily reclassify you, after that they send you to the MOS you signed up for. So technically they didn't breach the contract as training in your MOS of choice is only delayed.
Also, if you fail that MOS they will reclassify you into something easier or discharge you. In AIT we had a guy who failed out in helicopter pilot school, so he was reclassified into an enlisted technical position.
You can also be deployed for a job other than what your MOS is for after AIT, as with our local Artillery guys. They mostly do base security and patrols.

uhtrinity

lenell86 wrote: »

Also offtopic, I was leaning more towards a guard/reserve type since I heard active duty, the real IT guru's are contractors, not any of the enlisted guys:/ Is this true?

I served from 91 - 95, and at that time all of truly technical stuff was done at depot level or by contractors. I worked at the Direct Support Level. We used equipment that tested at the component level which was way below my AAS training. Since IT is more prevalent in all units in the Army I would think this could vary drastically from being limited to running a radio, dragging cable, all the way to setting up and maintaining networks and servers. No recruiter can guaranty what kind of unit you will be placed with unless it is a local guard unit and then if you are deployed you might not even be deployed as a unit. You might be used to augment other units and will be at their mercy.

networker050184

lenell86 wrote: »

Also offtopic, I was leaning more towards a guard/reserve type since I heard active duty, the real IT guru's are contractors, not any of the enlisted guys:/ Is this true?

The civilians are usually only called in if the soldiers are idiots and can't get it to work. Unfortunately that is the case a lot of the times. Not to sound arrogant, but I knew way more than any of the contractors and they were not allowed to touch my equipment without me or one of my joes present. The civilians are just IT guys like you and me. What they know varies drastically from one to the next.

networker050184

uhtrinity wrote: »

No recruiter can guaranty what kind of unit you will be placed with unless it is a local guard unit and then if you are deployed you might not even be deployed as a unit.

Thats not true. You can get unit or station of choice in your contract as well. Of course all things go behind the needs of the Army, but I've never met anyone with unit of choice that didn't go there.

SteveLord

networker050184 wrote: »

Thats not true. You can get unit or station of choice in your contract as well. Of course all things go behind the needs of the Army, but I've never met anyone with unit of choice that didn't go there.

Guard and Reserve yes. Active, not necessarily. The AA guys were the most paranoid in boot camp until the day the DS read off where all their duty stations would be at. But that was also a decade ago for me. (11X though)

Guard units almost always deploy as a unit, but it is entirely possible to be split up, but STILL be with others from the unit. The people who get "dropped" into random units, are those in the IRR. As for job reclassification.....well.....how in demand are artillery right now? They're practically (and unfortunately) useless. So they get turned into what essentially are MPs instead.

myedjo24

lenell86 wrote: »

Also offtopic, I was leaning more towards a guard/reserve type since I heard active duty, the real IT guru's are contractors, not any of the enlisted guys:/ Is this true?

When I was in the Marines, the only time I ever worked with a contractor is when they would issue out equipment or when we would give them back the equipment we break for them to repair. However, now that I am a contractor and working with the Air Force, the Air Force relies heavily on contractors and minimally on their enlisted techs.

lenell86

myedjo24 wrote: »

When I was in the Marines, the only time I ever worked with a contractor is when they would issue out equipment or when we would give them back the equipment we break for them to repair. However, now that I am a contractor and working with the Air Force, the Air Force relies heavily on contractors and minimally on their enlisted techs.

This is what I wanted to hear, someone thats in the Airforce or works with them currently that knows whats going on. All my buddies that are former airforce, they all tell me one thing but that was back when they were in. I understand now that things have changed and you stating that changes everything about me going in. I just wanted to go in so I could get more system admin experience but if its just contractors doing it, I probably won't go in now. Thanks for the info.

Qord

lenell86 wrote: »

This is what I wanted to hear, someone thats in the Airforce or works with them currently that knows whats going on. All my buddies that are former airforce, they all tell me one thing but that was back when they were in. I understand now that things have changed and you stating that changes everything about me going in. I just wanted to go in so I could get more system admin experience but if its just contractors doing it, I probably won't go in now. Thanks for the info.

Go Navy man. Go for the crypto side, either CTM or IT.
Those other branches are for ladies and children.

erpadmin wrote: »

I was under the impression that you only needed to serve during a conflict to get the veteran's status.

Define "veterans status". If you serve, you are a veteran. However, what benefits you get when you get out can vary. If you want the GI Bill, there is a minimum amount of active duty time you have to serve in order to be eligible for it, and the time you served determines the details of the coverage you get.

Chris:/*

Air Force did a lot for me. I was an 2E2 and then they merged the career fields so I would be a 3D1X2 Cyber Transport. If you are a 3D0X2 (CSO), 3D0X4 (Programmer) or 3D1X2 (Cyber Transport) you can transfer into the 1B4 (Computer Network Operations) career fields after you gain significant experience and prove your knowledge level.

3D0X2 means you primarily work with servers on the Windows side. You can work on the Linux side but that is much rarer. Here is the rub the 3D1X2 guys will be working on mission systems, Linux, Windows and everything in between the 3D0X2 career field will be working with Infrastructure primarily. The 3D0X2 career field gets great Windows server training and sometimes Linux and Unix.

3D0X2 tech school is about 3 months long while 3D1X2 tech school is about 8 to 12 months long depending on holidays and seasons.

The reason I bring up the 3D1X2 tech school is because you are taught Networking, Linux, Unix, Windows, Small Computers, Crypto, Telephones (more on the job training for this) and Electrical Engineering basics including test equipment use.

*PS Please feel free to PM me at any time I often miss posts and I appreciate your desire to serve, let me know how I can help.

Chris:/*

myedjo24 wrote: »

When I was in the Marines, the only time I ever worked with a contractor is when they would issue out equipment or when we would give them back the equipment we break for them to repair. However, now that I am a contractor and working with the Air Force, the Air Force relies heavily on contractors and minimally on their enlisted techs.

I disagree with this as it depends on the location and the way the contracts are written. Some places the Air Force lead and the contractors are their for long term support other places the contractors know more.

SephStorm

On Contractors- It depends on the service, and the mission.

I was in the Marines from 2005-2009 And contractors ruled the land. NMCI currently holds the MC IT contract and owns most of the Information Systems, excluding tactical systems.they also have support contracts for nearly everything. We had IT guys, but all they could do was submit paperwork for your account to be created, set up your email, do basic troubleshooting, account unlocks on AD. They knew a lot more, they were tech guys, but that was all they were allowed to do.

Fast forward to the Army, 2010. Contactors rule the higher echelons, at least on the Security side. The DOIM/NEC is all civilian, certain cyber units are in some locations completely civilian, You'll find plenty of them in 9th SC. I dont personally know anyone from DISA, but they have an office in country, I can only assume it is mostly civilian, didnt see a commander or 1sgt on the sign. In my local unit, we have pretty good authority for what we need to do. I wont go into details, but we can mostly do what is within a reasonable level. We have a few civilians, but they are in Management or Semi-management roles, i.e IA or IAM.

The demarcation line appears to be tactical units vs non tac units. I've heard stories of guys in IR or AF working as the DOIM/NEC, which wouldn't fly in the states.

my personal opinion, military needs to cut down on civilians and let the soldiers do what they signed up to do. You'll recruit and retain better quality soldiers.

Priston

I guess now I'm thinking more on the 3D0X2 or 3D1X2 in the Air Force or IT in the Coast Guard. Also I don't think I would mind working with civilian contractors, just as long as I was able to learn from them and eventually take over and eliminate the need for them.

uhtrinity

Priston wrote: »

I guess now I'm thinking more on the 3D0X2 or 3D1X2 in the Air Force or IT in the Coast Guard. Also I don't think I would mind working with civilian contractors, just as long as I was able to learn from them and eventually take over and eliminate the need for them.

Good luck with that. As enlisted you have practically zero say in who does what. The contractors will do whatever they have to to protect their bottom line - Income. The Military personnel get paid regardless of whether they are working in their technical field or cutting grass.

azjag

Did they change the contract requirements in the last 10 years. I remember when I joined the Army I signed a contract for 8 years of inactive/ready reserve and then a seperate contract for 4 years of active duty.

Also, the main reason I joined the Army is because they let me choose my MOS. The Navy does as well, but the Air Force didn't. I didn't even consider the Marines at the time.

uhtrinity

azjag wrote: »

Did they change the contract requirements in the last 10 years. I remember when I joined the Army I signed a contract for 8 years of inactive/ready reserve and then a seperate contract for 4 years of active duty.

Also, the main reason I joined the Army is because they let me choose my MOS. The Navy does as well, but the Air Force didn't. I didn't even consider the Marines at the time.

It is 8 years required mix as a minimum. So if you are active or national guard for 3 years you still have 5 years on inactive ready reserve. I did 5 years active and 3 years IRR.

bc901

Qord wrote: »

Go Navy man. Go for the crypto side, either CTM or IT.
Those other branches are for ladies and children.

ಠ_ಠ Seriously?

networker050184

That has to be a joke. They are called seaman for crying out loud.

Qord

networker050184 wrote: »

That has to be a joke. They are called seaman for crying out loud.

Only until E4. You get used to it.

bc901 wrote: »

ಠ_ಠ Seriously?

True story.


All jokes aside, I do think Navy is the way to go. You get a ship, and there's no civilians there, no contractors....only active duty. You might see them for a new install, upgrade, or serious maintenance, but other than that you run the show.

Other than that, look at my story: I got paid to ride a boat from foreign port to foreign port. You go into any other service, and you're almost guaranteed to be stuck on one base, usually in the middle of nowhere, for at least 3 years. Navy gives you mobility, travel, and the ability to be OK with being referred to as "seaman".

brad-

Priston wrote: »

Yea, that 8 years is the main reason I haven't joined yet.

I've been out for 7 years..but I doubt this has changed.

Everyone signs up for 8 years whether they know it or not.

Typically, you do say - 4 years active duty. When you ETS from active, you can go guard, reserve, or inactive reserve. If you just want to be done with it, you do the other 4 years IRR. If you join the NG/Reserve, that's typically 6 years with 2 years IRR.

I did 3 yrs active and 5 yrs NG, so I didnt do any IRR...but if you go IRR they can take you based on your MOS and army needs. If I'm not mistaken, they have been taking IRR people for recent deployments.

SteveLord

All Army branches can pull from the IRR. You also have next to nothing for benefits. For part timers, you're better off drilling the rest of it. At least if your unit does get deployed, you'll get advanced notice and be going with people you know.

myedjo24

brad- wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, they have been taking IRR people for recent deployments.

My friend got called back last year to go on a deployment. He said that he was glad because he wasn't really doing anything. Also, I don't remember what it was but he got paid extra (in addition to the combat/deployment pay). I think maybe they were giving him BAH even though he wasn't married, because they made him leave where he was living? I don't really remember actually.

brad-

SteveLord wrote: »

All Army branches can pull from the IRR. You also have next to nothing for benefits. For part timers, you're better off drilling the rest of it. At least if your unit does get deployed, you'll get advanced notice and be going with people you know.

thats exactly why i stayed in something 'active' for the full 8.

SteveLord

myedjo24 wrote: »

My friend got called back last year to go on a deployment. He said that he was glad because he wasn't really doing anything. Also, I don't remember what it was but he got paid extra (in addition to the combat/deployment pay). I think maybe they were giving him BAH even though he wasn't married, because they made him leave where he was living? I don't really remember actually.

Everyone gets BAH, but married people get a little more of it + family separation allowance. I believe it might have been something similar to Stop Loss pay or some other involuntary enlistment bonus that you're referring to.