masters or high-end certs

demonfurbie

im at wgu and ive go about a year or less left if i keep up my pace and i was wondering what to do after

my options are a masters from a online only school or some high end certs like ccisp, pmp, itil

what would be best over?

just want to see other peoples thoughts

erpadmin

DF,

What do you ultimately want to do in your IT career?

Turgon

If you want to undertake a Master's or Certification then by all means do so. They tick boxes as they are not so uncommon anymore and so many people have them. The important thing is you decide where you are heading in your career and throw yourself into that as opposed to tramping on with more qualifications. Certifications and degrees do end at some point but after several years at it you also want a footprint of decent experience and career progression to go along with it.

ehnde

A M.S. wont expire. Your certifications will. If you're not burned out on school and chose to go ahead with the masters, you could later do the certs.

demonfurbie

ive been looking at gov jobs that require clearance or a network admin job

both of those often look for a bs and high end certs or a bs and masters

i do agree a masters never expires, i didnt think about that but i think i would still have to get the certs.

i guess it depends on how burnt out i am at that time

erpadmin

If you are looking for government jobs, then the MS is probably your best bet. You can substitute a year or two of management experience with a MS in Management or MBA. (At least in NJ and depending on the type of management positions offered.)

After WGU, I am looking at 4 to 5 schools for an MS. (One is a bit of a reach...both in distance and price, the other is a bit of reach in both money and competitiveness...but I want to see if I can even get accepted. The other three MIGHT be doable....but I won't know what's up until I'm close to graduation...all I know is that I want a MS program that will take no more than 3 years going part-time.

As for high level certs...the three I am looking at (although I believe one of these is midlevel) in this order are PMP, SSCP, CISSP. (In truth, the only reason I even want to consider the last two is because of this thread....I'm not even going to lie to you...lmao. The PMP was one I always wanted to do.)

demonfurbie

the issue im running into is masters cost alot and my choices have to be online only with work and kids.

bluemason

I think Certs compliment degrees and are a quicker way to add pizzazz to your resume much quicker. How about pursuing a graduate certificate and then use the credits earned to roll into a Masters?

I also believe that one should have some experience under ones belt before pursuing graduate studies - else you'll have degrees but no experience... and if you look at job postings, most require experience.

If I were in HR and had resumes in front of me that differ such as this:
Candidate 1: Masters, no experience
Candidate 2: Bachelors but has experience

I would pick #2.

Just my few pents worth.

Also, for IT Sec education, I would ensure that you hit one on the NSA's list of Centers of Academic Excellence which can be foundhere: http://www.nsa.gov/ia/academic_outreach/nat_cae/institutions.shtml

Balantine

Min-maxing (twinking, ugh) has its place. Ideally you want a M.S. plan that includes a high-level certification. I am going to dual-enroll in Fall of 2011 in the graduate school and complete my M.S. online in ICT. One of the nice things it offers is a specialization: Learning Technologies, Visual Communications, Information Technology, E-Commerce. In the IT program there are the Cisco CCNP classes. When you take the classes you get a waiver. So I figure that I'll take that specialty and be more efficient with my time, hitting two birds with one stone - Both the M.S. and certification. Not only will this save me 1.5K+ (including books and labs) in cert costs but the overall M.S. is one of the vest values for the quality I have found; a true hidden jewel for ~15K total. And they rent/send you your books! Though I am in-state and the cost might be higher for outside I'll still give a plug here. URL="http://www.uwstout.edu/programs/msict/pc.cfm"]link[/URL

As has been asked too and bears repeating, what do you want to do? I'd look up your dream job and focus on the ideal skills... they are different in various industries...

bc901

bluemason wrote: »

Also, for IT Sec education, I would ensure that you hit one on the NSA's list of Centers of Academic Excellence which can be foundhere: Centers of Academic Excellence - Institutions - NSA/CSS

I noticed that WGU isn't on this list...

demonfurbie

i think im just going to end up getting my bs in IT then get a few comp sci certs the judge i work with would prob. like having a chfi that she knows other than the one the state sends to her that, well, isnt very personable

veritas_libertas

bc901 wrote: »

I noticed that WGU isn't on this list...

WGU is suppose to hear back from the NSA on that sometime this Spring.

TNT143

As some others have said it really depends on what you want to do... the 'high end certs' can at least get you looked at and in the door, but I think a Masters will help 'round you out'.

Certs are usually very specific to what they are certifying you in... Sec+ for example is all about security, but it doesn't go into how to manage or implement/maintain changes. Additional courses on implementing new technologies to build off of your concentrated knowledge in <cert> will make you a higher valued asset... does that make sense?

Hope it helps!

Balantine

I'd like to also add that the M.S. is more geared toward management. Which has the advantage of your core skillset being more geared around knowing how to program people without their knowing it (or I should say, at least enjoying your doing so!). It will always be easy to find people in this field who have the specialized knowledge. Part of a wise man's criteria is probably minimizing the edge of the frenetic pace of the industry as a whole. Look no further than all the comments about Cisco and other certifications being a lifestyle. One has to ask themself how long they want to wrench... is there a point where you might conceivably want to not study 1-3 hours a day? IMHO, if you want to make a serious career out of Information Technology you need a degree in I.T. and probably a minor in psychology. But then again, people are tricky, fickle, fapping animals too.

powerfool

The common thought that is always expressed here is to do both, which I support. However, you may want to give yourself a year or two break from school and focus on certifications. DoD 8570 requirements are a good thing for you to focus on right now, as well as vendor specific certs that support your work.

Once you have a couple of years behind your BS, then look at a masters program. You may change your mind on what you want to do. I was going to do an MBA (which I still am, just later), but I decided to do an MS first, as there was a special initiative offered by my employer.

CISSP will be a key cert for 8570, and I imagine that the entire federal government will have some overall requirement soon, if they don't already (I have been strictly DoD focused).

demonfurbie

do you have a site that lists the DoD requirements?

powerfool

demonfurbie wrote: »

do you have a site that lists the DoD requirements?

Here is the latest

www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/857001m.pdf

N2IT

Depends on where you get your masters from.

Depends on what cert you want.

Depends on what you want to do.

Overall and High end masters degree would be my preferance. I think a finance/economics masters from Harvard or Stanford would be nice

it_consultant

I would say; don't discount the amount of time and preparation needed to do high end certs. It takes a long time to become a CCNP or a MCSE / MCITP. It also take a lot of work to get a masters degree. I think it would be disingenuous for anyone here to say that you could do both at the same time.

Generally speaking people are eager to get into the workforce. If you are itching to get into the workforce, certs will probably aide you more in terms of getting a job. Believe it or not there are a lot of people floating around with Masters degrees who are having a hard time getting a job. I know very few people with certifications above the associate or entry level who are out of work.

Devilsbane

it_consultant wrote: »

Believe it or not there are a lot of people floating around with Masters degrees who are having a hard time getting a job.

This is because people with a masters degree typically demand a higher salary than someone without. So companies might just assume that they can't afford the degree and make their offer to someone who doesn't have the degree but has the same experience.

Kind of a double edged sword.

powerfool

Devilsbane wrote: »

This is because people with a masters degree typically demand a higher salary than someone without. So companies might just assume that they can't afford the degree and make their offer to someone who doesn't have the degree but has the same experience.

Kind of a double edged sword.

I think the other side of that is there are a lot of people with junk MBAs, as well.... similar to paper certs without experience.

Devilsbane

powerfool wrote: »

I think the other side of that is there are a lot of people with junk MBAs, as well.... similar to paper certs without experience.

I'm not saying they really are more qualified, they just think they are. I too would think more of someone with certifications. Don't get me wrong, college is very valuable and I enjoyed going. But the emphasis there is mostly on the general ed things. And when it comes to the real world, much of that doesn't matter, at least in IT.

it_consultant

You have to consider what you want to do in your job. If you want to do crunchy technical things, then crunchy technical certs are the way to go. There is not a college degree that equates to what I do. There are some certifications (Exchange, Windows, Cisco) that do. If you don't work on that equipment or you don't want to work on it, then it wouldn't make any sense to get those certs. If you find yourself in interviews being asked something like "What can you actually do in technology xyz?" then you should have certs.

I can't tell you the difference between getting say the mid-level ITIL or the CAPM/PMP vs a college degree. I would think an MBA would trounce those, but I don't really know.

demonfurbie

im starting to think i would be better off doing a bs degree and certs in the area i want to go in to

then maybe later in life get a masters once i hit that glass ceiling

Devilsbane

demonfurbie wrote: »

im starting to think i would be better off doing a bs degree and certs in the area i want to go in to

then maybe later in life get a masters once i hit that glass ceiling

That logic is very sound except for one piece. How many people do you know of who took a semester or two off and then just never made it back? I think someone above hit the nail on the head when they said if the MS is something you really want, take care of it now while it should be easy(er). Once you have been out of school for a couple years, it is going to be very difficult to get back into things.