Doing it backwards. Job first, cert second?

careerchange

OK, so I landed a job as a Network Engineer and am lucky enough to be configuring tons of routers and switches (Cisco, Juniper, Brocade) in a lab environment. Basically, they hand me a truck load of routers and I configure/ship them to our customers.

I have little experience, but am learning fast from my co-workers. After a few months I can really get around a router. My problem is that my co-workers are tiring of teaching me and I have to kick it up a notch. CCNA should be perfect right? I nailed the Comptia Net+, (Did me a lot of good) but really need to get smarter with routers.

What version/edition of Sybex should I get? Is the box set good? I've used Sybex for many certifications and always come back to them. Please let me know if this is a good start. Any good lab training? Videos? Side note: I also have a few 2600 routers at home to toy with, but the 3845's at work keep me learning plenty...


Thanks !

networker050184

You're not doing it backwards, you are doing it right man!

As far as study material, I'm a fan of the Odom books and the CBT Nuggets by Cioara.

chrisone

I would recommend the Cisco press books over the Sybex.

CCNA Preparation Library, 7th Edition

Netwurk

Job first, certs second is the best way to go but not always possible (my thought is that the OP probably already knows this).

My job doesn't require me to have certs, I pursue them because I am older and management likes to see proof that us old guys are keeping up with the new IT world.

Certs or not, if you're lucky enough to get an IT job without experience you should do your best to learn on the job. It makes it a lot easier if things don't work out at your present job.

CiskHo

chrisone wrote: »

I would recommend the Cisco press books over the Sybex.

Agreed 100%. As someone with both Net+ and CCNA I can say that you'll find the CCNA to be a completely different beast. I hope you are ready to step up your game because the CCNA is in a different ballpark! Net+ took me about 6-8 weeks to prep for. CCNA was more like a year for me and I was a lab tech at Cisco LOL

Those 2600s will do you much good. Be on the lookout for two (or three) 2950s (or 2950Gs) to handle your switching labs. One thing to keep in mind is that when it comes down to it Cisco is a switching company (not routing) so expect to focus a little more on the switching stuff. I felt there was more switching than anything else on all of my Cisco exams.

notgoing2fail

CiskHo wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is that when it comes down to it Cisco is a switching company (not routing) so expect to focus a little more on the switching stuff. I felt there was more switching than anything else on all of my Cisco exams.

hmmm, I've never really thought of it this way. Is this true?

chmorin

networker050184 wrote: »

You're not doing it backwards, you are doing it right man!

Agreed. With experience comes certification, not the other way around. There is no better experience than job experiance.

hmmm, I've never really thought of it this way. Is this true?

I'm not sure I agree with his statement. Go pick up the SWITCH book, then go pick up the ROUTE book. Tell me which one Cisco is more into then. Cisco is a networking company. That being said, for the CCNA you need to know both switching and routing, and given the random selection process for questions, you could get mostly switching. You could also get mostly routing, so pick your poison. Personally I recall hating WAN lab's in my CCNA.

vinbuck

notgoing2fail wrote: »

hmmm, I've never really thought of it this way. Is this true?

IIRC Cisco didn't start making switches until about 10 years after they were well established in the router world. It's fair to say they are petty heavy on both these days although they probably still lean more in the routing direction.

chX

I don't see any issues with gaining on-the-job experience and then going for your cert. It's an awesome way of doing it, and in fact - it's how I did it.

My current job (Corporate Support for an Australian ISP) involves a lot of Cisco work, similar to your current job. I configure routers for customers, troubleshoot issues, and get to work with/learn about a large National and International MPLS-based network. There's a lot of other Non-Cisco things I do too.

You'll find that it's a great relationship. You'll learn things on the job which benefit your study and certification, and you'll learn things from your study which benefit your work.

johnwest43

+1 on the cisco press books by odom. Best reads i have had so far!!!!

CiskHo

MississippiGuardsman wrote: »

IIRC Cisco didn't start making switches until about 10 years after they were well established in the router world. It's fair to say they are petty heavy on both these days although they probably still lean more in the routing direction.

I've worked at Cisco for the past 10 years. Cisco's bread and butter is switching. From what the CCNA bootcamp instructors taught us Cisco started out with switches (or hubs) and expanded from their. IIRC, the bulk of their work/income is from switching. Yes, they are a networking company nowadays but from what I have and am seeing their bread and butter will be switching for quite some time.

chmorin wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with his statement. Go pick up the SWITCH book, then go pick up the ROUTE book. Tell me which one Cisco is more into then.

I've read both. I don't see why you would think those two books reflect that Cisco is more into routing... Is it because ROUTE is thicker?

Anyways, I say Cisco is closer to switching because that is what Cisco taught me. I have seen more switching stuff in my studies than anything else and more switching in my day to day work duties but that is likely because I am in a lab enviroment (lab support and performance testing).

kurosaki00

You are doing it the right way.

I've just had petty tech jobs, the one I got right now I got it because I'm doing my M.S.
I have enough networking knowledge that the dpt director is talking with me to give me a special permit to teach some major level courses
I have ccent and others
and I cant nail a network job
primary because private sector is very limited in my country, small island, goverment is major employer of the island, private sector is very small (so = lots of competition)

Second = I have no real network experience, employers are very rarely impressed by labs


So I would give all my certs (just 3 lol) for the experience.
So do your best, get as much experience as you can, and as you move along get some certs.

networker050184

CiskHo wrote: »

I've worked at Cisco for the past 10 years. Cisco's bread and butter is switching. From what the CCNA bootcamp instructors taught us Cisco started out with switches (or hubs) and expanded from their. IIRC, the bulk of their work/income is from switching. Yes, they are a networking company nowadays but from what I have and am seeing their bread and butter will be switching for quite some time.



I've read both. I don't see why you would think those two books reflect that Cisco is more into routing... Is it because ROUTE is thicker?

Anyways, I say Cisco is closer to switching because that is what Cisco taught me. I have seen more switching stuff in my studies than anything else and more switching in my day to day work duties but that is likely because I am in a lab enviroment (lab support and performance testing).

I guess there isn't a company history exam to work there.

careerchange

CiskHo wrote: »

Agreed 100%. As someone with both Net+ and CCNA I can say that you'll find the CCNA to be a completely different beast. I hope you are ready to step up your game because the CCNA is in a different ballpark! Net+ took me about 6-8 weeks to prep for. CCNA was more like a year for me and I was a lab tech at Cisco LOL

Those 2600s will do you much good. Be on the lookout for two (or three) 2950s (or 2950Gs) to handle your switching labs. One thing to keep in mind is that when it comes down to it Cisco is a switching company (not routing) so expect to focus a little more on the switching stuff. I felt there was more switching than anything else on all of my Cisco exams.

Thanks. I understand the CCNA is a different beast, but I need to know this stuff to succeed on my job. Its not really an option.

The Net+ is a GREAT certification for what it is. When I got started here, I had no idea what a routing protocol was and relied on subnet **** sheets. Now, I'm the only one in my group that doesnt use one ! Perfect starting certification. I even walk into closets now and can identify things like OC cables etc..

But now, I am stumbling around a bit building routers. VRF is still a bit cloudy to me. I enter a lot of commands from scripts, but really need to write them myself. Full tilt to CCENT/ CCNA is my next move.

Thanks for the tips

CiskHo

networker050184 wrote: »

I guess there isn't a company history exam to work there.

Nope. Only place I've worked where a history exam was required was 1st RGR Batt, US Army.

Cisco's 1st product to ship (in 1980's) was a router. Since the mid-90s most $ comes from switching/LAN. Read wiki if you are still confused.

I can't recall the bootcamp instructors name but he had written several books for CiscoPress. I don't see why he would have thrown that tidbit into the discussion if it weren't true.

careerchange

kurosaki00 wrote: »

You are doing it the right way.

I've just had petty tech jobs, the one I got right now I got it because I'm doing my M.S.
I have enough networking knowledge that the dpt director is talking with me to give me a special permit to teach some major level courses
I have ccent and others
and I cant nail a network job
primary because private sector is very limited in my country, small island, goverment is major employer of the island, private sector is very small (so = lots of competition)

Second = I have no real network experience, employers are very rarely impressed by labs


So I would give all my certs (just 3 lol) for the experience.
So do your best, get as much experience as you can, and as you move along get some certs.

I feel quite lucky to have this opportunity which is exactly why I need to kick it up a notch. If I can hold this job for a few years, I sjould be in good shape !

Last thing....I've been a Network Admin (NT4.0, 2000, XP, All servers) For over ten years and am DONE ! HATE THAT CRAP AND WON"T EVER GO BACK. So here I am loving life with Routers and Switches. A Much better place to be. (And I dumped a job as Senior/Lead Engineer making over 6 digits) Microsoft is hell, and if you support it, you'll be caught holding the bag when it breaks. People just dont understand that Microsoft is not perfect.

networker050184

CiskHo wrote: »

Nope. Only place I've worked where a history exam was required was 1st RGR Batt, US Army.

Cisco's 1st product to ship (in 1980's) was a router. Since the mid-90s most $ comes from switching/LAN. Read wiki if you are still confused.

I can't recall the bootcamp instructors name but he had written several books for CiscoPress. I don't see why he would have thrown that tidbit into the discussion if it weren't true.

Me confused? You were the wrong one here buddy. And I don't care how many books the guy has written, if he says Cisco started out with switches sorry to tell you hes wrong also.

careerchange

chrisone wrote: »

I would recommend the Cisco press books over the Sybex.

CCNA Preparation Library, 7th Edition

Thanks much, making the purchase now. Also looking into CBT nuggets and have always loved Sybex. My company will buy the books.

careerchange

chrisone wrote: »

I would recommend the Cisco press books over the Sybex.

CCNA Preparation Library, 7th Edition

Any chance the mind share game is worthwhile?

Cisco CCENT Mind Share Game

Netwurk

CiskHo wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is that when it comes down to it Cisco is a switching company (not routing)

Cisco switches are great, but they are best known for routers. Seems obvious to most of us, but I thought I would chime in.

They started out with routers and jumped into the switching world in the '90's

They are still working on phasing out CatOS in favor of IOS even after all these years.


CatOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So anyhow....

tha_dub

Well this looks like fun I'll throw my 2 cents in....

I'm going with routers as the primary device.

I've worked at a ton of sites where the admin's wouldn't let you through the front door with anything but a Cisco router however they are running stacks of managed HP or Nortel switches behind them....