Adding to a CCNA; looking for ideas

Dr_Atomic

I have a CCNA and Security+ certs (and a non-technical bachelors degree) and have been working at an ISP recently (about two years). I'm currently unemployed, so now is a good chance for me to work on other certs and perhaps get into something a bit different than pure networking (it wasn't particularly interesting to me). I'm thinking about getting an MCSA in addition to an A+. The MCSA would enable me to get a foot in the door to Microsoft/server type jobs, while the A+ would show that I'm comfortable with the hardware end of things. I enjoy customer/worker interaction, so that's not an issue. Right now I feel like a one-trick pony and much too one-dimensional with my CCNA (the Security+ doesn't really count for much), and I definitely don't love networking enough to want to go after a CCNP.

Mainly, what kind of jobs could I go after with both a CCNA and an MCSA in my pocket (with an A+ thrown in)? If there are other certification alternatives, I'm all ears. I'm currently investigating options.

Bl8ckr0uter

skip the A+. If you worked with server 2k3 then an MCSA should only be used to "sure" up you experience, else, go for an MCTS or MCITP:SA. What do you want to do exactly?

Dr_Atomic

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

skip the A+. If you worked with server 2k3 then an MCSA should only be used to "sure" up you experience, else, go for an MCTS or MCITP:SA. What do you want to do exactly?

I know more what I *don't* want to do than what I want to do. I don't want to do just networking. I wouldn't mind doing a little of a lot of different technologies. I liked the hands-on things an A+ prepares one for, but those jobs don't pay anything - certainly not enough to support a family on.

In the networking job I was at (an ISP), any passing storm would cause network outages which made our night potentially very busy. I'd like to get away from that kind of industry and maybe get on with a company where I can potentially work "normal" daytime hours. Working with servers within one company seemed intriguing to me, although I've never directly worked with servers. Like I said, I'm exploring technologies at the moment.

I'm unfamiliar with either the MCTS or MCITP:SA. What kind of job would that prepare one for? How long to prepare and study for them? Would they complement a CCNA?

Bl8ckr0uter

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

In the networking job I was at (an ISP), any passing storm would cause network outages which made our night potentially very busy. I'd like to get away from that kind of industry and maybe get on with a company where I can potentially work "normal" daytime hours. Working with servers within one company seemed intriguing to me, although I've never directly worked with servers. Like I said, I'm exploring technologies at the moment.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a douche but welcome to IT! It is pretty much all putting out fires that pop up (unless you are at a very high level in your career). Right now, I am copying 16gigs worth of PST files from an old pos box and rebuilding a managers desktop. Now we she care that I have been here since 9 this morning and I will probably will be here for an hour or two more when she gets on her PC tomorrow? Nope. She just wants a faster box. That's IT. Getting b1tched at (by users or by coworkers) when things are "broken" and getting ignored when things are "working". You job is to keep them from b1tching at you

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I'm unfamiliar with either the MCTS or MCITP:SA. What kind of job would that prepare one for? How long to prepare and study for them? Would they complement a CCNA?

They are basically like MCP and MCSA but for windows 2008. There are several threads here with info on passing them and such. I wouldn't be a good resource since I don't have or want either.

CCNA seems to go with anything around here and that isn't a bad thing per se. If I were you I would try to find something networking related since you already have some experience in if (since you are looking for a job). The job market still has some bad spots and there are probably at least 2-5 people with more server experience and certs than you looking for the same kind of jobs.

Dr_Atomic

Btw, why did you say ditch the A+? Is it really that worthless?

steve13ad

A+ is the very lowest entry-level certification that you can get.

With your CCNA & Sec+ you've proven that you can handle more advanced topics.

Priston

A+ is mainly good for getting a job repairing PCs, other than that it's nothing special.

I would suggest the MCITP: SA

Maybe start with the 70-642 since you have a CCNA and network background

Bl8ckr0uter

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

Btw, why did you say ditch the A+? Is it really that worthless?

Yes. I will say that it is that worthless.

steve13ad wrote: »

A+ is the very lowest entry-level certification that you can get.

With your CCNA & Sec+ you've proven that you can handle more advanced topics.

There are some lower ones by microsoft called MTA or something....


Ok let me retract my statement. There are certain situations that would make the A+ not worthless ie if you worked for the government, if your job asked for it. All else, don't waste your time.

Forsaken_GA

In my opinion, the only thing that an A+ says is that you can touch a computer, and are less likely to break it than your average luser.

cisco_certs

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I know more what I *don't* want to do than what I want to do. I don't want to do just networking. I wouldn't mind doing a little of a lot of different technologies. I liked the hands-on things an A+ prepares one for, but those jobs don't pay anything - certainly not enough to support a family on.

In the networking job I was at (an ISP), any passing storm would cause network outages which made our night potentially very busy. I'd like to get away from that kind of industry and maybe get on with a company where I can potentially work "normal" daytime hours. Working with servers within one company seemed intriguing to me, although I've never directly worked with servers. Like I said, I'm exploring technologies at the moment.

I'm unfamiliar with either the MCTS or MCITP:SA. What kind of job would that prepare one for? How long to prepare and study for them? Would they complement a CCNA?

I dont even think there's a company where you can work normal day time hours. IT deals with stuff that will make you day into long hours whether its network or server. You wont get away even if you deal with servers. You will have to stay late if the server crashed or you update something or do back ups and etc.

Geetar28

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I have a CCNA and Security+ certs (and a non-technical bachelors degree) and have been working at an ISP recently (about two years). I'm currently unemployed, so now is a good chance for me to work on other certs and perhaps get into something a bit different than pure networking (it wasn't particularly interesting to me). I'm thinking about getting an MCSA in addition to an A+. The MCSA would enable me to get a foot in the door to Microsoft/server type jobs, while the A+ would show that I'm comfortable with the hardware end of things. I enjoy customer/worker interaction, so that's not an issue. Right now I feel like a one-trick pony and much too one-dimensional with my CCNA (the Security+ doesn't really count for much), and I definitely don't love networking enough to want to go after a CCNP.

Mainly, what kind of jobs could I go after with both a CCNA and an MCSA in my pocket (with an A+ thrown in)? If there are other certification alternatives, I'm all ears. I'm currently investigating options.

If your looking for fairly normal business hours, I would suggest maybe looking to businesses that aren't IT centric. For example I work at a manufacturing plant as their "IT guy" (used to hate that moniker..learned to just go with it). Anyway, I rarely have to work long 'After Hours' stuff. Maybe a few times a year I have to work real late. Say if one of the production machines (lasers, cnc lathes, etc..) are down.

Now that said I'm salary...and put in usually about 45 hours. Don't get paid OT for those other 5....and believe me that crap adds up over time. However, when the bell dings at 4:30 my ass is in the car driving home most nights. Sometimes I stay late to work on something I want to get done.

Now, I'm also trying to get the hell out of this job too..lol. So it's not that I can recommend it.. but the pay isn't bad (that's kinda what's preventing me from taking an entry-level network job) getting paid just enough to keep me there, and since don't have any good day-to-day network centric work...I would have to start at the low-money end of the totem pole.

Forsaken_GA

cisco_certs wrote: »

I dont even think there's a company where you can work normal day time hours. IT deals with stuff that will make you day into long hours whether its network or server. You wont get away even if you deal with servers. You will have to stay late if the server crashed or you update something or do back ups and etc.

Depends on your role. We're an IT security company, but our desktop support guys work normal business hours because that's when the people they support work. Doesn't do much good if the sales dude works 9 to 5 and needs software installed on his laptop, and the IT guys work 3rd shift.

The vast majority of our employees work 1st shift. The only exceptions are the NOC and the SOC, which are 24x7, but obviously not all of them are working overnight, some of them are working normal 1st shift hours. If after hours support is needed, pretty much every department has someone on call. So every once in awhile someones night gets ruined, but it's not an every day thing.

I'm something of anomaly, as I work 2nd shift, which I had to talk folks into. I didn't have to try very hard though, as it means I'm in the office after regular business hours, so I get to do most of the scheduled maintenance.

za3bour

Like suggested I would skep A+ and start working on MCITP-Server Administrator which is almost like the MCSA it's only three exams but it will give you a detailed knowledge of Windows Server 2008

Some more info here

MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) | Training Courses for IT Professionals

By passing your first exam you will get the MCTS

Dr_Atomic

za3bour wrote: »

Like suggested I would skep A+ and start working on MCITP-Server Administrator which is almost like the MCSA it's only three exams but it will give you a detailed knowledge of Windows Server 2008

Some more info here

MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) | Training Courses for IT Professionals

By passing your first exam you will get the MCTS

Thanks, this information was helpful in a practical way. So another question for you - when one goes for Cisco certs, one needs to go out and get routers, switches, IP phones, etc, to practice on, and they can of course be expensive, even on ebay. If I were to go after the MCITP, would I need equipment to practice on and buy? What about software? Are there videos one can get to learn what one needs to know? I'm also assuming that each test requires a Microsoft textbook to learn its essentials. What kind of money would I be looking at spending to get this cert? Any kind of a rough breakdown on that?

That was always one of the things I disliked about pursuing Cisco certs - getting the right router/switch, the right modules, the right WICs, the correct cabling, etc. It would be nice to do something different.

za3bour

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

Thanks, this information was helpful in a practical way. So another question for you - when one goes for Cisco certs, one needs to go out and get routers, switches, IP phones, etc, to practice on, and they can of course be expensive, even on ebay. If I were to go after the MCITP, would I need equipment to practice on and buy? What about software? Are there videos one can get to learn what one needs to know? I'm also assuming that each test requires a Microsoft textbook to learn its essentials. What kind of money would I be looking at spending to get this cert? Any kind of a rough breakdown on that?

That was always one of the things I disliked about pursuing Cisco certs - getting the right router/switch, the right modules, the right WICs, the correct cabling, etc. It would be nice to do something different.

To study MCITP what you really need a powerful PC or a laptop with lots of RAM (at least 8GB I would say) and a virtualization solution like VMware, Citrix, virtualbox ...etc

www.virtualbox.org/


Citrix Systems Citrix XenServer: Efficient Server Virtualization Software

VMware Server, Free Virtualization Download for Virtual Server Consolidation

As for Videos I havn't really used any but I hear Train Signal and CBT Nuggets are good resources.

This is exactly what stopped me from pursuing more than a CCNA, the cost in Syria it's really really expensive to buy Cisco gear and if you wanna gonna to a learning center which does have it it's even more expensive.

With MS it's different you need a lab and some books and that's it. As for books you do need at least to get the MS book for each exam or you can buy a total package that would be cheaper.

Take a look at this

Amazon.com: MCITP Self-Paced Training Kit (Exams 70-640, 70-642, 70-643, 70-647): Windows Server® 2008 Enterprise Administrator Core Requirements (9780735625723): Dan Holme, Nelson Ruest, Danielle Ruest, Tony Northrup, J.C. Mackin, Anil Desai, Orin T

it's only 138$ for 4 exams, you do need a book for 70-680 (Win7)

That would be another 38$

Amazon.com: MCTS Windows 7 Configuration Study Guide: Exam 70-680 (9780470568750): William Panek: Books

If you want my recommendation get both MS and Sybex book for each exam if you can afford it. It's always better to have more than one book (they will cover what ever is missing in the other one)


If you prefer PDF you can buy yourself a kindle and PDF books which are cheaper of course.

All in all it's not really that expensive (except the PC) if you do have one why don't you test it first and see it's capabilities.

I hope this does answer your questions and good luck to you

pert

You can use packet tracer for everything in the CCNA and GSN3 for everything routing related up to the IE. Switching and Phones may need gear, but you don't need to buy a switch even for the CCNP as long as you have at least packet tracer. The commands for L3 switching can be memorized without needing to practice.

Gear for IE level tests is pretty expensive, more so for some tracks than others, but you should be able to afford it from the money you'd be earning by that point. (hopefully)

mikej412

pert wrote: »

you don't need to buy a switch even for the CCNP as long as you have at least packet tracer. The commands for L3 switching can be memorized without needing to practice.

I'm just curious who you think would hire a CCNP who has never touched or configured a real switch?

mikej412

Here's a TE post that quotes the Cisco Network Academy FAQ about using Packet Tracer as a replacement for the Academy Hardware Labs:
http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccna-ccent/62148-bare-minimum-materials-requirement-pass-ccent-ccna.html#post490551

videguy

I will have to disagree with some of the other posters. A+ is an entry level certification, but certainly a good one to have none the less. I beat out an internal candidate for a job once due to having my A+ certification. It showed at least a basic level of understanding of hardware and operating systems that the other job candidate could not prove.
You have other higher level certs which is great, but at the same time showing you know the basics as well never hurts. There is a term for people who went to boot camps to pass the MCSE who had no real experience(not including you in this group). They were called paper MCSEs, they passed the tests but did not necessarily know much about computers. They could not install a network card to save their lives.

Just my .02.

pert

mikej412 wrote: »

I'm just curious who you think would hire a CCNP who has never touched or configured a real switch?

I've used switches before. Honestly, the Cisco exams are closer to packet tracer than they are to real hardware. Many people don't have the physical room for a home lab or the money.

I don't make hiring decisions and am not qualified to say what hiring managers do. However, if you feel that someone who honestly studies without using brain **** is less of a CCNP than someone else who had access to physical equipment- I would say your problem is with the CCNP itself and not the individual.

I feel your views are not based on some of the current state of affairs. Maybe before the CCNP was something a technician with a few years network experience took to move up to an engineer role. I don't feel that the CCNA today can get you an entry level networking job, and by that I mean something involving you actually configuring routers or switches, not taking help desk calls.

I've seen a lot of people in school still just go for their CCNP after taking the NA 2 years in, or go for the NP when the NA has failed in their efforts to move beyond help desk. These people do not have a lot of money or a place for a home lab most of the time. These people are not trying to pretend they are network engineers. They are trying to distinguish themselves from the NA holders and tell hiring managers "Hey, I have some ambition, I'm not afraid of hard work, I am very trainable". I think people who started in networking 10years ago see these people as trying to fake that they armchair experts and this is just not the case.

Finally, I was just addressing that you can accomplish anything on the NA or NP with diligent study, regardless of your access to equipment. Unfortunately, everyone will just assumed you braindumped.

CodeBlox

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Yes. I will say that it is that worthless.

I will say that is bullshit. Had an employer tell me to get it about a week ago. He told me to keep in contact and once I have it along with Sec+, let him know. Nothing wrong with getting it if you don't know the material.

Bl8ckr0uter

CodeBlox wrote: »

I will say that is bullshit. Had an employer tell me to get it about a week ago. He told me to keep in contact and once I have it along with Sec+, let him know. Nothing wrong with getting it if you don't know the material.

Read the whole post please

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Ok let me retract my statement. There are certain situations that would make the A+ not worthless ie if you worked for the government, if your job asked for it. All else, don't waste your time.

I still stand by my statement(s) however. Put a different way, the cost of the A+ outweight the benefit of having the A+.

CodeBlox

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Read the whole post please



I still stand by my statement(s) however. Put a different way, the cost of the A+ outweight the benefit of having the A+.

And in my case, I think the benefit far outweighs the cost. And by that I mean it's makes the difference in whether I get the job or not. Oh and by the way, I did read your whole post. It's just so annoying when I hear people say things like cert [blablabla] is useless. That's not the case if you didn't know the material and need to prove that you now do.