The best way to learn server technology

Dr_Atomic

So if I'm going after the MCSA and don't really know server technology (yet), I know to buy the books and maybe watch some available videos. I'm guessing that Microsoft has the official books for each of its tests. Beyond that, I'm not sure what I'll need. I believe I've kind of asked this question before, but I can't find the post.

For the MCSA, I'll need the 70-290 and 70-291 - both server certs. For the client operating systems, I'd want to take the 70-680 (Windows 7). And that should do it for me, as I have the Security+. Should one of the server tests be studied for before the other, or just pick one?

But my most important question is the methods to use to learn the server information.

Thanks for any input.

Essendon

Ditch the MS Press books and go with TechNet. Why you may ask. Because I said so. Seriously though, TechNet is probably the most comprehensive documentation out there for MS products, complete and almost never wrong. The other good thing about it, it's free. On the other hand, the MS Press books are dry, not in-depth enough or poorly worded. The questions at the back of each chapter are ridiculously easy, way too easy compared with the actual exam. I have heard good things about the Windows Resource kits too, but they are not free.

Best way to go according to me, read the exam blueprint, read TechNet, make notes and lab as you go. Ensure you know why sh1t's working the way it is. Break something that's working and fix it. That way you know where to click when you run into a real problem. Come up with scenario's of your own. For example, when you are going through the 290 (70-290 exam) permissions stuff, play with inheritance, explicit denys and allows as much as you can.

The key to learning the material and subsequently passing the exam is to lab the hell out of it.

Now you might be thinking what's a lab. Download VMware or VirtualPC or any other virtualisation software, download the ISO's for the OS's, build the OS and you are set. You'll need a decent computer, one with about 4GB RAM and an E6500 processor (which is the minimum to run 2008 R2). I believe the ISO's for 2003 are still available somewhere on MS's website and the 2008 ISO's definitely are.

Any problems you run into, there are plenty of smart cats around here to help. So post away!

erpadmin

Why in Hades would you want to spend time and energy learning a server technology (2003) that has already experienced end-of-life and will experience the end of extended support in 2015? Yeah you still have shops that have 2003 boxes, but you're better off studying for 2008 R2 (many of my shop's new boxes are already on 08 R2).

Your energies are better spent gunning for the MCITP:SA (2008's equivalent of the MCSA). If you want to learn for that, get yourself a beefy box that can handle VMs and plop 2008 on that and your VMs. There are a good number of resources (MS Press Books, with erratas), Sybex (with errata) and stuff on the web that can only help you. Plus, the stuff you learn on 2008 CAN be used for shops that are still on 2003.

Check out these two links. One talks about the change in functionality from 2003 to 2008 (R1). The other talks about the change in functionality from 2008 (R1) to 2008 (R2). Your energies will be best spent, IMO, on learning about those differences so that you can focus on getting up to speed on 2008 R2 and then showing prospective employers or whoever how and why your 2008 can still be applied to 2003.

Changes in Functionality from Windows Server 2003 with SP1 to Windows Server 2008

What's New: Changes in Functionality from Windows Server 2008 to Windows Server 2008 R2

Dr_Atomic

Essendon wrote: »

Now you might be thinking what's a lab. Download VMware or VirtualPC or any other virtualisation software, download the ISO's for the OS's, build the OS and you are set.

I think you're assuming I know exactly what you're talking about here and know what to do. I know about VMware and that it's a learning curve all in itself that I'll need to conquer before I even begin studying for any MCSA test. As far as the rest of what you suggested, could you dumb down some of that into a kind of a simple how-to guide?

docrice

If you want to learn Microsoft server technologies, the best way is to set up a home network that you are very dependent on. All services such as file sharing, DHCP, DNS, etc., run on Microsoft servers that you install, configure, and maintain. If you're like most people and plug in a Linksys to be the front-edge of your connection to your ISP and let it handle the internal networking services, you take a lot for granted. Forcing yourself to rely on your own creation puts you in the envious position of accelerated learning (so to speak).

Simulate an actual business environment by running AD, making your machines domain members, set up Group Policy, etc.. If you break something, you're forced to fix it or else your household will start opening tickets (stickies left on your door) and the dog will start barking. Then you can yell at them and threaten to lengthen the password policy to 127 characters and remove everyone administrative privileges on their machine (which you should do anyways ... seriously).

Get a TechNet subscription and run everything on a dedicated virtualization server using ESXi or something.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/default.aspx

Have at least a RAID1 or RAID5, and 8 GB of memory or more. This is what I use:

http://www.kimiushida.com/bitsandpieces/articles/vmware_esxi_network-in-a-box/

Essendon

Sure.

VMware server is available free for download at here. VirtualPC is here

Creating a VM tutorial is here . There are plenty of other resources you can google for simple and basic VMware tutorials. To be able to create Operating Systems in VMware, you'll need iso files of the OS's. The tutorial I linked to tells you how to use those iso files to build an OS.

I'd recommend using VMware over VirtualPC since you will be using a technology that's actually quite widely deployed in production.

Download Windows Server 2008 R2 here
Download Windows Server 2003 here < Dont know whether this is legit or not.

You'll learn as you go, I had no clue about VMware when I first downloaded it. Asked around, read a lot of articles and gradually learned it. You'll do just fine, just dive right into it.

MentholMoose

I would get some books and work through them. They prevent similar content to official documentation, but in a way that is more conducive to learning. I mostly use Sybex books and haven't found them too dry, but I think most MS Press books are OK, too. If you are just starting out, I think documentation is too complicated.

Besides reading, you need hands on experience. If you aren't working with these technologies, start learning about virtualization. VMware Server and Microsoft VirtualPC are fine, but a better option is VirtualBox. It is free, feature rich, and still actively developed, and there are many free guides to help you get started.
Let me google that for you

Turgon

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I think you're assuming I know exactly what you're talking about here and know what to do. I know about VMware and that it's a learning curve all in itself that I'll need to conquer before I even begin studying for any MCSA test. As far as the rest of what you suggested, could you dumb down some of that into a kind of a simple how-to guide?

The best way to learn server technologies is to build and configure. You certainly need to do some reading as you go but there is no substitute for hands on exposure. Server admins are a dime a dozen these days so if you want to compete you need to be assembling a lab either virtual or real and take it from there. Learn the basics of server builds, the basics of interoperability, and from there concentrate on the admin utilities, performance management, back and restore and finally automation and scripting.

za3bour

Essendon wrote: »

Download Windows Server 2008 R2 here
Download Windows Server 2003 here < Dont know whether this is legit or not.

You can download a legit one (Windows Server 2003 R2) from here

Download details: Microsoft Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition VHD

billyr

erpadmin wrote: »

Why in Hades would you want to spend time and energy learning a server technology (2003) that has already experienced end-of-life and will experience the end of extended support in 2015?

Because this is 2011, not 2015 and the majority of companies still run on Server 2003 and will continue to do so for some time.

earweed

I personally think the NEXT server OS will be the NEW 2003. 2003 was good so people switched to it and the economic times were good for it. Corporations wont switch from 2003 until MS MAKES them (which will be 2015).

Dr_Atomic

Is there a VMware for dummies book or tutorial out there? You know, something to help you learn it for those of us who don't pick it up like a fish to water?

Essendon

There was this link I posted in my earlier post in this thread about a simple tutorial for creating VM's. This'll get you started, thing is not to get bogged down with learning how to play with VMware. It happened to me, when I first began using VMware I would just go on breaking and fixing VMware and its intricacies rather than focus on the Microsoft side of things. My advice is to download the program, install it and use the tutorial I linked to to start creating your VM's.

cyberguypr

Essendon wrote: »

... thing is not to get bogged down with learning how to play with VMware. It happened to me, when I first began using VMware I would just go on breaking and fixing VMware and its intricacies rather than focus on the Microsoft side of things. My advice is to download the program, install it and use the tutorial I linked to to start creating your VM's.

So true. I deployed a VMware server years ago just to try it out and ended up setting an Open Filer box and other cool things that consumed way too much time. Stick to the basics and learn how to set it up. If you just eant to get a few VMs running it is really a straight forward process. There are tons of videos on youtube as well as a zillion blog posts everywhere with issues you may encounter. I had some minor issues with drivers but that was back with ESX 3.0. With 4.1 chances of experiencing weird issues decrease exponentially.

phoeneous

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

Is there a VMware for dummies book or tutorial out there? You know, something to help you learn it for those of us who don't pick it up like a fish to water?

Screw vmware, get virtualbox instead. It is easier than thinking about how easy it is.

Essendon

Yupp you can go with virtualbox too, but the only other reason why I suggested VMware was for the experience with working on something that's quite widely deployed. When this guy rocks up at an interview, the odds are the employer would ask "You got any experience with VMware" If he says yes, he does brighten his chances of employment. But virtualbox does the job too, so go for either!

Dr_Atomic

Essendon wrote: »

There was this link I posted in my earlier post in this thread about a simple tutorial for creating VM's. This'll get you started, thing is not to get bogged down with learning how to play with VMware. It happened to me, when I first began using VMware I would just go on breaking and fixing VMware and its intricacies rather than focus on the Microsoft side of things.

That's the trick, isn't it? Knowing when to stop banging your head against the VMware and start learning the server stuff. If I'm trying to figure out the VMware, it's because I need it to learn the server technology, so it's not like it can be put aside. I think I'll start with learning the VMware technology by downloading what I need, going over the tutorials, etc, before I go out and purchase a lot of MCSA-related books/videos/whatever. If VMware proves to be too much of a beast, I'll reassess my goals to see what's attainable without a trip to the psychiatric ward.

Btw, thanks for all the links and assistance. If I can get this thing, I will.

MentholMoose

That's why I suggest VirtualBox. You should have less trouble with it since it is actively being updated, whereas VMware Server is EOL. The VirtualBox team has really worked to make it user friendly. Of course they have a forum where you can get help, too:
Index page - virtualbox.org

Dr_Atomic

Essendon wrote: »

There was this link I posted in my earlier post in this thread about a simple tutorial for creating VM's. This'll get you started, thing is not to get bogged down with learning how to play with VMware. It happened to me, when I first began using VMware I would just go on breaking and fixing VMware and its intricacies rather than focus on the Microsoft side of things. My advice is to download the program, install it and use the tutorial I linked to to start creating your VM's.

I downloaded the program and when I tried to run the .exe file, I got the error message "Setup cannot continue. The Microsoft runtime DLL installer failed to complete installation."

I dunno what is causing this problem, but a google of it shows that a lot of people encounter this. Haven't found the solution yet.

phoeneous

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I downloaded the program and when I tried to run the .exe file, I got the error message "Setup cannot continue. The Microsoft runtime DLL installer failed to complete installation."

I dunno what is causing this problem, but a google of it shows that a lot of people encounter this. Haven't found the solution yet.

Hint: Virtualbox.

Dr_Atomic

phoeneous wrote: »

Hint: Virtualbox.

I'm looking now. Sure, VMware would be nice to know in addition to an MCSA, but maybe I should tackle one technology at a time. I can always investigate VMware afterward, right?

Dr_Atomic

MentholMoose wrote: »

I would get some books and work through them. They prevent similar content to official documentation, but in a way that is more conducive to learning. I mostly use Sybex books and haven't found them too dry, but I think most MS Press books are OK, too. If you are just starting out, I think documentation is too complicated.

Besides reading, you need hands on experience. If you aren't working with these technologies, start learning about virtualization. VMware Server and Microsoft VirtualPC are fine, but a better option is VirtualBox. It is free, feature rich, and still actively developed, and there are many free guides to help you get started.
Let me google that for you

Many thanks for that. Unlike VMware, I successfully downloaded and opened Virtualbox. I'm ordering the MS book for 70-290 now. I'll probably obtain the CBT Nuggets videos and work in the book/videos together and figure out where/when to incorporate the Virtualbox in the meantime.

Wish me luck!

Devilsbane

I was in your shoes only a couple of years ago. I had never touched a server and knew very little about them. The best way to learn quickly is trial by fire. And that means setting up a lab, unless you happen to know someone who wouldn't mind you tinkinering with their production environment .

Vmware, virtualpc, virtualbox, it doesn't matter. Pick one and go with it. I have labs designed on both vmware and virutalpc and prefer vmware workstation by far. It gives you a lot more control over what is going on. Of course it also costs money, but considering that I have used it for at least 4 or 5 exams now, it really isn't too bad. (I think I paid just over $100 for it). Don't get caught up in learning how to use vmware, it is pretty simple. If it is the option you pick, I can run you through a quick tutorial that will help you with pretty much everything you need to do.

2003 or 2008? There are posts all over these forums on which are better. Some say 2003 because that is what out there and that is what is being used. Others point to 2008 stating that 2003 is dead and gone. You can point to dates when products will stop being used, but I know for a fact that there are still 2000 servers in production here. None of them are domain controllers anymore, but they are still out there. MCSA/MCSE carries the name weight while MCITP:SA/MCITP:EA carry the new technologies. 90+% of which are the same. Just some slightly different interfaces and of course some new options with the MCITP. I don't think there really is a wrong choice. (Another thing to keep in mind is that you can’t take full advantage of all of the benefits 2003 has to offer until all of the 2003 Domain Controllers have been removed from the network. So just because company X is deploying 2008 might not mean much until next year or later when they finally upgrade their last DC)

Whichever route you go, some videos will probably be nice. If you go the 2003 route, James Conrad did the CBT Nuggets for the 290 and 291. (along with the 293, 294, and 298 if you continue the MCSE path). Not sure on 2008, but I think he did at least some of the videos there. These are nice because they give you that hands on experience. You can watch someone else in action to give you an idea of what you can do, and then take that back to your lab to tinker with on your own. Very expensive ($400 for a video series vs $50-$100 for a book) but I think you get what you pay for.

Speaking of books, I highly recommend one. All of the hands on experience in the world is still going to leave gaps. There are things that just need to be remembered. Depending on which test you are looking at will be a different book. So after you pick the exam you want to take (I would highly advise the 290 before the 291 by the way) ask around for what others are using. Yes you can find most, if not all of this information on Technet. But that requires you to need to know what to look for and where to find it. You are bound to miss something. Not saying technet is bad, I use it all of the time as a supplement to my reading/labbing. But I like having that structure of the book to keep me on topic. Plus with the price of a book (some even in the $30 range) you really can't go wrong with buying one.

Additional advice: Ask questions. My favorite thing about this forum is asking questions about things that I don’t fully understand and someone can help point me in the right direction. Other advice is to find some practice questions. I like using Transcender, but I know there are others out there.

Sorry for the long post, but your question was a bigger bite than you think.
+rep goes to the posts above with links to where you can download 2003/2008. I wasn’t aware of these.

Dr_Atomic

phoeneous wrote: »

Screw vmware, get virtualbox instead. It is easier than thinking about how easy it is.

I downloaded Virtualbox, but do I also need a Windows Server 2003 program to run on it that I'm going to use for my MCSA studies? I downloaded what I thought was the Server 2003, but found out it was only the service pack (I think I broke my brain figuring that out). Would you happen to know where this could be found?

Thanks!

Essendon

Microsoft doesnt have Server 2003 for download anymore. I had a link saved to their Windows Server 2003 download, but that link now redirects to the Windows Server 2008 R2 page. It's going to be hard to locate a legit download, there are heaps of illegit downloads floating around on the internet - if you decide you try one of those, beware, they may have a significant malware payload.

BTW, did you read the last pm I sent ya Dr_Atomic.

Dr_Atomic

Essendon wrote: »

Microsoft doesnt have Server 2003 for download anymore. I had a link saved to their Windows Server 2003 download, but that link now redirects to the Windows Server 2008 R2 page. It's going to be hard to locate a legit download, there are heaps of illegit downloads floating around on the internet - if you decide you try one of those, beware, they may have a significant malware payload.

BTW, did you read the last pm I sent ya Dr_Atomic.

I just now realized that even though I have the Virtualbox downloaded, I lack the Windows Server 2003 OS to run on it! I was thinking that since it was all virtual, VB would give me a virtual Server 2003 OS as well. What do I know.....

I did read your PM. I've already committed to Windows Server 2003, so now I'm trying to locate this OS for download to use with VB. If I can't find a free download, I guess I'll have to go to eBay and buy one. I just need to get this stinking thing going so I can get some work done.

Turgon

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I just now realized that even though I have the Virtualbox downloaded, I lack the Windows Server 2003 OS to run on it! I was thinking that since it was all virtual, VB would give me a virtual Server 2003 OS as well. What do I know.....

I did read your PM. I've already committed to Windows Server 2003, so now I'm trying to locate this OS for download to use with VB. If I can't find a free download, I guess I'll have to go to eBay and buy one. I just need to get this stinking thing going so I can get some work done.

If you buy on ebay will it be licenced?

Essendon

Just checked ebay and the OS is going to cost you a TON of money, like in excess of $700. If you have money to burn go for it. Otherwise, read and re-read the pm I sent ya and make your life a whole lot easier. Thing is you dont need just one copy of the OS to learn it, you'll need atleast 2 copies of the software and an XP client machine. Maybe you can use the Client Access Licenses (CAL's) but then the OS with the CAL's will cost you upwards of $800. Hint Hint - read my pm again!

MentholMoose

If you're a student you can get 2003 free from Dreamspark:
https://www.dreamspark.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=12

Also, the 2003 trial ISOs are still available from Microsoft, but I'm not sure if you need a product key:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/5/C/E5C2CA69-28C9-492A-8F57-BDA0010616E5/X13-05665.img
http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/5/C/E5C2CA69-28C9-492A-8F57-BDA0010616E5/X13-05463.img

If you're considering buying Server 2003, look into getting a TechNet subscription instead. You will get Server 2003 along with dozens of other Microsoft products.
TechNet Subscriptions

Dr_Atomic

Essendon wrote: »

Just checked ebay and the OS is going to cost you a TON of money, like in excess of $700. If you have money to burn go for it. Otherwise, read and re-read the pm I sent ya and make your life a whole lot easier. Thing is you dont need just one copy of the OS to learn it, you'll need atleast 2 copies of the software and an XP client machine. Maybe you can use the Client Access Licenses (CAL's) but then the OS with the CAL's will cost you upwards of $800. Hint Hint - read my pm again!

I read your PM. You tried to convince me to go with Windows Server 2008. I already told you that I've committed to Server 2003.

All I hear you telling me is how difficult and expensive it's going to be to pursue an MCSA. I'm going to need multiple OSs, I can't use Windows 7, etc, etc. Instead of being cryptic with your messages, maybe you could just tell me the easiest way to accomplish my goals. I'm not seeing it in your PM.

Turgon

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I read your PM. You tried to convince me to go with Windows Server 2008. I already told you that I've committed to Server 2003.

All I hear you telling me is how difficult and expensive it's going to be to pursue an MCSA. I'm going to need multiple OSs, I can't use Windows 7, etc, etc. Instead of being cryptic with your messages, maybe you could just tell me the easiest way to accomplish my goals. I'm not seeing it in your PM.

Dude people are trying to help you for free on their own time or on works time. We are all busy people.