I think I am done with M$$ exams now

jibbajabba

I just got my third MCITP and I am done .. I never intended to get them but my company pretty much "bribed" me over the last few years so who would refuse $$ ey ...

Anyway - I am now actually fed up with Microsoft exams. I think until they change the style of the exams to be more **** proof I won't even consider any more ..

bertieb

I kinda feel what you mean there. The MS exams leave a lot to be desired, and their worth has decreased as almost everybody holds some kind of MS certification. They haven't done enough to deal with **** sites and cheaters, but also the exams have been of poor quality of late.

I totally changed my thoughts with regards to all cert exams now - in that I'll study to learn something and then take the certification exam when I'm happy - I admit this wasn't always my driving factor in the early days.

Plus, I find that stuff like Cisco/VMware etc is much more interesting, to me at least

I'll have £10 that says you do another MS exam at some point this year...... you can't get away from them that easily

jibbajabba

Well personally I would love to be "THE" virtualization guy, so it would make a lot of sense for me to go for Hyper-V exams, Xen and the lot and simply ignore the whole other shebang (MCITP:SA, EA, MA).

But nah - not gonna do it ..

SteveO86

I was actually fairly surprised when I took my upgrade exams for MCITP.. MCSA exam had those simulation type questions where as the new tests were only multiple choice.. Seemed like a step backwards to me.

Claymoore

I said the same thing 2 years ago. 13 exams later, I'm still taking them.

I'll be going for my 4th MCITP next week and my 5th a couple of months after that. Had I gone to work for a Cisco partner instead of a Microsoft partner, things would be different.

RobertKaucher

SteveO86 wrote: »

I was actually fairly surprised when I took my upgrade exams for MCITP.. MCSA exam had those simulation type questions where as the new tests were only multiple choice.. Seemed like a step backwards to me.

They moved to a new VM based sim technology but the test centers with their consumer DSL and Pentium III test PCs could not handle it. Too many issues with the exams. I am certain the this will be overcome at some point.

jibbajabba

RobertKaucher wrote: »

They moved to a new VM based sim technology but the test centers with their consumer DSL and Pentium III test PCs could not handle it. Too many issues with the exams. I am certain the this will be overcome at some point.

Doesn't it clearly show though that Microsoft isn't really bothered to push those new exams ? Surely they could tell Prometric that this is how it should be done, even if it requires upgrades of their PCs.

On the other hand this is also a business so Microsoft might just accepts the fact that there are **** out there because it does indeed bring in money, one way or another.

I mean I have yet to hear that someone did indeed get de-certified for the use of brain ****.

N2IT

Gomjaba wrote: »

I just got my third MCITP and I am done .. I never intended to get them but my company pretty much "bribed" me over the last few years so who would refuse $$ ey ...

Anyway - I am now actually fed up with Microsoft exams. I think until they change the style of the exams to be more **** proof I won't even consider any more ..

I've only done a few.

The MOS series which most people wouldn't consider certifications and I failed 70-433 so that's my extent with MS.

RobertKaucher

Gomjaba wrote: »

Doesn't it clearly show though that Microsoft isn't really bothered to push those new exams ? Surely they could tell Prometric that this is how it should be done, even if it requires upgrades of their PCs.

On the other hand this is also a business so Microsoft might just accepts the fact that there are **** out there because it does indeed bring in money, one way or another.

I mean I have yet to hear that someone did indeed get de-certified for the use of brain ****.

This is probably the wrong way to look at it. The cost of MS certs has not changed in at least a decade. MS promotes certification because it promotes their technologies. It makes them money because there are skilled individuals in the market who can implement their server systems - which means more companies will buy their stuff from VARs/etc.

The idea that MS can just mandate things like this is also wrong. Prometric is the middleman - they don't actually offer the exams. They just act as the central authority for exam distribution and scheduling.

I've spoken to many people who work at testing centers and they will tell you that they make very little on certification exams. An MS cert is only $100 with a discount voucher (and who pays full price?). They offer them because they go in conjunction with the courses they teach. Are you going to take a course for the MCITP from a place that does not offer the exam? They want to be a one stop certification shop. These places are all small businesses; which means highspeed Internet connections and 50 brand new PCs every year is not in their budget.

Even with the sims it does not matter. One of my buddies once showed me that you could find all the sims for the 290/291 exams on YouTube. Not just how to do the tasks but these videos actually displayed the test environment. They do what they can, but it has to be cost effective. They are not going to not offer certification, but the cost of managing certification cannot be so high that it becomes unproductive.

It's like saying if the US Government really cared about what was going on with WikiLeaks they could block the site. Well, no they couldn't. That's not the way the Internet really works. And that's the same problem MS has with their certification process. Moving the test format to sims might even make dumping easier. I can remember all the sim questions from the 290 exam because they were situational and I took that in 2007. I don't, however, recall any of the multiple choice questions and answers specifically. So to make a **** for that all I have to do is make a series of training videos that explains each task. So where do you draw the line between the educational videos and those that just show answers?

jibbajabba

RobertKaucher wrote: »

This is probably the wrong way to look at it. The cost of MS certs has not changed in at least a decade. MS promotes certification because it promotes their technologies. It makes them money because there are skilled individuals in the market who can implement their server systems - which means more companies will buy their stuff from VARs/etc.

The idea that MS can just mandate things like this is also wrong. Prometric is the middleman - they don't actually offer the exams. They just act as the central authority for exam distribution and scheduling.

I've spoken to many people who work at testing centers and they will tell you that they make very little on certification exams. An MS cert is only $100 with a discount voucher (and who pays full price?). They offer them because they go in conjunction with the courses they teach. Are you going to take a course for the MCITP from a place that does not offer the exam? They want to be a one stop certification shop. These places are all small businesses; which means highspeed Internet connections and 50 brand new PCs every year is not in their budget.

Even with the sims it does not matter. One of my buddies once showed me that you could find all the sims for the 290/291 exams on YouTube. Not just how to do the tasks but these videos actually displayed the test environment. They do what they can, but it has to be cost effective. They are not going to not offer certification, but the cost of managing certification cannot be so high that it becomes unproductive.

It's like saying if the US Government really cared about what was going on with WikiLeaks they could block the site. Well, no they couldn't. That's not the way the Internet really works. And that's the same problem MS has with their certification process. Moving the test format to sims might even make dumping easier. I can remember all the sim questions from the 290 exam because they were situational and I took that in 2007. I don't, however, recall any of the multiple choice questions and answers specifically. So to make a **** for that all I have to do is make a series of training videos that explains each task. So where do you draw the line between the educational videos and those that just show answers?

Good points actually .. pretty much agree with all you said there .. I guess it is just the frustration speaking here ... I just don't feel like I achieved something. I was proud as a bunny when I passed my VCPs.

SteveO86

RobertKaucher wrote: »

They moved to a new VM based sim technology but the test centers with their consumer DSL and Pentium III test PCs could not handle it. Too many issues with the exams. I am certain the this will be overcome at some point.

I'm always amazed when I go to a testing center and the test run off an old Optiplex GX240 or older PC..

it_consultant

Even tougher tests like Cisco can be brain dumped.

RobertKaucher

Gomjaba wrote: »

Good points actually .. pretty much agree with all you said there .. I guess it is just the frustration speaking here ... I just don't feel like I achieved something. I was proud as a bunny when I passed my VCPs.

I know what you mean. Certification has become a hobby to me. Not so much a part of my career plan any more.

jibbajabba

Funny enough, I never needed a cert to get a job ...

bertieb

Gomjaba wrote: »

Funny enough, I never needed a cert to get a job ...

Me neither, but the knowledge and skills gained from a thorough and structured study path as part of trying to obtain a certification certainly has in my case. A subtle difference, but a big one nonetheless.

N2IT

Gomjaba wrote: »

Funny enough, I never needed a cert to get a job ...

Me either.

Most of the system admins in my company and the previous company I worked for all had degrees and some had masters, but not many had certifications. What's funny is the same goes for our network guys, except for 2 guys who are full blown in Cisco.

One of our best IT minds in the company has a masters from Virginia Tech along with his bachelors, but has 0 certifications. That doesn't mean he doesn't read the MS books he does. His library is insane, still no certifications. He has deployed and configured several SCCM environments.

Anyway I think the reason most people do certs is for the badge or honor, because the enjoy them, because they are afraid they will lose out on a job because a future employer might require a popular certification, or a current employer is requiring the certification for advancement or to continue employment.

I think most people who just want to learn the technology does just that, learns the technology and doesn't get caught up in testing. Testing really doesn't make you a better tech, knowing the material however does.

Personally for me I enjoy the rush of testing. I like going at a test and passing. It's an addiction that I crave . I love the happy chemicals that pop off in my neck and back after passing an exam. The harder the exam the harder the chemicals flow.

Not to mention I like tossing down all the certifications on my resume with hopes it will propel me over the edge into a more prestigous and technical/business role.

RobertKaucher

Gomjaba wrote: »

Funny enough, I never needed a cert to get a job ...

bertieb wrote: »

Me neither, but the knowledge and skills gained from a thorough and structured study path as part of trying to obtain a certification certainly has in my case. A subtle difference, but a big one nonetheless.

True and true. This is why I focus on beta certifications or things that I need to learn well to do my job. I get trainning support from work (AppDev and MSDN subscriptions) and the exam objectives help me a lot.

I'm a little jaded on certification - but I would not have the job I do currently if I had not studied hard for the certs I have. Well, most of them. Some are useless, like the MCITP EDA7 cert. But it was fun to study for. Gomjaba - all I can say is I really know what you mean.

RobertKaucher

N2IT wrote: »

Not to mention I like tossing down all the certifications on my resume with hopes it will propel me over the edge into a more prestigous and technical/business role.

Exactly! And having studied the material in a deep and structured way you end up knowing things that guys/gals who just do the job on a daily basis don't because they are never exposed to them.

I'd rep you, but I can't.

2E151

SteveO86 wrote: »

I was actually fairly surprised when I took my upgrade exams for MCITP.. MCSA exam had those simulation type questions where as the new tests were only multiple choice.

Are you serious? I assumed all the upgrades would be atleast Sim/Multiple choice as well. That's absurd.

mikedisd2

SteveO86 wrote: »

I was actually fairly surprised when I took my upgrade exams for MCITP.. MCSA exam had those simulation type questions where as the new tests were only multiple choice.. Seemed like a step backwards to me.

That's terrible. Sim questions are almost like free points.

Daniel333

I too gave up them. When I did my 74-640 (or was it 72?) I loved it! It was a cake walk! SIM based testing is the way to go. You can either do it, or you can't. I have no idea why they went back to the 70-640.

Ultimately I am not "too" worried about cheaters as much as I am worried about the disconnect between the training materials.

I gave up Microsoft exams after finishing my MCSE:Sec. I loved the sound of that, MCSE:Sec so I mowed through. But honestly after my ISA server exam and the 70-293 I think it was. I was done. COMPLETELY disconnected. Questions that had nothing to do with what I studied from 2-3 sources. I just feel the tests should be inline with the training.

2E151

Daniel333 wrote: »

Ultimately I am not "too" worried about cheaters

Cheaters are going to **** regardless of whether its a 500 question pool or a 1500 question pool. Same goes for simulation based exams; someone somewhere will always find a way to take screenshots or post walkthroughs on the simulations. If its a high demand cert like Microsoft or Cisco, cheaters will find a way to ****. I came to terms with that years ago.

But for everyone one who gets job because of it, another 9 flunk out of the technical interview. People have been dumping with abandon for going on 15 years. We know this, they know this, and the Hiring Managers know this.

The point of the matter is if you let that determine your career choices then your letting them win because HR will continue screening resumes for acronyms. You've got the technical knowledge but they've got the cert. Don't get passed over because of what someone else does.