What exactly is helpdesk nowadays?

edzy

Wasn't helpdesk & level 1 tech support a means to getting your foot in the door? Why do i need a bachelors in computer science if i'm gonna be replacing keyboards and removing malware?

From my little bit of experience job searching, every employer has different and sometimes ridiculous requirements. How does someone gain employment when entry level jobs want 3 yrs+ of experience, a folder full of certs, and a damn degree? I went on 2 interviews this month but didn't get either gig due to lack of experience. First was a desktop job that needed someone who was experienced with vmware(they didn't list this in the job posting.) I've used it before, but the memory fades if something isn't used for a while. I explained this and was told "i don't have the time to teach you, i need someone who can come in running"...they only offered 8 bucks an hr. I could get more flipping burgers -_-.

Second was a helpdesk gig. I met all the requirements and the interview went quite well until i met with the manager. According to her, my experience was worthless since it wasn't in an office environment. I worked at a PC shop for 3 yrs to get my start in IT. Since it was a retail environment, she didn't see that as "real" experience...her words.

So, the question is, how am i suppose to get something if no one is willing to give the newbie a chance? I know i can get an internship, but 99% of them are unpaid and i'm not in a financial state where i can work for free. A metrocard alone is 100+ bucks a month along with other expenses.

Sorry for the vent, but it's kinda depressing that i can't find work. Hopefully persistence will pay off.

shaqazoolu

Persistence will pay off. I was in the same situation a little over 3 years ago WITH a bachelor's in information systems and a boatload of management level customer service experience and I still couldn't get my foot in the door. The opportunity that I got was pivotal in getting to where I am now so I'm glad I didn't get any of the positions that passed me up because I was inexperienced. The right one will come along, just keep going.

Turgon

edzy wrote: »

Wasn't helpdesk & level 1 tech support a means to getting your foot in the door? Why do i need a bachelors in computer science if i'm gonna be replacing keyboards and removing malware?

From my little bit of experience job searching, every employer has different and sometimes ridiculous requirements. How does someone gain employment when entry level jobs want 3 yrs+ of experience, a folder full of certs, and a damn degree? I went on 2 interviews this month but didn't get either gig due to lack of experience. First was a desktop job that needed someone who was experienced with vmware(they didn't list this in the job posting.) I've used it before, but the memory fades if something isn't used for a while. I explained this and was told "i don't have the time to teach you, i need someone who can come in running"...they only offered 8 bucks an hr. I could get more flipping burgers -_-.

Second was a helpdesk gig. I met all the requirements and the interview went quite well until i met with the manager. According to her, my experience was worthless since it wasn't in an office environment. I worked at a PC shop for 3 yrs to get my start in IT. Since it was a retail environment, she didn't see that as "real" experience...her words.

So, the question is, how am i suppose to get something if no one is willing to give the newbie a chance? I know i can get an internship, but 99% of them are unpaid and i'm not in a financial state where i can work for free. A metrocard alone is 100+ bucks a month along with other expenses.

Sorry for the vent, but it's kinda depressing that i can't find work. Hopefully persistence will pay off.

I think one of the problems is you are punting for the same jobs as everyone else. There is nothing wrong with helpdesk and desktop support, in fact I would recommend everyone does a stint there, it's how I started. But there was a lot more hands on in those days and you could use your initiative more to define how things were done. Self starter was a more accurate description of the role back then, and with NT coming in followed by Y2K there was a hell of a lot of migration experience in the offing.

Vertical career path from helpdesk is increasingly difficult these days and with seemingly everyone heading to helpdesk for their first break the expectations of many hiring managers are unrealistic. The lack of investment in training people, in your case in VMWare, is a real problem today. The margins that operations works with are getting tighter and you can easily find yourself wanting the next job up the ladder which is held by someone who isn't going anywhere soon. By the time you get *close* there could be a merger and the Corporate IT policy requires the company to lay some of you off. Two IT departments usually means one thing..

So the above is a combination of things that if they come together could make helpdesk a cul de sac for your career. But it isn't always so. People still do it and get on.

I think with your experience in the PC shop you are better off hitting up the network and solutions providers across NYC. There must be thousands of these companies of all sizes. Get in with a company like that and Im sure they would not only value your experience but they would also offer you lots of room for growth. Helpdesk jobs are quite formalized these days which doesn't require a self starter. You are often told precisely what to do and how to work. Take the self starter approach to a company that wants it. Integrators, solutions shops, Resellers, Providers. Small, medium sized shops are just as good as larger ones, and sometime better.

NetworkingStudent

edzy wrote: »

Wasn't helpdesk & level 1 tech support a means to getting your foot in the door? Why do i need a bachelors in computer science if i'm gonna be replacing keyboards and removing malware?

From my little bit of experience job searching, every employer has different and sometimes ridiculous requirements. How does someone gain employment when entry level jobs want 3 yrs+ of experience, a folder full of certs, and a damn degree? I went on 2 interviews this month but didn't get either gig due to lack of experience. First was a desktop job that needed someone who was experienced with vmware(they didn't list this in the job posting.) I've used it before, but the memory fades if something isn't used for a while. I explained this and was told "i don't have the time to teach you, i need someone who can come in running"...they only offered 8 bucks an hr. I could get more flipping burgers -_-.

Second was a helpdesk gig. I met all the requirements and the interview went quite well until i met with the manager. According to her, my experience was worthless since it wasn't in an office environment. I worked at a PC shop for 3 yrs to get my start in IT. Since it was a retail environment, she didn't see that as "real" experience...her words.

So, the question is, how am i suppose to get something if no one is willing to give the newbie a chance? I know i can get an internship, but 99% of them are unpaid and i'm not in a financial state where i can work for free. A metrocard alone is 100+ bucks a month along with other expenses.

Sorry for the vent, but it's kinda depressing that i can't find work. Hopefully persistence will pay off.

I’m frustrated too.
I have an A.A.S degree and A+, Net+ and Security+. I have gotten 3 interviews and one volunteer gig from craigs list and maybe one interview from career builder. It is frustrating to keep looking and have a hard time finding something. Are you sending cover letters out? Are you using craigs list? I have had the best luck with craigs list. Here are the IT craig list posting sections in New York

new york city computer gigs classifieds - craigslist

new york city technical support jobs classifieds - craigslist

new york city systems/networking jobs classifieds - craigslist

new york city software/QA/DBA/etc jobs classifieds - craigslist

Watching this cheered up a little during my job search.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lboQbFTItSwkc
Good Luck..I hope this helps

bertieb

Helpdesk used to be the place where great system/network admins, engineers, architects and consultants began to be forged. These days, you spend more time following processes and pre-written scripts than really getting your feet wet but I'd still recommend that anyone spends some time there. I'm of the opinion that all experiences help in the long run, good or bad!

I think you need to persevere. You'll see a lot of success in the forums, though maybe not immediately. What you need to ask yourself is 'why should a potential employer hire me instead of Joe Bloggs?' and go from there. You need to start networking with people, user groups, forums etc etc and keep plugging away. It's difficult I agree. Good luck!

Pash

bertieb wrote: »

Helpdesk used to be the place where great system/network admins, engineers, architects and consultants began to be forged. These days, you spend more time following processes and pre-written scripts than really getting your feet wet but I'd still recommend that anyone spends some time there. I'm of the opinion that all experiences help in the long run, good or bad!

I think you need to persevere. You'll see a lot of success in the forums, though maybe not immediately. What you need to ask yourself is 'why should a potential employer hire me instead of Joe Bloggs?' and go from there. You need to start networking with people, user groups, forums etc etc and keep plugging away. It's difficult I agree. Good luck!

This hit's nail on head.

Pash.

BradleyHU

well it depends on the company's definition of help desk. It can be just level 1 support, simple password resets, account unlocks, simple hardware install/removal, installing simple software, etc. Or in some companies, help desk is desktop support, especially if they have no level 1 or 2.

rsutton

I think the corporate help desk has really changed over the years. I started doing help desk in the 90's and back then the help desk technician was a mysterious being who's role was less of a niche than it is now. Companies see that their help desk team is the "face" of IT, the group that regularly interfaces with all levels of people including the most senior levels of management. It's no surprise they want highly educated people for these positions. You can expect that the larger the company, the more education they will want to see.

That's also the great thing about Help Desk, if you succeed, you will know how to talk to all types of business people and you will have a solid foundation to build from.

edzy

Thanks for the advice everyone.

NetworkingStudent wrote: »

I’m frustrated too.
I have an A.A.S degree and A+, Net+ and Security+. I have gotten 3 interviews and one volunteer gig from craigs list and maybe one interview from career builder. It is frustrating to keep looking and have a hard time finding something. Are you sending cover letters out? Are you using craigs list? I have had the best luck with craigs list. Here are the IT craig list posting sections in New York

new york city computer gigs classifieds - craigslist

new york city technical support jobs classifieds - craigslist

new york city systems/networking jobs classifieds - craigslist

new york city software/QA/DBA/etc jobs classifieds - craigslist

Watching this cheered up a little during my job search.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lboQbFTItSwkc
Good Luck..I hope this helps

I check these sites about 5 times a day along with careerbuilder, linkedin, idealist, indeed, dice, and a couple others.

I've tried best buy and staples, but i could never get past that personality test.

N2IT

Turgon wrote: »

I think one of the problems is you are punting for the same jobs as everyone else. There is nothing wrong with helpdesk and desktop support, in fact I would recommend everyone does a stint there, it's how I started. But there was a lot more hands on in those days and you could use your initiative more to define how things were done. Self starter was a more accurate description of the role back then, and with NT coming in followed by Y2K there was a hell of a lot of migration experience in the offing.

Vertical career path from helpdesk is increasingly difficult these days and with seemingly everyone heading to helpdesk for their first break the expectations of many hiring managers are unrealistic. The lack of investment in training people, in your case in VMWare, is a real problem today. The margins that operations works with are getting tighter and you can easily find yourself wanting the next job up the ladder which is held by someone who isn't going anywhere soon. By the time you get *close* there could be a merger and the Corporate IT policy requires the company to lay some of you off. Two IT departments usually means one thing..

So the above is a combination of things that if they come together could make helpdesk a cul de sac for your career. But it isn't always so. People still do it and get on.

I think with your experience in the PC shop you are better off hitting up the network and solutions providers across NYC. There must be thousands of these companies of all sizes. Get in with a company like that and Im sure they would not only value your experience but they would also offer you lots of room for growth. Helpdesk jobs are quite formalized these days which doesn't require a self starter. You are often told precisely what to do and how to work. Take the self starter approach to a company that wants it. Integrators, solutions shops, Resellers, Providers. Small, medium sized shops are just as good as larger ones, and sometime better.

Exactly

I couldn't agree more

Daniel333

Hey dude,

It’s rough. It is.
Help desks are heavily outsourced, couple that with a surplus IT workers it pretty easy for an employer to demand Exchange/AD/CCNA for a tier 1 spot now days. I know we do at my company. To top it off, there is an exodus of services into the "cloud" which is costing entry level jobs.

But not one person I know right now has their job from a job site. A few years ago 50% of your jobs were networking (social) now I believe it's more like 80%

Your leads are going to come from
1) Attending a Users groups (I was offered a job on the spot just last week, shitty but offered!) Linux Users group, Cisco and Microsoft. Do it, yesterday!
2) Church, helping out the little old lady/pastor whatever is a great way to meet people
3) Volunteer work at your local library or a school. Again meet people and build that resume. They have very flexible hours. Letter of recommendation are essential!
4) Blog/Podcast what you learn, build a marketable web presence. Don’t let them find your facebook, show them your blog and twitter accounts.
5) Enter through the side door, if you want to get into technology how about sell computers for Best buy for a while then transfer into Geek Squad. That's the professional foot in the door you might need. MEET PEOPLE. You don't want to work for Geek Squad in the long run. But I had at least 2-4 job offers in my Geek Squad days as people who owned small businesses came in for repairs.
6) Build your IT network, how many friends do you have in IT? Why can't you get leads from them? I just interviewed a guy today because a friend recommended him.
7) Get practical certs on your resume, as you probably have noticed Comptia certs are very theoretical. Cisco, Microsoft and Redhat certs are essential.
Work on your social skills, daily! there is always room to grow your ability to have a better smile, handshake or a joke. Again, this is most of the interview. Don't ever assume you are likable. How to Win Friends and Influence people is a great start. I would also read the Presentation Skills of Steve Jobs.
9) Craigslist, if you have a skill. Go sell it. Post your skills there pimp your brand. If you have the social and technical skills you can get by. And suddenly your resume reads a lot nicer too when you mentioned you ran your computer repair service.

Me: Took a job selling computers at Sears which got my foot in at Geek Squad and in turn got a help desk spot offered to me because of my “great customer service”
My boss: Got his first job fixing computers from his pastor for $5/hr working weekends. Eventually his name got out and he was making enough money to live off just on word of mouth business.
Coworker 1- Miltary training in desktop repair, left milary and went to Heald. After heald opened his owned company via Craigslist. Sold his client list for enough money to go to a CCNP Bootcamp and then got a job with us
Coworker 2- Miltary again, radar room. Used that time to get about 12 certs. Left military and his old CO offered him a job
Coworker 3- Self taught MCSE and CCNA. Really had the skills, no cheating! Came in to my boss and asked for 90 days prove himself.
Coworker 4 – temp worked, recent graduate from heald. One of 5 guys we brought in. Only one we kept. This guy billed us for 8 hours and worked 12. His performance was therefore 5x better. So we kept him.
Our senior networking guy – Craigslist, earned a cert, then pimped the skills until we took him on at $100k

The bottom line the hiring procedure that McDonalds uses doesn't work in IT anymore. You can't just find posting, drop off a resume, interview and get the job. It require serious objectivity of your own interpersonal skills with a bit of luck.

Cisco Inferno

edzy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice everyone.



I check these sites about 5 times a day along with careerbuilder, linkedin, idealist, indeed, dice, and a couple others.

I've tried best buy and staples, but i could never get passed that personality test.

im looking for something as well in nyc. freakin staples and best buy. i have no clue how half the retards in there ever got hired.

gcarroll357

Daniel333 wrote: »

Hey dude,


Your leads are going to come from
1) Attending a Users groups (I was offered a job on the spot just last week, shitty but offered!) Linux Users group, Cisco and Microsoft. Do it, yesterday!

Great advice Daniel, I am definitely going to look into this. My question is what are user groups and does any know how to find more about them, especially in your local area? Thanks

pert

It doesn't matter what the job requirements are if there is another person who applied with better credentials than you. Masters degree for a help desk required? No, but if you have no experience and there is a Master's graduate also applying then the requirements just went up. The field is a lot more competitive than before. The only thing people care about now is work experience. Degrees and certs are used as prerequisites, work experience is used to make the decision.

It's insanely difficult to get experience without experience. Be wary of old hands giving you advice on how to do this, their experience with how to do this is outdated and useless. Help desk now is not like what they did, and their advice is useless at best. You have to look for openings, find some angle to get you ahead of the competition, what that is usually differs. Finding job openings before they are posted is very difficult, but leads to the highest success rates. You have to ****, I don't mean cheating in the sense of doing something unethical, I mean cheating in as not playing the game according the to the "rules". Just applying to openings you find in the paper and job boards is not a game you are going to win. You have to find jobs that are not being posted to the general public and apply to those.

gosh1976

gcarroll357 wrote: »

Great advice Daniel, I am definitely going to look into this. My question is what are user groups and does any know how to find more about them, especially in your local area? Thanks

A user group is just a group with a related interest that get together to network and talk about that related interest whether it be php, .net, some linux flavor, some microsoft product, or some other product or technology. The focus might be narrow or wide. Just start with some obvious google searches like "user group" or "user group and your area" There are tons of resources out there here is one: Find a User Group

Just start doing some searches. If you are near a city you will find some user groups and hopefully they will be related to stuff you are interested in. Most of the ones in my area seem to be Linux or programming oriented.

You can look into professional organizations as well like IEEE and the ACM which have local chapters that may be good for networking and can be good resources even without a local chapter. There may also be local professional organizations that yo can joing that would provide opportunities for learning & networking.

Turgon

Helpdesk or helldesk isn't what it used to be. It can be hard enough just getting a job in helpdesk these days. It can be even harder getting out. The exposure there is useful because it's a leveller, but once you have enough game time in, do whatever you can to get out of there.

earweed

Post on Monster. It's how I got my current job and the recruiter called ME about the job before it was ever posted (It never got posted, actually)
You may also want to try Onforce as a way to get some experience and some $$$$.

Zartanasaurus

If you were at my job, help desk means claiming and forwarding all submitted work orders w/o contacting the customer and not even trying to figure out what the actual problem is. If it even vaguely mentions something that might be internet or network related, it's automatically forwarded to my bin, even if the problem is something help desk should fix like viruses or bad NICs.

AvidNetworker

Sounds like the people you have interviewed with are pretty unprofessional if they are actually giving you that kind of tone.

Anyway, it really is a crapshoot, don't get discouraged. I will say though unfortunately(or fortunately for some) that experience is valued much higher than education in IT, which is different than a lot of industries. For instance, in banking, it doesn't matter how long you have been a bank teller, you will never be the bank manager without a financial degree.

Let me give you my experience. To give a little backround, I have spent quite a few years in college, and am currently about 8 credits short of a degree, I just have bounced around from degree path to degree path over about a decade, and always would kind of get bored, and stop with school , and focus on work again. Anyway, I have zero degree, not an associates, not a bachelors. And while recently interviewing for jobs, from everything from a network engineer to a director of IT position, I have NEVER been asked about my education. It has never come up. Why? Because I have over a decade of IT experience, and that is all they really look at. What have I done, and what do I bring to the table.

How did I get my start with no degree? Well, I interviewed for a job that was essentially robot work. I would take files from a 3.5" disk that some field worker would send in, and load them onto a computer, and then upload them to the company mainframe. Really no experience or skills learned there. But when I interviewed, the director of the department asked my 18 year old self. Do you know how to fix modems? What he meant by that was, do you know how to make them dial out and not get errors. Yes I said, and I was hired.

In that job, I kept growing, to the point that I was flying across the country supporting hardware and networks of remote offices, purchasing new servers, designing databases, etc. I gained a TON of experience. Then after I had gone about as far as I could go, I parlayed that into a better paying job, and gained a ton more experience, and just kept going from there.

My point is, it is all about just getting that first shot. Don't worry so much about how you do it, and try to do it in ways others haven't thought of. Maybe a help desk is not the way for you. The bottom line is, have confidence, do your best, make people believe in you, and become "the go to guy". It will give you experience, skills, and relationships you will never build sitting in a classroom.

tbgree00

I have to second the advice to work your social network for all it's worth. Every worthwhile job I've ever had was because someone I knew had an in at the company. It's not fair and I may not have been the right person for those jobs at the time I was hired but it's reality.

The biggest things are to work on your confidence and don't be afraid to ask for help from someone. Set some low hanging fruit goals and accomplish them. I just started a diet again after some slow progress and had to set my first goal to "I won't eat chocolate today". Yes it's small and dumb but I felt good for accomplishing it. The next goal was easy too, "I will go on two walks this week". Now I'm back and going strong.

andrew09

Hey Edzy I totally get it. I'm in the same boat, frustrated that no one is giving me a break. I work helpdesk and desktop support at a college, they posted for 2 NAS server positions a few months back. They didn't even interview me because they wanted 6 - 7 years experience. They know me, I've been a model employee for 2 years now, have a degree and a boatload of certs... and the guys who are leaving are around for another month to train the new guys. Why not give the new guy a shot??

To make things worse, my contract is up a week from now and will be looking for employment again.

As hard as it is, it is essential to keep a good attitude, work on staying confident in your abilities and as others have suggested, work on social networking. Keep believing that if you do this, eventually you will get the break you deserve. Good luck!

NetworkingStudent

AvidNetworker wrote: »

Sounds like the people you have interviewed with are pretty unprofessional if they are actually giving you that kind of tone.

Anyway, it really is a crapshoot, don't get discouraged. I will say though unfortunately(or fortunately for some) that experience is valued much higher than education in IT, which is different than a lot of industries. For instance, in banking, it doesn't matter how long you have been a bank teller, you will never be the bank manager without a financial degree.

Let me give you my experience. To give a little backround, I have spent quite a few years in college, and am currently about 8 credits short of a degree, I just have bounced around from degree path to degree path over about a decade, and always would kind of get bored, and stop with school , and focus on work again. Anyway, I have zero degree, not an associates, not a bachelors. And while recently interviewing for jobs, from everything from a network engineer to a director of IT position, I have NEVER been asked about my education. It has never come up. Why? Because I have over a decade of IT experience, and that is all they really look at. What have I done, and what do I bring to the table.

How did I get my start with no degree? Well, I interviewed for a job that was essentially robot work. I would take files from a 3.5" disk that some field worker would send in, and load them onto a computer, and then upload them to the company mainframe. Really no experience or skills learned there. But when I interviewed, the director of the department asked my 18 year old self. Do you know how to fix modems? What he meant by that was, do you know how to make them dial out and not get errors. Yes I said, and I was hired.

In that job, I kept growing, to the point that I was flying across the country supporting hardware and networks of remote offices, purchasing new servers, designing databases, etc. I gained a TON of experience. Then after I had gone about as far as I could go, I parlayed that into a better paying job, and gained a ton more experience, and just kept going from there.

My point is, it is all about just getting that first shot. Don't worry so much about how you do it, and try to do it in ways others haven't thought of. Maybe a help desk is not the way for you. The bottom line is, have confidence, do your best, make people believe in you, and become "the go to guy". It will give you experience, skills, and relationships you will never build sitting in a classroom.

I really get the feeling breaking into IT boils down to someone willing to take a chance on you. IT isn’t like nursing, auto repair, dental field, ect ect…..In these fields part of your degree requires you to do clinicals and they require a certain amount of education. I wish we had these same standards in IT, or maybe something similar. I was never told anything about experience in college, or how much it matters in the IT market, I was only told this and learned about this by posting and viewing the TE Forms. Then again I went to a for profit college.

Since, graduating from college in December 2010; I have been on a few interviews and have applied for several help desk jobs. I keep getting the feeling that degrees and certifications are just used for some sort of checklist to weed out candidates. When you have recruiters telling you that everything looks great, but you just lack the experience you feel speechless, or at least that’s how I felt. In fact, the recruiter told me that I have more certifications than most job candidates he knows at his agency. He said I just need some experience.

Currently, I ‘m volunteering on Mondays at an organization in their IT department to keep myself busy, while I’m looking for an IT job. I have updated my resume with this information, but this feels like this isn’t enough. The last job I applied for was a help desk job and it sounded pretty entry level. However, after the interview I saw the job posted again on Craigs List and this time it asked for previous help desk experience. They raised the pay too…. I’m not sure how someone gets experience beyond volunteering. I’m just plugging away studying for my Windows 7 certification, working out, and staying busy in every way I can. I keep applying and hoping someone will give me a chance.

2E151

Above education, certifications, and experience, its who you know. Like the previous posters have said, you gotta network. At my current position you don't get hired unless someone here will vouch for you. Since I've been here the past two years all 7 people we've hired have been from internal referrals.


In the past I've referred people to different companies and had them tell me later that they completely bypassed HR and went directly to the Supervisor. I've also had had hiring managers that I referred people to tell me when they get referrals from reputable people they barely glance over resumes.


That's the way this industry works. To work in Networking you gotta network.

<anti-dumping rant>The reason for this is it's way too easy to **** any of the major certifications. What might take you a year to study and pass a CCNA, someone can memorize a test bank and some sim screenshots in a month. People can literally **** their way through CCNA, MCSE, and the whole spectrum of Comptia certs before you can even finish your first one.

Everyone knows this. The only certifications I personally believe are **** proof are the Red Hat certs, the hands on penetration certs, and the upper level certifications like CCIE and CISSIP (who I hear had the foresight to create a test bank in the thousands).

Microsoft, Comptia and Cisco basically pay lip-service to anti-dumping measures while gladly handing out certs to people who finish in 10 minutes with perfect scores. (Everyone's heard about instant retakes for those suspected of cheating, but has anyone ever heard of it being implemented) The writing has been on the walls for 15 years and if anything dumping has gotten worse. </anti-dumping rant>

After being burned by so many paper tigers in the past 15 years companies aren't as willing to take chances on new hires. My job certainly isn't, and I know there are hundreds if not thousands of jobs around the country like this. Employers want someone whose skills can be vouched for.