Did certifications mean more 10+ years ago?

N2IT

I have been in several different enterprised environments. One of the many things I have noticed is that people generally feel certs used to mean something, but now they don't.

The number 1 reason now is everybody has them. Number 2 is they are not as tough as they used to. Just the other days I had a guy mention that A+ meant something back in the day.

Thoughts?

Have certs truly jumped shark? Have they come to full depreciation and now are no longer a player in if someone gets hired?

Maybe it's somewhere inbetween. Get a few to get recognized, then forget the certification and just learn the technology. This is the one I am coming to believe. Get your A+ and whatever else you need to land your first job and then continue to grow. Leverage your experience into your next position. Not to say you shouldn't list your certs you previously have earned.

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

I have been in several different enterprised environments. One of the many things I have noticed is that people generally feel certs used to mean something, but now they don't.

The number 1 reason now is everybody has them. Number 2 is they are not as tough as they used to. Just the other days I had a guy mention that A+ meant something back in the day.

Thoughts?

Have certs truly jumped shark? Have they come to full depreciation and now are no longer a player in if someone gets hired?

Maybe it's somewhere inbetween. Get a few to get recognized, then forget the certification and just learn the technology. This is the one I am coming to believe. Get your A+ and whatever else you need to land your first job and then continue to grow. Leverage your experience into your next position. Not to say you shouldn't list your certs you previously have earned.

They were a vehicle to jobs and better paid jobs 10 years ago certainly. That isn't the case anymore. I would still say they are a factor though. From 1995 - 2002 there was enormous borrowing and investment in what has provided many of the jobs we have today. A lot of individuals and companies gambled on certification. Time has elapsed. I still think they have value though. Companies still ask for them and a certification track followed well at least provides a structured walkthrough of the capabilities of a product or technology, something that can be lacking in your day to day exposure on the job where you are learning on demand so to speak. Expertise you gain in the field if you are lucky. Depends on the exposure and resonsibilities you have at work.

Hypntick

Depends on your environment I would say. I just had an interview yesterday and asked what the expectations of the position are over a years time, I was told that increasing your certs is encouraged and provided for with training etc.. However I firmly believe that two equally skilled candidates can be set apart by the certs they may hold.

pakgeek

N2IT wrote: »

I have been in several different enterprised environments. One of the many things I have noticed is that people generally feel certs used to mean something, but now they don't.

The number 1 reason now is everybody has them. Number 2 is they are not as tough as they used to. Just the other days I had a guy mention that A+ meant something back in the day.

Thoughts?

Have certs truly jumped shark? Have they come to full depreciation and now are no longer a player in if someone gets hired?

Maybe it's somewhere inbetween. Get a few to get recognized, then forget the certification and just learn the technology. This is the one I am coming to believe. Get your A+ and whatever else you need to land your first job and then continue to grow. Leverage your experience into your next position. Not to say you shouldn't list your certs you previously have earned.

I agree that the value seems to be going down hill because the market is getting very saturated with certifications, and the value depends on the actual certification. For example, couple of years ago, its was nice to have a PMP or CISSP to do a PM or security job respectively, now its a MUST have... It totally depends on the area of specialty.

Comptia certification don't have much value because it is too broad and doesn't focus on a niche market.

eMeS

One of the issues is that many of the certification programs have been dumbed down to appeal to a broader market, and in the interest of expediently grading results.

For example, the PMP used to be 2 days of essay exams. Now it's just a really long, boring and simple multiple choice exam.

But, I would agree with the earlier statement...the value largely depends on the environment. For example, to deliver any amount of ITIL training, I have to be certified, however, if I just wanted to sell consulting, I do not necessarily need to hold any credential.

MS

galoryber

I've always noticed that the HR that's going to be hiring you only knows to look for a few certs. Mainly, I see them looking for A+, MCP, or MCSE.
Seems a little ridiculous to me, "Are you entry level, or engineer? somewhere in-between you say? No, I'm not sure that you're qualified"
Seems a little odd that they see the MSCE equal to the MCP.

I explain this to my non-tech friends as "You'll need reliable transportation to get to work, so will you be arriving on a tricycle, or a NASA rocket ship? You have a car?? No, I don't think that will work"

networker050184

Depends entirely on who's doing the hiring. I know some people require them and some don't care. I think its way too objective to make a sweeping statement.

brad-

I think the MS certs are somewhat watered down because there are so many technologies they test for now...and they've changed all of the acronyms. HR people, particularly established HR people, dont want to bother as much with learning all the different certifications - before it was just a few easy ones to remember. MCSA/E, MCDBA, MCP. Done. Now its MCTS:Active Directory, MCTS: Enterprise Desktop Admin 2k8

Im just delving into cisco, and I have to say that it isnt watered down at all. The volume of material just for CCENT is huge...ditto for CCNA. So I will say that if anything, by keeping its degree of difficulty high and not coming up with acronyms for every technology, they're still good in the cert world. Could you imagine a CC: DNS, CC: DHCP, CC:OSPF..thats kind of what MS has done and it sucks.

With that said, certs still set people apart from the standard applicant. Where I'm from, most people dont have any, or might have one or two. Its probably different in cluttered markets, but still they show a baseline of "this person can type and they're trainable" kind of thing. Similar to what a degree does, just without as much bargaining power and opportunity.

Hypntick

galoryber wrote: »

I explain this to my non-tech friends as "You'll need reliable transportation to get to work, so will you be arriving on a tricycle, or a NASA rocket ship? You have a car?? No, I don't think that will work"

That is outstanding. It sure seems that way sometimes doesn't it, no such thing as mid level experience apparently.

Webmaster

N2IT wrote:

Maybe it's somewhere in between. Get a few to get recognized, then forget the certification and just learn the technology.

In which case preparing for the certification (exam) is still great way to learn that technology and at the same time add a valuable item to your resume.

N2IT wrote:

I have been in several different enterprised environments. One of the many things I have noticed is that people generally feel certs used to mean something, but now they don't.

I worked at several large companies myself and it's usually the people who assume they will still be working in that same environment for many years or even till their retirement who downplay the role of certifications (in which case it can be justified). If you are a contractor or a temp, and will be putting yourself on the market in the near future, certifications are as meaningful as ever.

I think it also depends a lot on the person holding the cert, or studying for it. The meaning (value) of a certification is a largely determined by the time and effort you put in to it, i.o.w. by the holder, not just the beholder. They way you present the fact you're certified during an interview for example can add a lot of meaning.

Whether it's to advance or get into the industry, it's hard to go around certifications. It's about 10 years ago certification started changing into what they are now, for a real difference you'd have to go back a few years more. Back then you could get a sys admin job easily if you held an MCSE, but it was also easy to get into IT without 'any' certification, especially if you had a relevant traditional education/degree (though often "affinity with computers" was all it took). Certifications were a badge professionals got for showing they have more than just experience and for knowing how to do things the [fill in vendor here] way, not a replacement for (lack of) traditional education and experience. Many still treat certifications that way, and for some certs (e.g. CISSP) that's inevitable.

Still, I do not think the meaning of certifications in general has decreased over the past decade (despite the value of some individual certs having declined because their popularity and lack of quality control), just changed. They are more widely known in the industry, available (and wanted) for more different topics/areas, and a more important factor for HR when filtering resumes. 10 years ago there was a huge shortage in IT personnel, but in the competitive IT industry nowadays holding a certain IT cert can mean the difference between getting a job and being unemployed (or stuck at a help desk).