CCNP job level content outside of the scope of the exam

tanix

I wasn't completely sure as to where this would be best placed, so my apologies to the mods if it is better fit in the jobs section.

I have been working on the CCNP in an attempt to completely master the content at that level so that I will fully understand everything covered by those tests, yet I understand the material is not comprehensive in the sense that it will cover everything that an engineer will work with at that level in the field.

As I begin preparing for interviews and the like, I am interested to hear from those who currently work at that level in the field as to what other technologies you work with that would be considered important that is outside of the scope of what the CCNP exam covers. I am not asking for the "details" of each, simply throwing out a general technology or focus would be sufficient (though if you know of a good book you like, I would greatly appreciate a mention) so that I can begin to research and learn those additional technologies that my pursuits through these certifications might have missed.

networker050184

What kind of jobs are you going for? That would help us narrow down what other technologies to look out for. Off the top of my head though VPNs and QoS are big ones that I think anyone with a good CCNP level of knowledge should be familiar with.

chrisone

I would recommend brushing up on your Security topics. Many employers that higher "network engineers" typically at a minimum require you to build and troubleshoot VPN/IPSEC tunnels, ASA Firewalls, Layer 2 security. So along with your professional level of routing and switching, most of the time a job at that level does NOT only focus on routing and switching.

At that level you would also be required to know the basics of QOS and how VOIP telephony works. Also you would most definitely be required to know how to install and troubleshoot basic MPLS and BGP.

This was the problem with the new changes that were made to the CCNP. The old version (BSCI, BCMSN, ONT, ISCW) covered almost everything including Wireless. Now people are forced to go the route of individual tracks to cover separate technologies. I hope this helps, and good luck!

shodown

Depends on the environment. My last "CCNP job" was based on route/switch, Firewalls, and some VOIP. Focus hard on foundational topics. OSPF/BGP/EIGRP, and Spanning Tree, VLANS, ACL's and so on. If a person could answer the majority of these topics, would hire them even though they didn't know firewalls, VOIP and other stuff we did. Guys with Solid routing are hard to come by. I have dealt with a lot of static route warriors recently.

tanix

networker050184 wrote: »

What kind of jobs are you going for? That would help us narrow down what other technologies to look out for. Off the top of my head though VPNs and QoS are big ones that I think anyone with a good CCNP level of knowledge should be familiar with.

Kind of the problem for me. I haven't identified exactly as of yet and it will depend on what is available due to my circumstance. Since I do not have direct experience with that field exactly (mostly just surface level assists, collaboration, etc... in the IT field when I was a PC Tech and Application developer).

I know I am not likely to make a position into a CCNP level, but... my idea is that if I am extremely solid on the CCNP Exam topics, research heavily into the models of routers and switches (that I can't afford to hands on) concerning their designs, capabilities, issues, etc... AND am proficient or very familiar with topics outside of the range (such as you mentioned and maybe other areas such as SANs, DNS, Linux, etc..) I should at the least be able to show enough competency and ability to walk into a JR role somewhere by displaying my ability and knowledge in the interviews.

I know my question is rather general, but I guess that is the type of answer I am looking for. Basically, just various general concepts to which are common in the field, yet not focused on in any depth on the exams.

I think you answered some for me though, thank you.

tanix

shodown wrote: »

Depends on the environment. My last "CCNP job" was based on route/switch, Firewalls, and some VOIP. Focus hard on foundational topics. OSPF/BGP/EIGRP, and Spanning Tree, VLANS, ACL's and so on. If a person could answer the majority of these topics, would hire them even though they didn't know firewalls, VOIP and other stuff we did. Guys with Solid routing are hard to come by. I have dealt with a lot of static route warriors recently.

Ok, I was wondering how much consideration would be given to the core topics, thank you. I spent a lot of extra time on the CCNP core stuff because I wasn't happy with just being able to answer a test question or regurgitate some lab scenario. I wanted to understand how the protocols worked in extreme depth (and I bored my wife to tears teaching her to be able to check my understanding) so I could use that as a base to solve any problem or understand anything that dealt with them as well as picking the right tool for the right job.

My big hurdle is going to be convincing an employer that while I may have no direct experience in the field, that I have a solid understanding of the core to which will allow me to pick up and progress in a short time and at a fast pace. My hope is that interviews are grueling so I can really shine out in them. That is why I also wanted to start reading on side topics of tech not commonly covered in the course material. I want to be more than a guy that simply passed a test.

shodown

I wish I could help you more. I interview one way, and some guys here interview another way. A lot of people expect a guy to come in and know everything like a senior 15+ year vet even though they are looking for a JR engineer(I've sat in on a few of these). I would apply for any network engineer position you see that your interested in. A lot of doors are prob going to be shut if you don't have the experience with a CCNP, but since you have your CCNA go in there and explain the material at a CCNP level and keep the CCNP off your resume might yield better results. Stay there for a while, then use your CCNP and the knowledge you gained for your next job.

tanix

chrisone wrote: »

I would recommend brushing up on your Security topics. Many employers that higher "network engineers" typically at a minimum require you to build and troubleshoot VPN/IPSEC tunnels, ASA Firewalls, Layer 2 security. So along with your professional level of routing and switching, most of the time a job at that level does NOT only focus on routing and switching.

Yeah, that does seem to be a common one on the job postings out there. I did my Security+ a while back and while it was more of a general approach, it did help a bit with some of the security concepts that came up in the CCNA/CCNP material which made them much easier to grasp, but I do wish to go further in depth in those areas.

chrisone wrote: »

At that level you would also be required to know the basics of QOS and how VOIP telephony works. Also you would most definitely be required to know how to install and troubleshoot basic MPLS and BGP.

VOIP is something I am very weak on. I know a bit from my studies and messed around with some of the basics of it in Dynamips, but that is where it ends mostly. I am a bit disappointed about QoS with the CCNP, it goes nowhere near into the depth that I was hoping, guess that will be another book I need to pick up. I was also wondering about L2 and L3 MPLS, It is covered at a surface conceptual level in the exams, but I would love to focus more on the ISP side of things concerning its design and function.

Would you say BGP is covered pretty well by the foundations book or should I be looking into a more detailed understanding to be able to meet the needs of a practical environment? Meaning, would the level of the CCNP's knowledge be sufficient to plan and implement BGP in a production network with minor reference for extended concepts?

chrisone wrote: »

This was the problem with the new changes that were made to the CCNP. The old version (BSCI, BCMSN, ONT, ISCW) covered almost everything including Wireless. Now people are forced to go the route of individual tracks to cover separate technologies. I hope this helps, and good luck!

I noticed that and it is a bit of a let down as I am pretty **** about wanting to know the details of everything *chuckle* The issue now is figuring out where to go after the CCNP. Part I am sure will be dependent on what role I step into, but there is so much I want to learn and so many directions to take. Heck, and I still need to polish off my last two MCSE tests.

One last thing, how much knowledge of outside technologies do you need to have such as various application servers, databases, etc...? I would assume that there is some required knowledge of other systems to be able to choose the proper means of managing the network. Well, that is at least what the Cisco seems to suggest with its focus on the various life cycle models.

tanix

shodown wrote: »

I wish I could help you more. I interview one way, and some guys here interview another way. A lot of people expect a guy to come in and know everything like a senior 15+ year vet even though they are looking for a JR engineer(I've sat in on a few of these). I would apply for any network engineer position you see that your interested in. A lot of doors are prob going to be shut if you don't have the experience with a CCNP, but since you have your CCNA go in there and explain the material at a CCNP level and keep the CCNP off your resume might yield better results. Stay there for a while, then use your CCNP and the knowledge you gained for your next job.

Thanks much, I know that it will be a bit daunting and I will likely be turned down quite a bit, but I am ready for that. As long as I can answer their questions properly, show my competency of the material and ability to work under pressure, then their decision will be something out of my control and that I can live with.

I was contemplating the aspect of not putting the CCNP down and walking into an interview using the CCNP knowledge to excel in getting a CCNA level position. Honestly, while I would love to find a place that is willing to start me off at a Jr level with CCNP work, I would be thrilled with a CCNA level to which I could either work my way up fast, or as you said, open up an opportunity with the experience and having a CCNP somewhere else. Hopefully, that might give me a chance to also focus heavily on the CCIE content while I am working and increase my chances for getting deeper into the field.

Thanks again, your comments are much appreciated!

chrisone

tanix wrote: »

VOIP is something I am very weak on. I know a bit from my studies and messed around with some of the basics of it in Dynamips, but that is where it ends mostly. I am a bit disappointed about QoS with the CCNP, it goes nowhere near into the depth that I was hoping, guess that will be another book I need to pick up. I was also wondering about L2 and L3 MPLS, It is covered at a surface conceptual level in the exams, but I would love to focus more on the ISP side of things concerning its design and function.

Would you say BGP is covered pretty well by the foundations book or should I be looking into a more detailed understanding to be able to meet the needs of a practical environment? Meaning, would the level of the CCNP's knowledge be sufficient to plan and implement BGP in a production network with minor reference for extended concepts?

I stand corrected , i forgot that the CCNP actually covers the basics of BGP and MPLS. As for the ISP side of things , that would lead you into the CCNP SP track in order to cover that area of expertise. As for this case here, you should be fine with what is covered in the CCNP. My fault, i forgot the CCNP covers the basics of BGP and MPLS. You should be fine with that you have here.

The voip part you dont need to know how to configure a call manager, just know how VOIP technology works, how to support a network with voice running on it "converged network," how codecs work, how to calculate the required bandwidth, how to setup the L2 part of things. If your company runs QOS you will have to know the basics of QOS and more importantly how the QOS is setup on your network.

tanix

chrisone wrote: »

I stand corrected , i forgot that the CCNP actually covers the basics of BGP and MPLS. As for the ISP side of things , that would lead you into the CCNP SP track in order to cover that area of expertise. As for this case here, you should be fine with what is covered in the CCNP. My fault, i forgot the CCNP covers the basics of BGP and MPLS. You should be fine with that you have here.

No worries. BGP is covered pretty well, I can still see there is a lot of depth missing, but it does a good job (at least in the foundations book) of explaining the intricacies of its route selection process (with more focus on the first 4 -5 steps) as well as filtering and interaction with IGP's. Unless I am missing something, it appears that the CCNP level of material would prepare someone fairly well in managing some enterprise level BGP configurations internally as well as setting up and managing the ISP transition areas, but it doesn't go into much detail concerning ISP setups, which makes sense I guess.

The MPLS content might as well be non-existent. Don't get me wrong, it covers the very, and I stress "very" basic concept of L2 and L3 designs, but the level of knowledge obtained is what I would consider impractical to establish as "knowing" when walking into a production environment as while there are some configuration examples and the basis for site to site function and design, it really doesn't go into it much more, for example as it does with Frame Relay. I want to go into a lot more detail of it, but time and bulk of topics is an issue as well as if this knowledge is common in average production environments.

chrisone wrote: »

The voip part you dont need to know how to configure a call manager, just know how VOIP technology works, how to support a network with voice running on it "converged network," how codecs work, how to calculate the required bandwidth, how to setup the L2 part of things. If your company runs QOS you will have to know the basics of QOS and more importantly how the QOS is setup on your network.

Ok, well I guess I am fairly well on task with VOIP then, though maybe I will pick up the CCNA Voice book and slam through it just to solidify the basics and broaden my surface level knowledge.

I think I will need more work on QoS, I haven't reached that level where... you know it just feels like "home" so to speak. I think I will pick up a book dedicated to it and read it for dun in the off times to strengthen the concepts with it.

Anyway, thank you for the suggestions and info. Much appreciated!