Is this worth it for me? (Kind of long)

boxvic

So a little back story: several years ago I went through the CISCO Academy at the end of high school and entered the local community college as an IT Network Administration major. Then I decided to head off to a university to study Criminal Justice… yeah complete 180 I know, and it was a mistake. I eventually came home, got my Associate of the Arts degree, and started working as a part-time Computer Operator on an AS/400 system.

I went back to school in 09 and just finished in December with an A.A.S. in Electronics Engineering Technology. It seemed like an interesting degree, and I liked the idea of working with electronics, but unfortunately there just aren’t many jobs open to this degree. The school I went to separates the Engineering Technology degree into Electronics and Industrial Maintenance. I skipped all of the Industrial electives and substituted my old CISCO and IT classes for the electives and took a Computer Hardware Maintenance class to meet the Electronics degree requirements. It was the fastest way to graduate, and I kind of figured it would be a useful degree for getting a job in structured cabling. So far, the few low-voltage cable firms I’ve talked to want people with more computer, phone, and VoIP experience. Because I didn’t take any of the industrial classes (outside of a PLC class) my chances at landing work in plant maintenance are so-so. I’ve been looking for fulltime work since December with no luck.

Anyway, onto my actual quandary; would getting my Network+ (and possibly A+) certificate make me a viable candidate for an IT job with an A.A.S. in Electronics Engineering Technology? Most of my classes that went towards the degree were actually old computer classes, but to the outside observer just looking at the degree it doesn’t look all that relevant to the IT industry. My assumption is that having certifications would prove I know the information and have the skills; but as expensive as the CompTIA certs are to maintain now I don’t want to spend that kind of money if it’s a futile cause.

I’m currently reading Meyer’s N+ book, and if it’s not worth getting the certification then oh well, I’ll have read a pretty good tech book. I am a nerd after all. I need some advice.


Thanks to everyone who waded through all of this, and mucho thanks to those who actually have some input.

Hypntick

Well you do know you'll start at the bottom more than likely doing help desk right? If you know that, A+ and Net+ along with Security+ will help you land that type of role. That's to get your foot in the door at least and get a paycheck headed your way. After a while 1.5 - 2 years you can try and work your way into other things based on your interests.

Some folks will suggest CCNA or the MS certs right off but for entry level work, which is more than likely what you'll end up doing they won't change your pay or chances of getting those types of jobs really. I may be wrong on that but that's just what i've seen. Besides, if you find a decent place of employment, you can have those paid for in full.

Just my 2 cents.

NOC-Ninja

boxvic wrote: »

So a little back story: several years ago I went through the CISCO Academy at the end of high school and entered the local community college as an IT Network Administration major. Then I decided to head off to a university to study Criminal Justice… yeah complete 180 I know, and it was a mistake. I eventually came home, got my Associate of the Arts degree, and started working as a part-time Computer Operator on an AS/400 system.

I went back to school in 09 and just finished in December with an A.A.S. in Electronics Engineering Technology. It seemed like an interesting degree, and I liked the idea of working with electronics, but unfortunately there just aren’t many jobs open to this degree. The school I went to separates the Engineering Technology degree into Electronics and Industrial Maintenance. I skipped all of the Industrial electives and substituted my old CISCO and IT classes for the electives and took a Computer Hardware Maintenance class to meet the Electronics degree requirements. It was the fastest way to graduate, and I kind of figured it would be a useful degree for getting a job in structured cabling. So far, the few low-voltage cable firms I’ve talked to want people with more computer, phone, and VoIP experience. Because I didn’t take any of the industrial classes (outside of a PLC class) my chances at landing work in plant maintenance are so-so. I’ve been looking for fulltime work since December with no luck.

Anyway, onto my actual quandary; would getting my Network+ (and possibly A+) certificate make me a viable candidate for an IT job with an A.A.S. in Electronics Engineering Technology? Most of my classes that went towards the degree were actually old computer classes, but to the outside observer just looking at the degree it doesn’t look all that relevant to the IT industry. My assumption is that having certifications would prove I know the information and have the skills; but as expensive as the CompTIA certs are to maintain now I don’t want to spend that kind of money if it’s a futile cause.

I’m currently reading Meyer’s N+ book, and if it’s not worth getting the certification then oh well, I’ll have read a pretty good tech book. I am a nerd after all. I need some advice.


Thanks to everyone who waded through all of this, and mucho thanks to those who actually have some input.

Spend your money on CCNA.

Repo Man

Hypntick wrote: »

Some folks will suggest CCNA or the MS certs right off but for entry level work, which is more than likely what you'll end up doing they won't change your pay or chances of getting those types of jobs really. I may be wrong on that but that's just what i've seen. Besides, if you find a decent place of employment, you can have those paid for in full.

I disagree. Jobs that prefer Cisco/MS certs generally pay much better where I live.

My opinion is I think you could get a job right now with that degree. If you are able to get one I'd skip the Comptia exams altogether and start down the MS/Cisco track. If you have issues finding one get your A+. I'd suggest reading up on the Network+ and Security material but the ROI on them without being lifetime now is not worth it IMO.

boxvic

Repo Man wrote: »

I disagree. Jobs that prefer Cisco/MS certs generally pay much better where I live.

My opinion is I think you could get a job right now with that degree. If you are able to get one I'd skip the Comptia exams altogether and start down the MS/Cisco track. If you have issues finding one get your A+. I'd suggest reading up on the Network+ and Security material but the ROI on them without being lifetime now is not worth it IMO.

That is my biggest worry. It is a big upfront price, then yearly... it adds up pretty fast.

I didn't actually expect someone to think I could land a job with just my degree. I guess the next step on top of that would be to find the openings, which aren't always abundant in this area.

mikej412

You can get the CompTIA certs to help get that entry level job -- and then let them expire when you hopefully don't need them anymore.

The A+ and your Electronics Tech A.A.S. could get you some PC repair gig or PC staging/build job.

Toss in something like the old MS Deskside Support Cert (it's probably updated to an MCTS thing now) and you've got a shot at a job where you're not tethered to a phone.

If you liked the Cisco Academy courses you took, you should probably get the CCNA. As an alumni of the Cisco Academy (sign up if you haven't already) you have access to the current online study material and labs and packet tracer on the Cisco Network Academy website.

boxvic

mikej412 wrote: »

You can get the CompTIA certs to help get that entry level job -- and then let them expire when you hopefully don't need them anymore.

The A+ and your Electronics Tech A.A.S. could get you some PC repair gig or PC staging/build job.

Toss in something like the old MS Deskside Support Cert (it's probably updated to an MCTS thing now) and you've got a shot at a job where you're not tethered to a phone.

If you liked the Cisco Academy courses you took, you should probably get the CCNA. As an alumni of the Cisco Academy (sign up if you haven't already) you have access to the current online study material and labs and packet tracer on the Cisco Network Academy website.

It has been about 8 years since I graduated from the CISCO Academy, so I don't even know if I'm considered an alumni in their current system. I am registered with the main CISCO site, but I can't figure out how to register as an academy alumni. I think I need my old academy info, and I have no clue what it is/was.

boxvic

Holy cow... it is a good thing I still remembered the pass word for that old AOL account. I have full access to CISCO curriculum... that is awesome.

over9000

I disagree. Jobs that prefer Cisco/MS certs generally pay much better where I live.

My opinion is I think you could get a job right now with that degree. If you are able to get one I'd skip the Comptia exams altogether and start down the MS/Cisco track. If you have issues finding one get your A+. I'd suggest reading up on the Network+ and Security material but the ROI on them without being lifetime now is not worth it IMO.

I second this. Where I live, I have A+,Net+, and Security+, but every job I've been getting interviews for asks specific MS stuff on top of that, which won't be covered by the CompTIA certs (I'm starting to find that out). I do admit I've gotten a lot more calls with all 3 certs, but you need the MS certs too to really start getting the jobs you want.

Just get A+, which you have to have for any calls at all, and focus on Cisco/MS certs more. (MCDST for a good grasp of XP and Windows 7 to start, every interview I've gotten so far asks for this now). After you've got your foot in the door, if your employer wants you get your Net+/Sec+ then get them or read net+ for an intro to CCNA.

rogue2shadow

boxvic wrote: »

So a little back story: several years ago I went through the CISCO Academy at the end of high school and entered the local community college as an IT Network Administration major. Then I decided to head off to a university to study Criminal Justice… yeah complete 180 I know, and it was a mistake. I eventually came home, got my Associate of the Arts degree, and started working as a part-time Computer Operator on an AS/400 system.

Off topic (CCJS): I read the bold and it struck me hard. The reason I bring this up is I don't want people to read that and think that being a Criminal Justice major will only lead to a road of failure in the realm of IT. Criminal Justice easily segways into Cybersecurity and Information Assurance with a decent background in computing (forensics, policy, etc for the most part rely on laws and regulations).

I currently hold a Criminology and Criminal Justice degree and am living proof that it will not hinder your career in the IT world. At first, did I get the occasional "what the hell are you doing in IT?"; of course, but after a while, experience diluted that questioning. A couple years later, I'm a network security professional.

The message here is that your proven experience will be that benchmark; sell your package the right way and its make the world of difference.

On topic: The above users have given some great advice. Its a matter of getting your foot in the door, building yourself up, and proving yourself to be even more viable in the market to come. The A+ is a great start for bench work and helpdesk and from there its up to you to steer your career towards the desired path. I'm partial to the CCNA because you'll gain N+ knowledge and beyond through the CCENT (CCNA Part 1 assuming 2 exam approach) and configuration through the ICND2 (CCNA Part 2) examination. The fact that you are an alumni of the Cisco Networking Academy is great as a lot of the info is rooted in you and you just need to pull it back out. If you find yourself dwelling into MS technologies, the Win7 and MCITP:EA/SA tracks may be where you want to start. Security+ is still in the entry spectrum of certs but serves as a great foundation into security if you find that to be your liking. From an ROI standpoint, the S+ has a lot more applications (DoD IAT II, IAM I) if you find yourself going the government route.

boxvic

rogue2shadow wrote: »

Off topic (CCJS): I read the bold and it struck me hard. The reason I bring this up is I don't want people to read that and think that being a Criminal Justice major will only lead to a road of failure in the realm of IT. Criminal Justice easily segways into Cybersecurity and Information Assurance with a decent background in computing (forensics, policy, etc for the most part rely on laws and regulations).

I currently hold a Criminology and Criminal Justice degree and am living proof that it will not hinder your career in the IT world. At first, did I get the occasional "what the hell are you doing in IT?"; of course, but after a while, experience diluted that questioning. A couple years later, I'm a network security professional.

The message here is that your proven experience will be that benchmark; sell your package the right way and its make the world of difference.

Yeah, sorry about that, I should have made my statement more specific to me. It was a mistake for me to study Criminal Justice. I went in with the goal of being a sheriff's deputy or state trooper. After a year and a half and meeting with cops at career fairs I realized I don't have the personality for it. I'm not confrontational enough. I don't have the type of personality that lets me just walk up to someone doing something wrong and order them to stop.

So instead of finishing the degree I quit half-way through; which was another side of the mistake.

kiki162

I don't think getting your N+ and A+ is going to be a waste for you, in fact it's a great stepping stone. The bigger question is where do you want to go, and what do you want to do.


Regardless of where you start, you are going to have to start at the bottom like everyone else, and I think having your EE degree will only help you. I've always been told that you never stop learning, and learning as much as you can across every aspect of IT, like Cisco, or MS, or IT Security.

If I were you, I'd get those 2 certs and get yourself some routers or network sims like GNS to start playing with. You will be "well armed" going into any interview having those certs under your belt.

rogue2shadow

boxvic wrote: »

Yeah, sorry about that, I should have made my statement more specific to me. It was a mistake for me to study Criminal Justice. I went in with the goal of being a sheriff's deputy or state trooper. After a year and a half and meeting with cops at career fairs I realized I don't have the personality for it. I'm not confrontational enough. I don't have the type of personality that lets me just walk up to someone doing something wrong and order them to stop.

So instead of finishing the degree I quit half-way through; which was another side of the mistake.

No problem .

kiki162 wrote: »

I don't think getting your N+ and A+ is going to be a waste for you, in fact it's a great stepping stone. The bigger question is where do you want to go, and what do you want to do.


Regardless of where you start, you are going to have to start at the bottom like everyone else, and I think having your EE degree will only help you. I've always been told that you never stop learning, and learning as much as you can across every aspect of IT, like Cisco, or MS, or IT Security.

If I were you, I'd get those 2 certs and get yourself some routers or network sims like GNS to start playing with. You will be "well armed" going into any interview having those certs under your belt.

The EE definitely helps out. I agree with the A+, Net+ bit. If you're going for vendor certs in networking though, very quickly you'll find your CCNA easily outweighs your Net+ from an ROI standpoint (unless the company hates or wants nothing to do with Cisco). In terms of the material, the scope of the exam is pretty broad for N+, but the knowledge from studying for just about any cert is priceless.

pert

Cisco certs are only worth money if you can get a networking job. Getting a networking job with no networking experience, a CCNA, and a Associates degree is absolutely unrealistic. There is no reason to hire someone like that when they can get someone with all that, a 4 year degree, and multiple years of experience. CompTIA/MS Certs will help you get to Help Desk and Desktop Support, after a couple years experience you can try moving up higher, but the transition from Desktop to Server, DB, Networking, etc is difficult at best.

Cisco certs are also weird in that they are entirely worthless if you don't get to do any networking at your job.

xenodamus

pert wrote: »

Cisco certs are also weird in that they are entirely worthless if you don't get to do any networking at your job.

I'd have to disagree. For me, the CCNA is proof of my networking knowledge. I may not configure routers and switches, but the concepts I learned getting my CCNA are just as valuable when I'm building servers or virtual machines. The Cisco-specific knowledge you get from the CCNA is only one side of the coin. There's a lot of general networking in the CCNA curriculum that's important for every System Admin.

MickQ

If you went with the EE side of your degee, would you not stick with that and possibly look at moving into SCADA and other control systems? The PLC experience will help quite a bit there.

boxvic

MickQ wrote: »

If you went with the EE side of your degee, would you not stick with that and possibly look at moving into SCADA and other control systems? The PLC experience will help quite a bit there.

Well, I looked into it, but I don't know any of the analog high voltage control schemes. I tested for a job as an Industrial Automation Technician a few months ago and failed by about 8 questions. It was roughly 40% basic circuits (Ohm's law and the such) 40% motor controls/motor wiring/480 three-phase wiring and 20% PLC info. I bombed on the industrial electricity stuff. I don't think anyone around here has a totally digital control system; they still have a lot relays and the such.

I mean I'm probably more familiar with that sort of stuff than someone who has never had a circuits or devices class, but I know more about setting up a LAN than I do hard wiring a motor.

boxvic

Hmm... I just found out that the university I studied Criminal Justice at offers a complete online Telecommunications Systems Management degree. It is a 2+2 program with the state community and technical college system though, so you have to have an AS or AAS in Information Technology to be enrolled. I also found out that the community college system offers a completely online AAS in IT: Network Administration.

I'm tempted to try that, especially if I can find a decent intermediary job in the meantime to pay the bills. The only problem is having the get the AAS first; that would mean I would have an AAS in Engineering Technology, and AAS in Information Technology... and if I got the TSM degree also a BS in TSM. At a certain point that it is just too many degrees.