To CCIE or not CCIE

ipSpace

Hi Guys,

I have some questions and i wanted to know some opinions.
I am working for a NOC, but i do not really do a lot of routing(i only do some switch, and some firewall configuration). Since i do not do routing, i do not have a lot of experience it routing so i have some questions:
1. Should i move to a better position in another company that does routing too ?
I am asking you this, because at my current job i have some free time to learn more CCIE material, but in the other position/job i will mostly do GPON/ADSL/ADSL+ etc. That means that i would not have a lot of time to learn for my CCIE, since i have to learn a lot and mostly study for other topics.

I have to take in consideration the following:
1. New tehnologies
2. Not that stable, since i am new, i will not have a reputation
3. Maybe better salary
4. Not a lot of time to study for my CCIE.


So bottom line is:

Should i go for the new job that mostly handles ADSL/GPON/VDSL etc or stay at the current job and learn by myself the CCIE topics(and connect to my home-lab) ?

What would you do in my postion?(please take in consideration, that by chaning my job, i need a lot of time to accomodate and to my job good)

Chris_

I'm in the same boat as you. Working in a NOC, without the daily exposure to enough technologies needed for CCIE - the study time is invaluable though, I'm racing through the CCNP and that would be impossible without the quiet nightshifts .
I actually took a huge pay and status cut to this job as my previous role was senior implementor but was a mixed bag of windows, telecoms, cisco and the companies own proprietary product. So I wanted to move to a purely networking role. It's low level, but it is constant exposure. I'm going to stick with it as the company is a massive player, has their own MPLS core and actively promotes learning.
I'm doing a lot of adsl at the moment and there's not really a lot to learn about it, so I'm going to stick at it and move on to the big stuff soon I hope!
CCNP and CCIP by the end of the year is my goal, then my CCIE journey can begin, if it hasn't already - anyway my point is that the study time is invaluable, I think you need to weigh up just how valuable it is against you family/social life etc.
Good luck whatever you choose.

Turgon

inSecure.ro wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I have some questions and i wanted to know some opinions.
I am working for a NOC, but i do not really do a lot of routing(i only do some switch, and some firewall configuration). Since i do not do routing, i do not have a lot of experience it routing so i have some questions:
1. Should i move to a better position in another company that does routing too ?
I am asking you this, because at my current job i have some free time to learn more CCIE material, but in the other position/job i will mostly do GPON/ADSL/ADSL+ etc. That means that i would not have a lot of time to learn for my CCIE, since i have to learn a lot and mostly study for other topics.

I have to take in consideration the following:
1. New tehnologies
2. Not that stable, since i am new, i will not have a reputation
3. Maybe better salary
4. Not a lot of time to study for my CCIE.


So bottom line is:

Should i go for the new job that mostly handles ADSL/GPON/VDSL etc or stay at the current job and learn by myself the CCIE topics(and connect to my home-lab) ?

What would you do in my postion?(please take in consideration, that by chaning my job, i need a lot of time to accomodate and to my job good)

Stay where you are and use that valuable study time. Nice avatar btw.

ipSpace

Turgon wrote: »

Stay where you are and use that valuable study time. Nice avatar btw.

Turgon can you please elaborate? Why do you think this is better?(i will probably take your advice on staying on my current job)

How will it appear to be a CCIE without any real world routing experience?(i really believe that this is good..to get CCIE 1st then experience)

P.S.:You have a nice avatar too If that is you, maybe when i am in UK we can go for Starbucks coffee (just kidding )

reaper81

CCIE without experience is possible but don't expect senior positions and a high salary without the experience. Some companies might think that it's a good way of getting a CCIE on the cheap while many companies will throw your resume away. So yes, it can be done but it is no highway to success, you need to put in a real effort and try to get experience also.

Forsaken_GA

Personally, I would probably move. I've played with GPON's before, and find them to be pretty fun technology. The DSL is not quite as fun. I worked on on GPON's for a municpal cable provider that was using GPON to deliver triple play packages via fiber to the home as a contract job (they had a few issues they couldn't solve in house), and there was plenty of routing and switching elements involved for those guys. If they weren't 1100 miles away, I think I probably could have talked them into offering me a full time job (their entire network was configured by a CCNA with a book... there was alot of work to be done to clean it all up).

So, the one job will give you plenty of time to study, the other will give you hands on experience in real world deployment and maintenance/troubleshooting.

Neither is a bad choice, but I tend to go for experience builders whenever possible.

Ryan82

Experience is always preferred. Go for a job that will get you exposure to the technologies. There is a lot to learn that you just won't find in a textbook. Things like interoperability between protocols and vendors, etc will not be learned out of book. Granted you will not have as much time to study on the works dime, so you have to study in your free time if you want to get ahead.

ipSpace

Thank you for the quick replies. I will take everything into considerations, and let you guys know what happened. First will be to get the job offer.

I will not espect a higher salary with CCIE, but it will get me ahead. A new job will mean another 6-12 months of delay to my CCIE studying.

mikej412

inSecure.ro wrote: »

A new job will mean another 6-12 months of delay to my CCIE studying.

If you've got the skills, try getting a job with a Cisco Business Partner.

You'd hopefully get experience with a number of different customer environments. You'd probably have access to a lab and time to study during your down time. You'd probably get access to the Cisco Partner eLearning. And you'd probably get a better salary since you'd be generating revenue.

Oh, and they'd probably want you to get your CCIE within the year.

ipSpace

mikej412 wrote: »

If you've got the skills, try getting a job with a Cisco Business Partner.

You'd hopefully get experience with a number of different customer environments. You'd probably have access to a lab and time to study during your down time. You'd probably get access to the Cisco Partner eLearning. And you'd probably get a better salary since you'd be generating revenue.

Oh, and they'd probably want you to get your CCIE within the year.

I was thinking kinda the same thing.
I was thinking like studying for about 6-8 months to get my CCIE written, and send my CV to all of the Cisco Business Partners, to get a deal so that they will help me with time/money/labs to get my CCIE.

Thx again for all the good replies.

mikej412

inSecure.ro wrote: »

6-8 months to get my CCIE written

You can also count it as preparation for a Business Partner Job Interview.

Take a look at the Cisco Business Partner locator on the Cisco web site and make sure you do have some in your area.

Turgon

mikej412 wrote: »

If you've got the skills, try getting a job with a Cisco Business Partner.

You'd hopefully get experience with a number of different customer environments. You'd probably have access to a lab and time to study during your down time. You'd probably get access to the Cisco Partner eLearning. And you'd probably get a better salary since you'd be generating revenue.

Oh, and they'd probably want you to get your CCIE within the year.

I think it really depends Mike. They will want a CCIE within a year but the downtime on workstime to disappear into lab prep 9 -5 on the company dollar has really reduced today. The problem is there was a culture of people hanging out on full pay spending large chunks of their working time in the office doing nothing but lab prep. That still goes on today but not at all to the extent it used to. The problem is the hangover. Internally people will still expect people to nuke the CCIE inside 18 months regardless of how busy they are 9 - 5 making good on customer promises. Companies have a lot of promises to keep and if you are effective at making that happen dont expect a lot of slacktime to hit the labbooks!

ipSpace

Ok. So i went the interview. You won't believe what happened.

I got an arogant guy, he thought he was the best networking guy. After some discussions, he thought i was inveting stuff. ) Seriously.
Some examples:
He asked me the OSPF area types, i said TNSSA, and he laught and said it doesn't exists. (even if i was wrong, you don't laugh..anyway)
He said that only 7 LSA exists, i told him that there are more. He again didn't believe me.
I have some more examples, but.. there is no reason for me to continue.

It was a good experience .


Anyway. Thanks for all the replies, i will not move.

Have a great day!

Turgon

inSecure.ro wrote: »

Ok. So i went the interview. You won't believe what happened.

I got an arogant guy, he thought he was the best networking guy. After some discussions, he thought i was inveting stuff. ) Seriously.
Some examples:
He asked me the OSPF area types, i said TNSSA, and he laught and said it doesn't exists. (even if i was wrong, you don't laugh..anyway)
He said that only 7 LSA exists, i told him that there are more. He again didn't believe me.
I have some more examples, but.. there is no reason for me to continue.

It was a good experience .


Anyway. Thanks for all the replies, i will not move.

Have a great day!

If by TNSSA you mean totally not so stubby area then yes it does exist and there are more than 7 LSA types. Cisco dont support all of them.

One of the important characteristics of a 'really good networking guy' is the appreciation that you do not know everything, and that just because you don't know that doesn't mean something doesn't exist. You have avoided working for a dork. Back to work now, as there are still many things I have to learn and don't know..yet

ipSpace

Turgon wrote: »

If by TNSSA you mean totally not so stubby area then yes it does exist and there are more than 7 LSA types. Cisco dont support all of them.

One of the important characteristics of a 'really good networking guy' is the appreciation that you do not know everything, and that just because you don't know that doesn't mean something doesn't exist. You have avoided working for a dork. Back to work now, as there are still many things I have to learn and don't know..yet

Yea, you are right, avoided some stuff . Good luck with your work..and hope to see your post with # and 5 digits after really soon

Turgon

inSecure.ro wrote: »

Yea, you are right, avoided some stuff . Good luck with your work..and hope to see your post with # and 5 digits after really soon

Happy New Year. How are your studies going?

ipSpace

Hi Turgon,

Well not that good. I got my lab almost ready i still need an UPS and some adaptors(PCI to USB) and a PCI card with 6 usb slots.
Do not have the money yet for a good Smart-APC ups, but i am saving for it.

I did not have time to start for the CCIE because work got in the way. A senior position is available and i will deal with Call Manager + a few ASAs so i learned Call Manager in the mean-time.

If i do not get the position then its off to CCIE full-time.

How are your studies going Turgon ?

Turgon

inSecure.ro wrote: »

Hi Turgon,

Well not that good. I got my lab almost ready i still need an UPS and some adaptors(PCI to USB) and a PCI card with 6 usb slots.
Do not have the money yet for a good Smart-APC ups, but i am saving for it.

I did not have time to start for the CCIE because work got in the way. A senior position is available and i will deal with Call Manager + a few ASAs so i learned Call Manager in the mean-time.

If i do not get the position then its off to CCIE full-time.

How are your studies going Turgon ?

My studies are going fine thanks. Check my thread for updates. Your work and your life will *always* get in the way of your CCIE preparations because it's not a bootcampable endeavour!

Knuckle down on passing the written then reassess. As busy as you are studying for the written is easier than studying for the lab.

ipSpace

Monday i have the test/interview for the senior position. After that CCIE all year.
I will start another thread after that and already created a blog to keep track of my progress.

I wanted to ask you a question, since i will start reading for the written i was thinking of purchasing INE workbook 1 and doing some labs from there(only some basic labs from each chapter), when i start refreshing my memory(OSPF, BPG etc).

Do you think that is a good approach ?

Turgon

inSecure.ro wrote: »

Monday i have the test/interview for the senior position. After that CCIE all year.
I will start another thread after that and already created a blog to keep track of my progress.

I wanted to ask you a question, since i will start reading for the written i was thinking of purchasing INE workbook 1 and doing some labs from there(only some basic labs from each chapter), when i start refreshing my memory(OSPF, BPG etc).

Do you think that is a good approach ?

Not really. To pass the written you read. Kill yourself for 200 hours reading Odom and the recommended papers on the Cisco Website. Do the Odom tests and the Boson tests. Pass the written then go on to lab prep, that's what separates the men from the boys. 1000 hours of lab prep. Good luck!

Plazma

I actually have to disagree a bit with Turgon here, while reading is essential to pass the written, actually doing some practical labs will only benefit you. You could try a hybrid approach, read and study.. then if you don't understand something, go to the INE vol 1 labs and do a few.

I also want to say, realize that by starting a new job, no matter what, you're going to have a good 30-90 days+ of a rough patch.. adjusting to the work, the load (or lack thereof) , environment etc. If you can't study that much for a few weeks upon getting hired, don't fret.. just roll with it and hit it hard as much and soon as you can.

Lastly, try not to get too wrapped up in the micro-managing your life and schedule.. spending too much time on that can suck away precious time and lead to nothing but despair. It's great to plan ahead and get a good foundation built, but if you obsess over what type of steel your nails are made from, you'll never build anything on top of that foundation

Good luck!

Turgon

Plazma wrote: »

I actually have to disagree a bit with Turgon here, while reading is essential to pass the written, actually doing some practical labs will only benefit you. You could try a hybrid approach, read and study.. then if you don't understand something, go to the INE vol 1 labs and do a few.

I also want to say, realize that by starting a new job, no matter what, you're going to have a good 30-90 days+ of a rough patch.. adjusting to the work, the load (or lack thereof) , environment etc. If you can't study that much for a few weeks upon getting hired, don't fret.. just roll with it and hit it hard as much and soon as you can.

Lastly, try not to get too wrapped up in the micro-managing your life and schedule.. spending too much time on that can suck away precious time and lead to nothing but despair. It's great to plan ahead and get a good foundation built, but if you obsess over what type of steel your nails are made from, you'll never build anything on top of that foundation

Good luck!

No issues with some disagreement. Let me provide some context. I agree that some labbing for written prep is a good thing so by all means do some! That said the written and the lab are different beasts although I have always maintained a written well learned and well earned will certainly help your lab prep trek. But I think a lot of candidates shortcircuit an essential part of the journey sometimes by not doing enough reading before the vendor workbook grind begins. The written is an important part of the journey so learn as much as you can. I also agree with the new job situation, there is a lot to focus on while you bed into a new company so prioritise that so you can study eventually without worries on the workfront.

ipSpace

Thanks Turgon and Plazma for the great hints. Both are good approaches in my opinion.

I forgot to mention that the Sr. position is in within my company.
The "funny" thing is that i am the only Network Engineer from my country, and i still need to compete with other Network Engineers from outside for the Sr. Position.

Well it looks correct in my opinion, but it would have been nice to promote me directly.

Let's see what happens.

Will be dreaming of CUCM and ASAs tonight