Job change during pregnancy - would you do it?

xenodamus

I'm seriously torn here and I'm not sure if I'm being cautious or just scared.

I'm currently doing desktop support for a large hospital where I'm reasonably well paid, have AWESOME benefits, and extreme job security. My wife is due in September and as it stands now, our delivery will only cost $750 out of pocket.

You may remember some of my old posts about a Network Engineer long term contract position with Lockheed Martin that slipped through my fingers because I was denied my interim secret clearance. Well...my secret was approved last week....and they still want me. I feel like this could be my ticket to the big time - thousands of Cisco boxes, secret clearance, and a $15,000 raise. The down sides are a 75 minute commute, CISSP required in 6 months, and a cut in benefits....including a much higher deductible for my pregnant wife.

If I take this job, we could be looking at a worst case scenario of $3000 out of pocket. Their family coverage is also much higher, and after all things are considered I would only bring home about $500-600 more each month with the baby on board.

So, in conclusion, would either of these factors be enough to make you refuse an opportunity like this? (1 hour 15 min commute/crappy deductible while pregnant) The thought of losing my job over a CISSP fail scares me, but I have enough confidence in my abilities to take that one on. There is room for advancement where I'm at on the systems team (my second choice with networking being first), and I could make the same money, but it could take 5 more years to do it.

networker050184

It would definitely make me think long and hard about making the change. That commute is pretty hard core. Especially with a new baby coming along. The benefits would also be a major concern. Plenty of doctor visits come a long with a new baby.

What are your chances of landing something similar closer to home? I see you are in MS so probably not too likely.

If this is something that you really feel will help your career in the long run then it may be worth it. I'd sit down and discuss the pros and cons with your wife and go from there.

j_griffith

It seems to me the concern is about the risk you accept for taking a job without the credential (CISSP). So get busy on getting the CERT. Explain to the hiring manager or HR, that you can't except the risk, but would like to contact them upon your achieving the cert within a time period you think you can achieve it. When is your child due? If you only have a couple of months, perhaps you can complete the cert exam, have your child with current benefits, and roll into a new job. Not easy, but achievable, and what networker050184 said. TALK WITH THE WIFE, she may not wish to accept more anxiety while becoming a new mom. The commute is a downer, but you could do it for a year, Then pursue other opportunities with the company, or another using your clearance (it transfers) and new CISSP cert with "security focused" experience.

Good Fortune to you.

J.

keenon

In my opinion I would say pass at the present time. 75min commute 1 way, second child coming soon, reduction in benefits (added out of pocket cost) and required get cert in 6 months with all of this going on.

I think the 15k raise would end up being like 5 - 7k after added expenses. Car gas costs,wear and tear.

I also agree with networker050184 on the fact there may not be as many opportunities in your area and if you do need to take it talk with the wife.

Everyone

What is your current commute? Gas prices are high right now, a commute that long could mean a huge increase in expenses, as they are unlikely to pay for your commute. So that extra $15k/yr ends up being a lot less because you're spending more to get to work. Don't forget to count your time in this too. Calculate what your hourly wage would be based on your annual salary and a 40 hour work week. If you spend 2.5 hours in the car every day, and your time is worth $40/hr, you're losing $26k/yr in time alone. Far more than what your increase would be.

You could relocate, but if they don't pay relocation expenses, you have to figure out how long you'd have to work there to cover the cost of your relocation (if you can even afford to relocate on your own).

While working for Lockheed can look great on your resume (I'm lucky enough to be able to include it on mine), your chances for advancement will be slim to none while working on a contract for them that requires a security clearance. They get the contract with the government at the location for up to 5 years. The positions required are set by the government, and they do not change for the duration of the contract. If the contract says they need 1 Network Administrator but no Senior Network Administrator, and you take the job, you will have absolutely no chance of moving up to a Senior position at that location. Your only hope will be to apply internally for a position at another location.

If the contract expires, you'll find yourself interviewing for your own job with both them, and every other contractor bidding on the new contract. That's what happened to me. I took a job with them on a contract that had 3 years left out of the 5 they had originally won it for. The contract came up, I had to interview for my own job, not knowing who was going to win. I looked at positions internally with Lockheed first, couldn't find any that I'd qualify for, so I decided to put myself on the market and see what else was out there. I was willing to move anywhere in the country at the time, so before the whole contract renewal mess was done, I had already found a good offer in another state so I took it. I'm glad I did, because all but 1 of my friends that I worked with there ended up losing their jobs. The government decided to do GS positions instead of contracts, and they made huge cuts getting rid of several positions all together. One of my friends was lucky enough to get the 1 Systems Administrator job they kept, but took a big pay cut for it.

DigitalZeroOne

A clearance is very valuable; your clearance is not tied to any one organization, so you may want to look around for other opportunities. Also, since you have it now you may want to negotiate for more money. For the long term, I would take any clearance related job because overall you get paid more because everyone isn't able to get a clearance.

Post your resume with the clearance now, I bet you get a ton of calls.

ccnxjr

Pass,
You'll start with 0 sick days, whereas you should have some sick days/leave built up at your current organization , if you need it.

A baby is a "game changer", you may have factored in direct costs with the delivery, however you have some rapport with your supervisors (good i hope), so they should be understanding and supportive if you need to take that time off to get formula, pick up a prescription before the pharmacy closes, or overlook tardiness because you were up all night tending to the baby :P
Having a newborn is not like getting a puppy or moving to a new house, your baby may not have a fixed schedule and just because the hospital clears your wife to return home doesn't mean she's fully recovered.

Also, Lookheed-Martin saw something in you which made them extend the offer, figure out what that is and focus on developing it.
Don't see this option as passing up on a "once in a lifetime opportunity" , but rather see it as time to prepare for a better opportunity!

ipSpace

Everyone wrote: »

What is your current commute? Gas prices are high right now, a commute that long could mean a huge increase in expenses, as they are unlikely to pay for your commute. So that extra $15k/yr ends up being a lot less because you're spending more to get to work. Don't forget to count your time in this too. Calculate what your hourly wage would be based on your annual salary and a 40 hour work week. If you spend 2.5 hours in the car every day, and your time is worth $40/hr, you're losing $26k/yr in time alone. Far more than what your increase would be.
.

I would pass also. Take in consideration what everyone said.
I think you are enthusiastic about the fact that somebody is pushing/forcing you to get the CISSP.

DO NOT FORGET! You can get the CISSP without them in 6 months also, by pushing/forcing yourself.

Hypntick

I'm gonna have to hop on the bandwagon here a bit. You've got a new baby coming, now is not the time to lose any stability. I know you're confident in passing the CISSP, i'm sure you very well could, however you have to consider that it's going to be hanging over your head. With the added stress of a new child, a new job, a 75 minute commute each way (I hate long drives) and increased benefit costs, will you be able to fully devote the type of time you need to this cert?

There do appear to be some awesome pros at this job, but I think the cons currently outweigh those.

rwmidl

Check out the Security forum to see how long people prepare for the CISSP. It's no trivial matter, add the new baby to the mix and you get the idea...

I'd pass for now, but once the baby arrives maybe start thinking about doing the CISSP prep.

xenodamus

The poll results are speaking for themselves thus far, lol.

Right now I am commuting 40 miles/45 min each way. So I would be doubling my travel. Gas is definitely a consideration, especially if it hits $4-$5 per gallon.

The responses so far have convinced me that the bad feeling I have in my gut isn't fear, but a sense of obligation and responsibility toward my growing family.

The baby is due in September, so working on the CISSP BEFORE taking a position sounds like a really good idea. I can't deny the fact the the CISSP requirement has me worried too.

After I started having these negative feelings I proposed a $5,000 increase ($65k). They came back with $2,500 ($62.5k). I asked my wife and she said it would take $10,000 ($70k) for her to feel good about it. The recruiter said to talk it over tonight and tell him what it would take for me to accept, so they have something to leave on the table. How would you handle that?

Everyone

xenodamus wrote: »

The poll results are speaking for themselves thus far, lol.

Right now I am commuting 40 miles/45 min each way. So I would be doubling my travel. Gas is definitely a consideration, especially if it hits $4-$5 per gallon.

The responses so far have convinced me that the bad feeling I have in my gut isn't fear, but a sense of obligation and responsibility toward my growing family.

The baby is due in September, so working on the CISSP BEFORE taking a position sounds like a really good idea. I can't deny the fact the the CISSP requirement has me worried too.

After I started having these negative feelings I proposed a $5,000 increase. They came back with $2,500. I asked my wife and she said it would take $10,000 for her to feel good about it. The recruiter said to talk it over tonight and tell him what it would take for me to accept, so they have something to leave on the table. How would you handle that?

With gas at $4 a gallon, even if you have a vehicle that gets 30mpg average, it's going to cost you $4,853/yr in gas to get to work and back.

Like I said, count your time in too. You're going to spend an extra hour in the car every day. If your time is worth $40/hr, then you're losing $10,400/yr worth of your time. Add in the gas cost, and you're already over the amount your raise would be, plus you have other expenses that will increase greatly as you've mentioned.

I am in a similar position. My wife is due in August. I have some vacation time, my boss is nice enough to let me work from home if I need to. In fact a coworker's wife recently had a child, and our boss let him work from home for a couple weeks so he could help out with the new baby. My wife's hours have been cut at her job, and while I have a pretty good salary, I feel that I should be getting paid 30-40% more for the level of work I do and responsibilities I have. Plus my job security has come into question with a pending acquisition. I'm sure I could stick it out here for at least 1 more year, maybe as many as 3 to 5. However I hate just having enough to pay bills, and without my wife being able to work full time, that's all my salary will support until I get some debt paid off (mostly her student loans).

I had plan to wait until after the baby was born to decide if I should start looking for a new job. That has recently changed. I have the skills and experience needed to pull in a big enough salary to where my wife could stay home with the kids and not have to worry about working. I decided I shouldn't settle for less. So I'm exploring my options and seeing what I can find without having to sacrifice too much family time or having to move us again.

Jinuyr

The biggest thing I think to consider is your work/life balance. Eventhough you're saving a lot of time on the commute, most of this will be redirected towards attaining a new level of certification. Finding out what the needs of your Family and your current or future Employer is an important factor to consider when making this decision.

If I were in your shoes, my wife would probably have me stay at the current job when presented with all the information. Without this full explanation though, she would be pushing me towards the better job, $15,000 is $15,000 no matter how you decide to look at it.

However, if you find that the time is the same, you have the drive to make yourself successful in that position, then by all means go for it. Having an opportunity like this is rare for most people. In your shoes, I would want the job for myself, especially the level of accomplishment I would get by completing the CISSP and retaining the position.

Hope this help. ^_^

brad-

75 minute commute killed it for me. No way i would do that with kids. Single - yes, but not under family circumstances. Not only are you going to be out that time with them, it'll be impossible for you to take care of anything when they get sick/need stuff. All of that will fall on your wife.

NOC-Ninja

Security Clearance is golden. You will usually get a reliable job since you will be working for the govt or a contractor for the govt. Govt usually have years of contract depending when you got in. Im actually in a 10 years contract. I feel at ease and secure.

The tough part is the baby. You need insurance. You dont know what will happen if the baby comes out. Does you wife have insurance? What if the baby gets sick? You will end up spending $$$ without a help from insurance. Also, 75minutes will hold you down from your family and seeing the baby.

Turgon

xenodamus wrote: »

I'm seriously torn here and I'm not sure if I'm being cautious or just scared.

I'm currently doing desktop support for a large hospital where I'm reasonably well paid, have AWESOME benefits, and extreme job security. My wife is due in September and as it stands now, our delivery will only cost $750 out of pocket.

You may remember some of my old posts about a Network Engineer long term contract position with Lockheed Martin that slipped through my fingers because I was denied my interim secret clearance. Well...my secret was approved last week....and they still want me. I feel like this could be my ticket to the big time - thousands of Cisco boxes, secret clearance, and a $15,000 raise. The down sides are a 75 minute commute, CISSP required in 6 months, and a cut in benefits....including a much higher deductible for my pregnant wife.

If I take this job, we could be looking at a worst case scenario of $3000 out of pocket. Their family coverage is also much higher, and after all things are considered I would only bring home about $500-600 more each month with the baby on board.

So, in conclusion, would either of these factors be enough to make you refuse an opportunity like this? (1 hour 15 min commute/crappy deductible while pregnant) The thought of losing my job over a CISSP fail scares me, but I have enough confidence in my abilities to take that one on. There is room for advancement where I'm at on the systems team (my second choice with networking being first), and I could make the same money, but it could take 5 more years to do it.

Stay where you are. I dont know if this is your first child but we have two. A three year old and a four month old. I have had three job changes in that time because I was contracting, including one stint in contenental Europe. Now I have been permanent one year and it's much better for us.

Go for stability. Having children is an enormous take on your time and focus, both of you. Your wife will need a lot of support. Get the first two years done and then look around. If you have the clearnance now the jobs will be there for you later on. When a baby is due pour concrete down on your work situation fast. You need some stability in your life.

xenodamus

Man...they aren't making this any easier for me. I called this morning to decline the offer and the agency offered to pay for COBRA to keep my current insurance until the baby is born.

AND...they said I'll be able to study for the CISSP on the clock and will have training courses available to me.

I forgot to mention that my wife is planning to be a stay at home mom. She left her job a month or so ago and will be there with the baby full time for at least the first few years.

Does any of this affect anyone's opinion? Or am I just trying to talk myself into it?

rwmidl

That certainly doesn't make it any easier. While the CISSP is doable in 6 mos (depending on your experience), it's the commute that would get me. It's very obvious they want you. I'm going to give you the same advice my dad gives me when comparing job opportunities; you need to get a sheet of paper and draw a line down the middle. Write the pro's for taking the new job in one column and the cons in the other. Do the same with your current job. Then you just have to compare.

ccnxjr

This could be a great career move, you seem to have the support of your wife, and positive outlook.

If they really want you , on top of everything else offered they need to guarantee you'll be able to take at least one week off when the baby is born, plus allow you some flex time for emergencies. See if you can talk with the manager you'll be reporting to (not just the recruiter! they'll promise you the sun and moon!) , get a feel if you think he's an honorable understanding fella.
Some companies are family oriented *shrugg*

Have gone through the route during peak time , or is your estimate based on off peak times (less traffic) ?

Do you have friends/family close to where you live, just in case?
If so, might be worth it.

rwmidl

I switched jobs about a month before my daughter was born. I was up front in the interview that I would need to take a few days off, and they were fine with that (she was born on a Thursday and I was back to work on Monday).

As ccnxjr said above, I would talk to and clear all this with the manager, and not the recruiter.

Everyone

See if they'll pay mileage and/or travel time. Talk to your wife about relocation. If she is OK with moving, ask if they'll help pay relocation costs so you can move closer (if you plan on being there for a long time that is).

thetrillionaire

The raise probably wont be that noticeable because of the many factors that come into play. I would take into consideration the types of doors that having a clearance can open up for you. Also I assume that since this position requires a CISSP that they will help you obtain it? If so that could also be well worth it.

blargoe

If they increased the offer, offered to pay for your COBRA (which is NOT CHEAP!!!), and offer to let you study for the CISSP on the clock... hell, go a little further and see if they'll push back the deadline for your to obtain the cert to 9 or 12 months.

I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation. Doubling the gas mileage and drive time really sucks. If you're leaving home before the wife and kid wake up, you're still losing about 40-60 minutes of prime time evening quality time, and adding wear and tear (maintenance$$$) for your transportation.

However, the doors this could open for you... having the secret clearance, CISSP, and networking experience... in a year or two, you should be able to bolt toward a better situation for your family, be it relocation or finding a networking/security job closer to home.

Tough choice...

Do you or your wife have family close by?

Heero

Since it hasn't been mentioned, is moving out of the option? For me, the commute is the worst aspect by far. If the commute wasn't bad, I wouldn't even see the issue, it would just be take the job.

xenodamus

Man...it's been a busy week.

To answer some of the questions, we do have family nearby. Where we currently live, her parents are within 10 minutes and my mother and sister are a block away. I feel very comfortable with my wife staying home since we have so much family close by. If she ever needed something there are plenty of people to call.

Moving doesn't look like an option for now. I really don't care, but my wife has no desire to move for now. She says that could change down the road, but I think being pregnant she likes being so close to everyone.

I did find out that their insurance isn't as bad as I thought originally. We'll actually end up paying about the same for the L&D.

I've thought long and hard about all of this and I think I'm going to take the job and see how it plays out. With all things considered, the only real con in our minds is the commute. To be honest....I look forward to being able to listen to all 3 hours of the Dave Ramsey show podcasts each day. I just can't get over the idea of working in a datacenter that size. Every guy on their team recently went through a bunch of classes on Cisco Nexus gear. It's been my dream to support a network that size, and I just can't pass it up.

I do think that opportunities like this are scarce in rural MS. I don't have the experience to land most corporate networking gigs, so I owe alot to my clearance. Once i'm in that door and putting my hands on equipment I feel like the sky is the limit, though. I'm definitely looking at this as a step to bigger better things.

So, thanks to everyone for their opinions/questions. It helps to hear other viewpoints. I know I'm taking a leap...but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omlet. Wish me luck on the CISSP.

LordQarlyn

I was going to be the contrarian and suggest you do take the job. I've done some leaps, some that worked out very well, some, not so well.
People willing to take the risks are much more often the ones who get ahead.
Good luck in your new position and the CISSP!

steve13ad

First off, congrats on the new job!

If I were you, I'd immediately start working on your CISSP!!!!! Due dates are basically an educated guess, my wife went 4 WEEKS past hers!

Dakinggamer87

Congrats on new job and good luck with CISSP!!