Cleared IT vs Commercial Sector IT

thetrillionaire

I have never worked commercial IT since I got into this field 7 years ago. I got my start in the Navy as an IT I separated in "09" and have worked for 2 intelligence agencies.

I would like to get into the commercial sector and see how that side works but I don't want to give up my clearance and the extra money and job security it provides.

I wanted to know how many of you are Cleared IT vs Commercial IT and what are you experiences with commercial it jobs.

instant000

thetrillionaire wrote: »

I have never worked commercial IT since I got into this field 7 years ago. I got my start in the Navy as an IT I separated in "09" and have worked for 2 intelligence agencies.

I would like to get into the commercial sector and see how that side works but I don't want to give up my clearance and the extra money and job security it provides.

I wanted to know how many of you are Cleared IT vs Commercial IT and what are you experiences with commercial it jobs.

Hah. I've done both.

I'm doing cleared IT right now.

I did the commercial sector for a few years. It was nice for building up my experience base, as I got exposed to lots of different technology: server, network, storage, etc.

But, in order for me to get the experience I need to move even higher, the types of opportunities that I'm looking for were not available in the private sector. I figure it'll do me good to get strong DoD information security experience, then leverage that to take on a less hands-on role five to ten years from now. (Though I say less hands-on, that does not absolve me of any responsibility, LOL.)

Basically, I can work in bigger environments with a clearance, and I couldn't get an in into bigger environments through the private sector ... guess I didn't know the right people.

At least I knew how to apply to DoD jobs, and being prior service with a clearance makes the clearance a lot easier to re-gain.

Everyone

There is an easy way to keep your clearance but also try out the commercial side at the same time. Get a position in the Reserves or National Guard.

When I left the Air Force, I went straight to the Air National Guard recruiter and asked if they had any openings for my career field. My career field requires a clearance, so it kept it. The job I ended up taking also required a clearance, so I had it either way.

I left the clearance job I had for Healthcare IT, but stayed in the Air National Guard, so I still have an active clearance. I don't really like Healthcare IT, at least not at this hospital, it could be better at others, but who knows. I'll be changing soon anyway, and probably to another commercial industry.

The 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year to serve in the ANG is worth it to me, even though I drill 4 hours away from where I live. I not only get to keep my clearance, but I can get TriCare Reserve Select medical benefits for less than $200 a month that covers my entire family for pretty much everything. It beats any medical benefits I've ever been offered by any company. Plus since I've been in IT for my entire Military career, I drill with several people that also do IT in their civilian jobs. Makes for some great networking opportunities.

colemic

I actually prefer the cleared environment, than commercial. I think part of the appeal for me, is the end goal - commercial entities exist to make a profit, while (usually) in a cleared environment, even as a contractor, the mission comes first (at least at the lower levels.) Decision making seems to be more about doing the right thing, as opposed to making decisions based on profit.

JMO though.

xenodamus

I'm actually about to try my luck on the cleared side. As was mentioned above, I've found that having a clearance will get you considered for higher level positions than you'll catch on the commercial side. I got my CCNA and have been looking for a networking-only position for about a year. I just don't have the experience to put my hands on anyone's routers/switches on this side.

With a clearance, though, I just landed a Network Engineer spot where I'll finally be able to build the hands on experience to be considered for higher level commercial jobs.

shodown

commercial sector for me. I worked in SCIF's since I was 18 and I can't take it anymore. Also the lack of knowledge in some Federal IT shops is criminal. I will eventually go back to DOD just cause its somethings I want to do, but once thats done I will always work commercial. I work from home 99 percent of the time, very few DOD jobs allow that, they are starting to open up more, but only for like unclass work.

LordQarlyn

Never had an actual IT job in the commercial field, but have done both commercial and DoD telecoms, and got IT job on a DoD contract.

Here's what I have seen so far. Some companies do place a big premium on a security clearance, particularly a Top Secret - seek those companies. Other companies are like "yeah, so what!" - avoid them like a plague. Aside from being paid poorly, they'll eventually go out of business because they'll lose contracts due to being unable to fullfil them (that's what happens when you treat cleared people poorly lol). On the flipside though, advancement can be slower. Generally people with DoD contract jobs (or Federal jobs) like them, so turnover is lower, meaning advancement is rarer. To counter that, get on board with a big DoD contractor. I'm with General Dynamics IT, a division under the umbrella of General Dynamics. The pay and benefits are pretty decent, and GD has contracts all over the country (and world for that matter). When one is ready to move up, and willing to relocate (some departments offer relocation, some do not, ultimately depends what's written in the contract with DoD) one just needs to apply to a higher level position within the company; internal hires get priority.

Also, while job security is often cited as a benefit of being a DoD contractor, yes that is generally true, but it can happen, that a project gets the plugged pulled, and everyone on that contract can lose their job. GD is good about finding work for affected employees, but there are no guarantees of course.

Jinuyr

colemic wrote: »

I actually prefer the cleared environment, than commercial. I think part of the appeal for me, is the end goal - commercial entities exist to make a profit, while (usually) in a cleared environment, even as a contractor, the mission comes first (at least at the lower levels.) Decision making seems to be more about doing the right thing, as opposed to making decisions based on profit.

JMO though.

I think this is a good explanation of Commercial IT. I have worked in the Hospitality industry for over 10 years now, most of it in IT. Nearly everything is about asking the question, "How can we provide competitive service to our guests and customers at the lowest cost to our organization?"

Don't get me wrong though, this is what I enjoy most about this environment. It's always an uphill battle when it comes to Commercial IT in this industry. I often have to find creative ways to showing the value of what we do and can provide to our user and guests.

As far as security and clearance... My organization employs a number of IT personnel all over the world. While compliance is a big thing, security as a whole is often overlooked. So it will definitely be a big change if you were to go from Cleared to Commercial. I worked for five hotels in Las Vegas as IT and with enough social engineering you can find yourself in the heart of their Data Centers. There was only one property that used a layered security approach.

DigitalZeroOne

thetrillionaire wrote: »

I would like to get into the commercial sector and see how that side works but I don't want to give up my clearance and the extra money and job security it provides.

This is like finding that wonderful woman, and then deciding to break up with her because you want to see what the "other" woman is like.

You didn't really give details on the bad side of a cleared job, so I'm curious why you want to try commercial. I have worked in commercial and I now work DoD contracts in DC. I like the smaller pool of workers and job availability. Of course I could lose the contract at the drop of a hat, but there are plenty of contracts out there.

instant000

shodown wrote: »

commercial sector for me. I worked in SCIF's since I was 18 and I can't take it anymore.

Remind me of some past co-workers. One used to always say that he spent 20 years of his life in there, and didn't want to go back. The other guy did lots of Unix. Often talked about going the entire day without seeing the sunlight (or the night without seeing the moon, depending upon your shift). Or another guy, who liked to say he'd go through a door, through a door, and through another door, but he'd still have to get past a few more doors, just to get to his office. He said that if they ever had a fire, he might not make it out alive.

Also the lack of knowledge in some Federal IT shops is criminal.

^^^ Sad, but true. I don't have a problem with their hiring someone with disability, as long as they're qualified to do the job. I do have a problem with their hiring someone's friend, when they don't have the foggiest clue of what they're doing.

I will eventually go back to DOD just cause its somethings I want to do, but once thats done I will always work commercial.

Yeah, feeding that itch. Commercial can be more rewarding. ... as with anything, you get out of it what you put into it.

I work from home 99 percent of the time, very few DOD jobs allow that, they are starting to open up more, but only for like unclass work.

I'm a full advocate of limiting remote access to sensitive data. (However, with a pointer to the clueless Federal IT worker you mentioned above, sometimes local access can be even less secure, sadly.)

thetrillionaire

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

You didn't really give details on the bad side of a cleared job, so I'm curious why you want to try commercial. I have worked in commercial and I now work DoD contracts in DC. I like the smaller pool of workers and job availability. Of course I could lose the contract at the drop of a hat, but there are plenty of contracts out there.

I don't consider anything bad I have just been in my field my whole adult life. I always wanted to know what it would be like to take my cell phone to work or possibly even work from home. All pretty trivial stuff just something I would like to experience. I just knocked out my poly so I probably wont be going to the other side anytime soon. The one good thing is i get to work with the latest and greatest in technology but I also deal with a lot of red tape and a whole lot of ID10T's

2E151

Everyone wrote: »

There is an easy way to keep your clearance but also try out the commercial side at the same time. Get a position in the Reserves or National Guard.

+1 for the Air National Guard. Got my current job via contacts from my Air Guard unit.

2E151

thetrillionaire wrote: »

I wanted to know how many of you are Cleared IT vs Commercial IT and what are you experiences with commercial it jobs.

If your still in Augusta then its almost a no brainer. I haven't seen a commerical IT position that comes close to matching anything out at Fort Gordon or the Savannah River Site.

The few commerical positions I've looked into are offering at most 20 to 30K less than what I'm making on post.

Everyone

2E151 wrote: »

If your still in Augusta then its almost a no brainer. I haven't seen a commerical IT position that comes close to matching anything out at Fort Gordon or the Savannah River Site.

The few commerical positions I've looked into are offering at most 20 to 30K less than what I'm making on post.

Yeah location plays a huge roll in it. If you leave near any Military base, salaries for the IT jobs in the local area often don't come near to what's on base. Usually because it's only smaller towns near them though. If you live close enough to a major metropolitan area (or are willing to move to one), commercial IT can pay even more than a cleared job would.

it_consultant

Having worked both I will never touch another government computer or system as long as I can help it. Obviously if the family is starving and a gov't contract position opens, I would take it. From my experience you have to be much better in private sector IT to justify your pay then in government - that is not to say that there aren't fantastic gov't IT guys (hell I know a few of them) it IS to say that crappy IT guys tend to stay in gov't positions because they can fly under the radar. This causes issues for me.

Ultimately it is up to you to decide the work environment you want to be in. Private industry tends to be more fast paced and the standards, professionally and technically, are higher. Public sector IT includes things like forensics for law enforcement, experience that is difficult to get in the private sector.

higherho

Cleared IT here. I have to say that in certain parts of the government they will have some of the latest and greatest stuff (development, security) but a majority is a different story. I think the private sector puts a lot more money into their IT staff than cleared.

@IT consultant

I agree with you 100% about crappy IT guys can fly under the radar in the govt. its bad really =/

Everyone

higherho wrote: »

Cleared IT here. I have to say that in certain parts of the government they will have some of the latest and greatest stuff (development, security) but a majority is a different story.

Where have you worked that actually had the latest and greatest? I always run into several versions/years behind, because the latest and greatest hadn't been tested and approved yet.

higherho wrote: »

I think the private sector puts a lot more money into their IT staff than cleared.

I think this depends on the industry more than private vs public/cleared.

higherho

Everyone wrote: »

Where have you worked that actually had the latest and greatest? I always run into several versions/years behind, because the latest and greatest hadn't been tested and approved yet.

Well I should word it a bit differently. Without going into detail, the development environment in the gov in general needs to be above the XP / Windows 2003 combo. Certain parts (mainly normal user environment) upgraded to 2007 office / exchange but we have 2010 instead, latest SQL server, Visual studio, etc.

Getting Windows 7 was a god send but yes I know Windows 8 is around the corner. Plus if you do have software that is not approved then typically you have to be on separate domain.

I think this depends on the industry more than private vs public/cleared.

True but I'm still shocked coming from a technical school who runs the latest switches / routers / Catylsyst switches vs places that are big enough to get more and actually need it but still run 2960 access switches.

WafflesAndRootbeer

Everyone wrote: »

Where have you worked that actually had the latest and greatest? I always run into several versions/years behind, because the latest and greatest hadn't been tested and approved yet.


I think this depends on the industry more than private vs public/cleared.

True dat. Would you believe that I recently did a massive (huge number of users) migration job from Windows 2000/NT to XP Professional for a prominent financial institution?!

Everyone

My part time GOV job still has me working on 2000 Pro and XP desktops, 2000 and 2003 Servers, with some Solaris 8 in the mix. Exchange 2000, some really old Sybase and Oracle stuff too.

When I left full time GOV work, the location I was at was slowly moving to Vista on the desktop side, this was after 7 had been out for a little while. Server side was still 2003 with no plans for 2008 anytime soon. Exchange 2003 too. I think SQL was at least on 2005.