What kind of bonuses getting/expect for your certificationss?

MrAgent

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

In my area the IT industry is almost entirely contract-based, no matter who pays you, so you can forget any sort of compensation or even recognition for getting a cert. Oddly enough, quite a few companies will actually put it in writing when you sign on that you are to get additional certifications of their choosing in a timely manner and on a regular basis in order to remain employed with them. It's really absurd but nobody is actually hiring for real IT jobs here anymore so you don't have much choice but to bounce around from gig to gig if you can't keep up with the demands.

You must be talking to different companies than the ones I have worked for. Im also in Northern VA area. Every company I have worked for has had at least reimbursement and some of them offered bonuses upon completion of a particular cert that was directly related to your position. Ive also never once had a company tell me that in order to keep my position, I would have to get certified. There are plenty of real IT jobs around here. After all, it is considered the IT capital.

Turgon

instant000 wrote: »

You say a lot about chemistry in your post (it was my first major). Let me see if I can get this right.

major on-the-job accomplishments = 6.02x10^23(education+certs+prior experience)

Is that it?

Pretty much although Im not sure about the maths there But yes, you want to be perceived as a player by people who offer the major projects and essentially decide who does or does not advance within an organisation. How you handle yourself around other people dictates a lot of that.

instant000

Turgon wrote: »

Pretty much although Im not sure about the maths there

You can compute from decimal, to binary, to hex in your head, and you have issues with a simple multiplication problem?

The point of the expression was that it was a really big number

Mole (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But yes, you want to be perceived as a player by people who offer the major projects and essentially decide who does or does not advance within an organisation. How you handle yourself around other people dictates a lot of that.

Understood.

Turgon

instant000 wrote: »

You can compute from decimal, to binary, to hex in your head, and you have issues with a simple multiplication problem?

The point of the expression was that it was a really big number

Mole (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Understood.

hehehe..I just wasn't sure my major accomplishments warrant so many powers of two. But yeah, that's a big number right there!

ConradJ

Nothing. My boss doesn't believe in certs (small company, only 3 of us here).

ehnde

ConradJ wrote: »

Nothing. My boss doesn't believe in certs (small company, only 3 of us here).

As long as he believes in paying you....

colemic

I am required to pass the CISA as part of my continued employment. However, they will reimburse the test cost for a pass, and I get around a 5% raise. It is a relevant cert to have for my industry.)

Zentraedi

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I guess this is a pretty nice perk.

Anyway, for those of you who get training/test vouchers paid for by the company, how does that work? Do they give you specific goals and only pay for specific, pre-approved training? Is there a limit? My company just states, 10% of annual salary budget for any training materials. Looks like VCP will really eat into that.

WafflesAndRootbeer

Zentraedi wrote: »

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I guess this is a pretty nice perk.

Anyway, for those of you who get training/test vouchers paid for by the company, how does that work? Do they give you specific goals and only pay for specific, pre-approved training? Is there a limit? My company just states, 10% of annual salary budget for any training materials. Looks like VCP will really eat into that.

You get the voucher yourself, take the test, submit the expense report, and hopefully get paid back if the person above you chooses to sign off on it. That's usually how it is done and it keeps employees from wasting company money by having them pay for their own tests outright. When it comes to training, that's usually something they come to you with and they pay all the costs upfront if it is something really important to them that they feel is mandatory for everyone so they will offer an employee course through a contractor, though there are instances where you can go to them and ask them to reimburse you for the cost of specific training once you get a cert. That can be exceptionally rare because it can lead to employees milking the company and jumping ship as soon as they get what they need though you will see instances where they will require you to sign a contract that you won't leave the company for a specific amount of time if you go down that route. However, many companies such as service providers simply offer online training material and online classes as part of your employee benefits and will not go beyond that when it comes to helping you out.

higherho

Some employers do but if you have no formal education (2 year, 4 year , masters ,etc) degree's and just work off experience and certs you will not get the big bucks in the private sector as much as people who would with degrees / education / certs.

Now if you have a degree there is a set basis for most jobs that require a certain degree type and typically certifications are either "required or desired but not required". If you have education and then get certs you can use that to boost your pay or ask for more because you are more proficient on that certain technology the cert offers.

Right now I got 3 promotions in 14 months (contractor here) and during that time I am getting certs but also getting used to the new position and responsibilities. Now in terms of debating pay raise I would say this is the certs I achieved, the progress I did within the contract, and starting a Masters degree. Most employers (big companies, etc) if they see advancement and progress they typically reward you for that.

Plantwiz

Zentraedi wrote: »

...

Anyway, for those of you who get training/test vouchers paid for by the company, how does that work? Do they give you specific goals and only pay for specific, pre-approved training? Is there a limit? My company just states, 10% of annual salary budget for any training materials. Looks like VCP will really eat into that.

Just remember...

He who holds the 'purse' (wallet) holds the control.

If you have an employer 'paying' THEY now have the CONTROL to fire or write you up if you FAIL to meet the 'goal'.

Be pro-active. IF the employer reimburses, than usually, you pay out-of-pocket first, provide a receipt and they reimburse you back...generally, that is the best way.

If they pay you up front, then the pressure is on YOU to PASS or complete the goal in 'x' time.

If you can have your expenses covered, by all means, that is very nice! Simply keep in mind, if they are demanding a certain amount of certs per year (say quarterly or such) after a year or two, you may be out of exams that qualify in your skillset, and you'll be taking exams that may not have anything to do with the work you perform. Nice to have, but at what cost? (Example, if you only work with MS product, and will never work with routing let alone CISCO product, you may find you run out of exams in three maybe four years (that pertain to the OS/NOS or environment you work in...even with upgrade exams, you will only need a couple of those once they happen, so it is possible to run out of exams that directly benefit your position (and future positions within the organization)....SO, just be careful if you let the company dicate the # of exams they want you to take in a specified period of time, unless there is a disclaimer that they will only pay for exams that directly benefit or improve your skills they need you to have and after you have completed all exams, you are than only required to take upgrade exams).

Everyone

higherho wrote: »

Some employers do but if you have no formal education (2 year, 4 year , masters ,etc) degree's and just work off experience and certs you will not get the big bucks in the private sector as much as people who would with degrees / education / certs.

FALSE!

higherho wrote: »

Now if you have a degree there is a set basis for most jobs that require a certain degree type and typically certifications are either "required or desired but not required". If you have education and then get certs you can use that to boost your pay or ask for more because you are more proficient on that certain technology the cert offers.

Also FALSE!

WafflesAndRootbeer

Plantwiz wrote: »

Just remember...

He who holds the 'purse' (wallet) holds the control.

If you have an employer 'paying' THEY now have the CONTROL to fire or write you up if you FAIL to meet the 'goal'.

Be pro-active. IF the employer reimburses, than usually, you pay out-of-pocket first, provide a receipt and they reimburse you back...generally, that is the best way.

If they pay you up front, then the pressure is on YOU to PASS or complete the goal in 'x' time.

If you can have your expenses covered, by all means, that is very nice! Simply keep in mind, if they are demanding a certain amount of certs per year (say quarterly or such) after a year or two, you may be out of exams that qualify in your skillset, and you'll be taking exams that may not have anything to do with the work you perform. Nice to have, but at what cost? (Example, if you only work with MS product, and will never work with routing let alone CISCO product, you may find you run out of exams in three maybe four years (that pertain to the OS/NOS or environment you work in...even with upgrade exams, you will only need a couple of those once they happen, so it is possible to run out of exams that directly benefit your position (and future positions within the organization)....SO, just be careful if you let the company dicate the # of exams they want you to take in a specified period of time, unless there is a disclaimer that they will only pay for exams that directly benefit or improve your skills they need you to have and after you have completed all exams, you are than only required to take upgrade exams).

You pretty much said what has been kicking around in my head for a while now and it ties in to what I said earlier. Where I live, the industry is contract-based and the contracting companies are all fighting for as much work as they can get their hands on even if they aren't capable of doing it. That being said, it is very common for them to push you (or force you as the case often is) to get certs that directly (and only) benefit them by making them eligible for service contract requirements (Dell, HP, Cisco, Xerox, Whatever) or that make them look good on paper when they get audited by industry watchdogs who give out awards and certifications for "quality control". If you ever take a job with a service provider, you will likely find yourself faced with the choice of getting those certs because the company is taking on additional work or going elsewhere. That's one of the reasons why the employee turnover rate is so high with the contracted outsourcing companies who chase profits. For example, I once did a gig for CompuCom several years ago where I was contracted through a staffing firm (temp-to-hire) to work on a desktop support contract for a financial institution client of theirs. After I started, I was not-so gently or politely told to get product specific certifications for industrial printers, copiers, fax machines, bulk shredders, and various other things which were pretty much unrelated to the work I had signed on to do and was told about before I began working. The reason for that? Well, they have contracts for IT support with many many many clients ranging from franchised auto dealerships to hospitals, schools, and financial institutions. Those clients all had service contracts with other companies to provide support for office equipment and what have you, so CompuCom wanted in on it to get new contracts with those clients based on dependency for services (We can do it all Vs. The other guys can only fix your plumbing for the same price) and to make themselves appear more attractive to potential clients by providing more comprehensive service than other companies while keeping their prices cheap. The end result? They are now in a lot of trouble with some pending lawsuits and loads of complaints on all sides from taking on work they couldn't do, using unethical and underhanded means to save money, and violating labor laws.

higherho

Everyone wrote: »

FALSE!



Also FALSE!

Hence I said "some" and I was mainly talking about corporations (HP, Northrop,Google,etc) these places you will need a degree to work in (if you want a decent position / career growth) or a ton of exp but generally with corporations no degree = they do not have to pay you as much as you think.

Everyone

higherho wrote: »

Hence I said "some" and I was mainly talking about corporations (HP, Northrop,Google,etc) these places you will need a degree to work in (if you want a decent position / career growth) or a ton of exp but generally with corporations no degree = they do not have to pay you as much as you think.

You'd be surprised. I have a Fortune 50 company on my resume. Without a degree I got paid just as much as the guy sitting next to me who did have one. I'm currently interviewing with 2 Fortune 50 companies, and 1 Fortune 500 company. All pretty high paying positions.

I may be an exception, but I refuse to subscribe to the "You must have a piece of paper to get anywhere in life" school of thought.

higherho

Everyone wrote: »

You'd be surprised. I have a Fortune 50 company on my resume. Without a degree I got paid just as much as the guy sitting next to me who did have one. I'm currently interviewing with 2 Fortune 50 companies, and 1 Fortune 500 company. All pretty high paying positions.

I may be an exception, but I refuse to subscribe to the "You must have a piece of paper to get anywhere in life" school of thought.

I guess its one of those things that it really depends who you're applying for. It is a known fact that an education will open up more doors for you.



For our industry not having one is going to make things harder 5 years from now. Any lack of each credential field (experience, degree, and certs. Exp being the big one) is going to make the competition much harder. S&P 500 is rough to get into without a degree or knowing someone. I say rough because the competition has the degrees, has the exp, and typically certs too. Google? BS degree for a Network Engineering job (required)

Network Engineer - New York - US jobs - Google

Of course people can apply and they could get accepted without the degree but I'm sure your resume is going to be on the pile below the person who has one and all the credentials you do.

10 years from now I think it will be extremely hard to get a job with a corporation (where you can make the big bucks) in the IT field (if not impossible) without some formal education.

One of the only places I seen many individuals making good money ( over 50k ) without education and just having basic certifications are government / contractor jobs.

Zentraedi

Plantwiz wrote: »

Just remember...

He who holds the 'purse' (wallet) holds the control.

If you have an employer 'paying' THEY now have the CONTROL to fire or write you up if you FAIL to meet the 'goal'.

Be pro-active. IF the employer reimburses, than usually, you pay out-of-pocket first, provide a receipt and they reimburse you back...generally, that is the best way.

If they pay you up front, then the pressure is on YOU to PASS or complete the goal in 'x' time.

There's no strong pressure, but more like positive encouragement. They know that they could have me stagnate in my current role for years, but we've spoken about my interests/goals and they're coming to me with real opportunities to advance in those areas.

Plantwiz wrote: »

If you can have your expenses covered, by all means, that is very nice! Simply keep in mind, if they are demanding a certain amount of certs per year (say quarterly or such) after a year or two, you may be out of exams that qualify in your skillset, and you'll be taking exams that may not have anything to do with the work you perform. Nice to have, but at what cost? (Example, if you only work with MS product, and will never work with routing let alone CISCO product, you may find you run out of exams in three maybe four years (that pertain to the OS/NOS or environment you work in...even with upgrade exams, you will only need a couple of those once they happen, so it is possible to run out of exams that directly benefit your position (and future positions within the organization)....SO, just be careful if you let the company dicate the # of exams they want you to take in a specified period of time, unless there is a disclaimer that they will only pay for exams that directly benefit or improve your skills they need you to have and after you have completed all exams, you are than only required to take upgrade exams).

They don't demand a certain number of certs and some people just don't use training budget, because they'd rather use the free to spend with their families. The company is pretty understanding of that.

As for running out of exams, there is NO danger of that! lol, There is just so much equipment and software around that it would take me years to even get entry-level certified on every little thing.

Plantwiz

higherho wrote: »

I guess its one of those things that it really depends who you're applying for. It is a known fact that an education will open up more doors for you.


..

I've seen the opposite.

I know more people who are doing very well and are in demand becaue they 'know' what they are doing and have no 'formal' training or papers to say that they are good.

Who you know, your personality, and sometimes luck are far superior to papermill diplomas and certifications.

You 'might' earn an interview because of some degree, but can you hold the job?

N2IT

I've seen bonuses for certifications in the networking field. A few of my former co workers that I still keep in touch have mentioned getting a bonus from getting their CCNA>CCNP. Other than that it's never been mentioned, so I am not sure if that is just dumb luck or thats the way it's trending. I've never heard of any system admins or database admins getting raises for certs.

I've had my certs paid for by a former employer who wanted me to get the ITIL V3 Foundation. But I personally have never received a bonus from getting a certification.

EMcCaleb

When I first began studying for my CCIE my company was paying a $15,000 bonus (CACI). Unfortunately, by the time I received my CCIE that had dropped significantly.

higherho

Plantwiz wrote: »

I've seen the opposite.

I know more people who are doing very well and are in demand becaue they 'know' what they are doing and have no 'formal' training or papers to say that they are good.

Who you know, your personality, and sometimes luck are far superior to papermill diplomas and certifications.

You 'might' earn an interview because of some degree, but can you hold the job?

I agree with you 100% ( I thought I mentioned it in my previous post, maybe not). Knowing how to do the job means more than anything else. A cert or degree do not show that at all. I honestly think the EXP > Degree > Cert as follows. I know a few people who have just exp and do wonders but in the future exp is not going to cut it when you have others who get exp and all the other credentials. Personality and who you know play the biggest roles (trust is key to a company).

Hypntick

higherho wrote: »

I agree with you 100% ( I thought I mentioned it in my previous post, maybe not). Knowing how to do the job means more than anything else. A cert or degree do not show that at all. I honestly think the EXP > Degree > Cert as follows. I know a few people who have just exp and do wonders but in the future exp is not going to cut it when you have others who get exp and all the other credentials. Personality and who you know play the biggest roles (trust is key to a company).

I would think that your order of degree and cert would be swapped. Chances are the degree is quite a bit older than the certs are, thus making the certs more relevant to current technology. The only use I see out of a degree is ticking off the check-box for HR, then again I never placed a lot of value in structured education in the first place.

Plantwiz

Hypntick wrote: »

I would think that your order of degree and cert would be swapped. Chances are the degree is quite a bit older than the certs are, thus making the certs more relevant to current technology. The only use I see out of a degree is ticking off the check-box for HR, then again I never placed a lot of value in structured education in the first place.

In my experience, if it comes down to degree vs. cert....college wins (and it doesn't matter how many decades old it is ).

Then again, it REALLY depends on 'who' you know

higherho

Hypntick wrote: »

I would think that your order of degree and cert would be swapped. Chances are the degree is quite a bit older than the certs are, thus making the certs more relevant to current technology. The only use I see out of a degree is ticking off the check-box for HR, then again I never placed a lot of value in structured education in the first place.

A degree broadens your mind and develops the individual to be something more than just a paper holder. Certs are just specialized studies and shows that you can pass the test. A more narrow approach and A majority of IT professions cannot be narrow / straight forward.

A degree follows you for a lifetime were a cert only follows you as far as the company holds out. The individual who has the degree also shows the employer that his/ her ability to learn is obvious. I know people from Drexel, Harvard, MIT and they seem so much smarter / more educated than someone with just a high end cert. Please don't take my posts negatively I'm just trying to look at this from a HR / Corporation perspective.

Regarding the bonuses, I seen people who have the same certs but each person obtained a different bonus. How? I'm not sure how it broke down but from what I could tell the one individual was a better barter than the other and he was really good with his communication / persuasion skills.

I also typically look at my surroundings in the job and ask my self these questions and write them down:

Are you the only person on the team? Do you have a lot of responsibilities? By having this cert will the performance of the environment go up because of your new skills? All these questions can lead you from 2k to 20k.

I also use sites like pay scale to figure out the average with certain degrees / certs are for my area and I start from there.

Everyone

Just relax, and take the red one first...


One thing to keep in mind with companies that reimburse for college tuition and/or certs... You usually end up indebted to them. In order to get the reimbursement, you usually have to agree to work for the company for a predetermined amount of time. If you quit or get fired before that time is up, you have to pay everything back. Being layed off for no fault of your own usually doesn't count.