Cisco???

ShanmanShanman Member Posts: 223
I am currently taking the CCENT on Wed and feel I am ready. I have one more year for my BS in network security. I am planning on going through all the way to CCNP but now I am unsure. My friend that is a software engineer from SF is in town and just told me that doing so is a waste of time unless you are in a big company. According to him "the network is solved" and automation is the key. He told me out there he knows CCNPs and they are just low level techs. He said this would have made more sense in the late 90's when the infrastructure was being built. Now it is all mobile app development. He keeps pushing me and telling me that programming is the way to go. Can somebody please tell me I have not wasted almost 4 years of my life and thousands of dollars to become a network engineer. I really enjoy Cisco and labbing in my basement, but I know there are a lot smarter networking people out there then me. Will the job market remain or is he right?

Programming does not come as natural to me as networking icon_sad.gif

Comments

  • AhriakinAhriakin SupremeNetworkOverlord Member Posts: 1,799 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Sorry, your friend could have a 2nd career as a comedian. The reason he thinks it's "solved" is because of the ongoing work of those network engineers. The market for skilled network engineers is very healthy right now.
    We responded to the Year 2000 issue with "Y2K" solutions...isn't this the kind of thinking that got us into trouble in the first place?
  • odysseyeliteodysseyelite Member Posts: 504 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Shanman wrote: »
    I am currently taking the CCENT on Wed and feel I am ready. I have one more year for my BS in network security. I am planning on going through all the way to CCNP but now I am unsure. My friend that is a software engineer from SF is in town and just told me that doing so is a waste of time unless you are in a big company. According to him "the network is solved" and automation is the key. He told me out there he knows CCNPs and they are just low level techs. He said this would have made more sense in the late 90's when the infrastructure was being built. Now it is all mobile app development. He keeps pushing me and telling me that programming is the way to go. Can somebody please tell me I have not wasted almost 4 years of my life and thousands of dollars to become a network engineer. I really enjoy Cisco and labbing in my basement, but I know there are a lot smarter networking people out there then me. Will the job market remain or is he right?

    Programming does not come as natural to me as networking icon_sad.gif

    I know I would have made alot more money if I had stayed programming but I did not like it very much. There are still jobs for Cisco guys. I am on the track now. You may need to also do some system admin work as well because in small companies they are the one and the same person.

    In larger companies, there are separate duties. I forsee there being a demand for network engineers that learn IP6. We have asked Cisco, Aruba and some of our vendors and everyone is in the dark on how to do it.

    As for CCNP's doing entry level jobs that all depends on their experiance. Don't expect to have no work history but have the cert and be making huge amounts of dough. You need both.
    Currently reading: Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action
  • PC509PC509 CISSP, CEH, CCNA: Security/CyberOps, Sec+, CHFI, A+, Proj+, Server+, MCITP Win7, Vista, MCP Server 2 Oregon, USMember Posts: 802 ■■■■■■□□□□
    The whole infrastructure is built?! Dammit. I missed my window of opportunity. How'd they finish everything so quick? When did we upgrade from 10Mb? There are always upgrades to the infrastructure, maintenance, new builds, new companies, redesigns, and on and on. Your CCNP would be valuable. Maybe not in his location, but there are places where an MCSE/MCITP would be worthless - or even a MS in IT Security... Depends on where you are and what the needs are. If his neighborhood is already wired in 10Gb fiber to the door, then there may not be much of a need (Although the wiring is usually not done my the one that configures the routers, unless its a smaller company) for CCNP's at the time. But, if 100Mb or even 1Gb is standard, there will be an upgrade eventually.

    I'd say go for it. If you enjoy it, get it. You'll use it!
  • CCIEWANNABECCIEWANNABE Banned Posts: 465
    not really sure what he is talking about. Does he think that networks just appear out of thin air? Even existing networks need CCNP's and other highly training engineers to help with network upgrades/transitions. Let me guess, he thinks Al Gore created the interwebs too?
  • NOC-NinjaNOC-Ninja Member Posts: 1,403
    Lol @ your friend that thinks he can install or config a network with double click.
  • alan2308alan2308 CISSP, MCSA 2008, MCSA 2012, CCNA R&S, CCNA Security Ann Arbor, MIMember Posts: 1,854 ■■■■■■■■□□
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! That is all.


    Glad to hear that I've wasted the last few years of my life. icon_cool.gif
  • it_consultantit_consultant Member Posts: 1,903
    CCNP's who are unwilling to fill other positions (some sysadmin etc) find themselves as low level techs. Unless you work for a carrier then a dedicated CCNP who only works on network hardware is usually not necessary for a lot of networks. If the ONLY thing you want to do is work on Cisco hardware then you should work for an ISP.
  • xenodamusxenodamus Member Posts: 758
    The network is most definiitely not "solved". icon_lol.gif

    Our team supports a nationwide infrastructure of 5000 network devices for a government agency and we have plenty to do....

    There are always devices that fail, maintenance to do, upgrades to plan and implement. The CCNP would not be wasted time. There are jobs out there if you're willing to work your way up.
    CISSP | CCNA:R&S/Security | MCSA 2003 | A+ S+ | VCP6-DTM | CCA-V CCP-V
  • MAC_AddyMAC_Addy Member Posts: 1,740 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Hmm.. Go onto careerbuilder.com and search CCNP, see what comes up. I think some companies would hire CCNP's in a heartbeat.

    Speaking of that, this is the real world... stuff breaks, things go wrong, people unplug cables.... I don't think an automated system could fix that. True experience will help you solve many things.
    2017 Certification Goals:
    CCNP R/S
  • nhan.ngnhan.ng Member Posts: 184
    First of all, I wouldn't take advise from a software developer when it comes to hardware related stuff. No offense pple icon_lol.gif

    How big of a company that your friend work in? For all we know, they probably have all smart switches running on their network, hence the term "automation" lol icon_lol.gif No matter how good a device is, it will break/fail at some point....And no they wont be able to repair themselves, we're not there yet icon_lol.gif:D

    Cisco is hard, why you think they all those network engineers/consultants big bucks....Keep up with your study, dont be discourage by what your friend said, he obviously have no idea what he talking about. Spend sometime on dice/careerbuilder/indeed/monster and look up CCNP specific job, and see what we're talking about.
  • SlowhandSlowhand MCSE: Cloud Platform and Infrastructure / Core Infrastructure, MCSA: Windows Server 2003/2012/2016 Bay Area, CaliforniaMod Posts: 5,161 Mod
    Hmm. . . by that logic, programming's "been solved" for quite a while now, too. After all, we've been able to drag and drop objects without writing a line of code with modern IDE's for a while. It's getting simpler and simpler every day to create everything from web sites, databases, to even fully-realized stand-alone apps with WYSIWYG dev tools like Visual Studio, the (formerly) Borland suites, Eclipse, etc.

    And, for the record, I know people with graduate degrees in Computer Science that are working entry-level coding jobs. . . given, it's because they have no experience and they got jobs in highly competitive industries. . . but those are just petty details. As long as I make my own job look good and his bad, right? icon_wink.gif

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  • gouki2005gouki2005 Member Posts: 197
    Slowhand wrote: »
    Hmm. . . by that logic, programming's "been solved" for quite a while now, too. After all, we've been able to drag and drop objects without writing a line of code with modern IDE's for a while. It's getting simpler and simpler every day to create everything from web sites, databases, to even fully-realized stand-alone apps with WYSIWYG dev tools like Visual Studio, the (formerly) Borland suites, Eclipse, etc.

    And, for the record, I know people with graduate degrees in Computer Science that are working entry-level coding jobs. . . given, it's because they have no experience and they got jobs in highly competitive industries. . . but those are just petty details. As long as I make my own job look good and his bad, right? icon_wink.gif
    I know these days for example ANYONE can make a webpage theres not such thing a WebDesigner job you must know PHP or JAVA if you want have a chance in the job market back then you could make a lot of money with 3-5 web pages with a few static links but today it must have Animations , Dynamic , Ready for mobile devices and you barely will make some money
  • Panzer919Panzer919 Member Posts: 462
    Shanman wrote: »
    According to him "the network is solved" and automation is the key.
    confused.png and he would know this because....? Sorry but that statement just made my head hurt. Lets see him "automate" a multiprotocol environment with redistribution, ACL's, QoS, and voice. How would automation deal with a routing loop due to a software bug?

    Unless you work for a carrier then a dedicated CCNP who only works on network hardware is usually not necessary for a lot of networks. If the ONLY thing you want to do is work on Cisco hardware then you should work for an ISP.

    Or a company that is a dedicated Cisco shop. CCNA/CCNP/CCIE or anyone who knows networking is an asset to any company. Even if you design a network from the ground up and try to cover all your bases, something will always come up. Software bugs, hardware failures, upgrades, Firewall changes, something.

    Don't get discouraged, keep up with your labs and your studies and you will be fine. There may even come a day when your friend builds a application and when it doesn't work and they try to blame it on the network, you can reverse engineer what is really going on and prove he is FOS icon_cheers.gif
    Cisco Brat Blog

    I think “very senior” gets stuck in there because the last six yahoos that applied for the position couldn’t tell a packet from a Snickers bar.

    Luck is where opportunity and proper planning meet

    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
    Thomas A. Edison
  • bigmantenorbigmantenor Member Posts: 233
    Panzer919 wrote: »
    Don't get discouraged, keep up with your labs and your studies and you will be fine. There may even come a day when your friend builds a application and when it doesn't work and they try to blame it on the network, you can reverse engineer what is really going on and prove he is FOS icon_cheers.gif

    I lol'd pretty good at this :). Don't sweat what your friend is saying, he doesn't even work in our field. If you chase what interests you, I believe that everything else will work itself out.
  • Panzer919Panzer919 Member Posts: 462
    I lol'd pretty good at this :). Don't sweat what your friend is saying, he doesn't even work in our field. If you chase what interests you, I believe that everything else will work itself out.

    It has happened to me on more than one occasion, I never get tired of proving them wrong either icon_wink.gif
    Cisco Brat Blog

    I think “very senior” gets stuck in there because the last six yahoos that applied for the position couldn’t tell a packet from a Snickers bar.

    Luck is where opportunity and proper planning meet

    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
    Thomas A. Edison
  • pitviperpitviper CCNP:Collaboration, CCNP:R&S, CCNA:S, CCNA:V, CCNA, CCENT Member Posts: 1,376 ■■■■■■■□□□
    I love this – like the network is some self-sustaining element of the corporate world run by machines. The automobile has been "solved" too – Dare your friend to buy a new car and never take it in for oil changes/maintenance! :)
    CCNP:Collaboration, CCNP:R&S, CCNA:S, CCNA:V, CCNA, CCENT
  • cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior Member Mod Posts: 6,926 Mod
    There's always a "friend" who has all the answers and knows what the right path for you is. His logic is so flawed that I don't even know where to start. I don't doubt that he knows CCNP types who are currently doing help desk or McDonalds. Some people just suck at selling themselves and are usually the ones complaining that IT sucks.

    BTW, tell that "friend" programming is what people who don't understand networking do. icon_smile.gif (Note: this comment is for his "friend", not for all programmers).
  • it_consultantit_consultant Member Posts: 1,903
    pitviper wrote: »
    I love this – like the network is some self-sustaining element of the corporate world run by machines. The automobile has been "solved" too – Dare your friend to buy a new car and never take it in for oil changes/maintenance! :)

    If you drive a Honda or VW this is not a problem icon_smile.gif
  • ShanmanShanman Member Posts: 223
    Thank you for the encouragement. It is nice to hear I have not wasted all this time and money. I am a network technician with two years of experience. I love networking and I don't want to do anything else. Is comment just made me second guess my career choice. He makes a lot of money and works for high profile companies. I just don't enjoy programming like I do with networking. Again thank you all so much for giving me the lift I needed to continue with goals of becoming a network engineer. The ccnp is in my sight and will have it no matter what!
  • ShanmanShanman Member Posts: 223
    My grammar sucks when I type on this iPad...lol
  • Panzer919Panzer919 Member Posts: 462
    Shanman wrote: »
    Thank you for the encouragement. It is nice to hear I have not wasted all this time and money. I am a network technician with two years of experience. I love networking and I don't want to do anything else. Is comment just made me second guess my career choice. He makes a lot of money and works for high profile companies. I just don't enjoy programming like I do with networking. Again thank you all so much for giving me the lift I needed to continue with goals of becoming a network engineer. The ccnp is in my sight and will have it no matter what!

    icon_thumright.gif Keep up what your doing and I'm sure your status will eclipse his, then you can tell him he should have gone into networking, because programing has been solved, automation was the key! icon_thumright.gif
    Cisco Brat Blog

    I think “very senior” gets stuck in there because the last six yahoos that applied for the position couldn’t tell a packet from a Snickers bar.

    Luck is where opportunity and proper planning meet

    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
    Thomas A. Edison
  • ShanmanShanman Member Posts: 223
    :) thanks again everybody. I love this form!
  • cxzar20cxzar20 Member Posts: 168
    Your friend is a fool, the demand for network professionals has never been stronger. If you have a good combination of education, experience, and certifications then you will have no problem finding work. Have him take a look at the BLS projects for the career:
    • Employment is projected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations and add 286,600 new jobs over the 2008-18 decade.
    • Excellent job prospects are expected.
    • Workers can enter this field with many different levels of formal education, but relevant computer skills are always needed
    Computer Network, Systems, and Database Administrators
  • ShanmanShanman Member Posts: 223
    What he was referring too is the work place is changing. People are working from home now and the increase of mobile devices and the cloud.

    My thoughts are you still need a network to make it all happen.
  • HypntickHypntick Member Posts: 1,451 ■■■■■■□□□□
    Shanman wrote: »
    What he was referring too is the work place is changing. People are working from home now and the increase of mobile devices and the cloud.

    My thoughts are you still need a network to make it all happen.

    Even the stuff that you work on at home and the cloud runs on network stuff. Someone has to be responsible for all that, that's where IT comes in. icon_cool.gif
    WGU BS:IT Completed June 30th 2012.
    WGU MS:ISA Completed October 30th 2013.
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