Not sure what to do after MCITP:SA

Sykk

Hey guys,

I'm a little unsure what to do after I finish this (Hopefully before December).

I have 2 years experience as a junior network admin, dealing with pretty much everything involved in running a microsoft network running Vmware for a company of several hundred users.

I don't have a degree as it wasn't an option for me to go to college for 4 years.

I plan on moving to Germany next year. Apparently IT managers look for experience more than degree's. However, anywhere I look they want some kind of degree or masters in computer science.

I'm not too sure how these certificates compare to a degree? Would you take someone that has a degree over someone who has 2/3 years experience and is certified by doing study in his/her own time?

I'm slightly worried that no matter how many certifications I have, not having a college degree will be holding me back..

What do you guys think?

QHalo

If you're working in VMware, maybe look there next. By the time you're done with SA you'll be in a position to start learning vSphere 5.

djfunz

If you're planning on moving to Germany, you will need either a Degree or an Ausbildung to work here. I was lucky to have a very good connection within the company to find something. Without education on paper it's very hard to find something here especially as a foreigner. Just a heads up.

Sykk

djfunz wrote: »

If you're planning on moving to Germany, you will need either a Degree or an Ausbildung to work here. I was lucky to have a very good connection within the company to find something. Without education on paper it's very hard to find something here especially as a foreigner. Just a heads up.

This is what concerns me. So they'd prefer a degree over MCITP/CCNA/SQL certified or would they not even consider you without a degree?

djfunz

The system is just different here. I wouldn't go so far as to say nobody here will consider a candidate without a Degree or Ausbildung, it's just very difficult. In Germany one needs "training" to do anything career wise. If you want to be a bread baker or mechanic or anything, that's gonna entail a 3 year Ausbildung. An Ausbildung is Germany's word for formal training in their system of classroom studies and working at the company offering the Ausbildung. You can also bring over a Bachelors Degree from another country, just be ready to go through a rigorous process of translation and approval through the DAAD. (Deutscher Akademischer Austausch Dienst).They tell you which credits are transferable and which ones are not. I hope you can speak German as well because even though most of the software is in English, there's a good chance everyone in the company will still speak German. That means phone calls, E-mails and speaking with co-workers face to face or on an instant messanger like Sametime. It's been one heck of an uphill climb for me but I'm still alive.

Sykk

djfunz wrote: »

The system is just different here. I wouldn't go so far as to say nobody here will consider a candidate without a Degree or Ausbildung, it's just very difficult. In Germany one needs "training" to do anything career wise. If you want to be a bread baker or mechanic or anything, that's gonna entail a 3 year Ausbildung. An Ausbildung is Germany's word for formal training in their system of classroom studies and working at the company offering the Ausbildung. You can also bring over a Bachelors Degree from another country, just be ready to go through a rigorous process of translation and approval through the DAAD. (Deutscher Akademischer Austausch Dienst).They tell you which credits are transferable and which ones are not. I hope you can speak German as well because even though most of the software is in English, there's a good chance everyone in the company will still speak German. That means phone calls, E-mails and speaking with co-workers face to face or on an instant messanger like Sametime. It's been one heck of an uphill climb for me but I'm still alive.

Hmmm... I can speak basic German and I'm starting a course in September. My girlfriend is German and I'm over there quite a bit, she's starting college and we decided the education is better there than in Ireland, hence me moving over!!

I'll go for a degree in open university if I have to (If that's even considered in Deutschland).. Have you any idea who the best people to talk to would be? I don't want to go paying a fortune for a degree if it wouldn't be recognised! Then at the same time I'd like to avoid it if numerous Microsoft, cisco and other certs would be as good!

djfunz

Sykk wrote: »

Hmmm... I can speak basic German and I'm starting a course in September. My girlfriend is German and I'm over there quite a bit, she's starting college and we decided the education is better there than in Ireland, hence me moving over!!

I'll go for a degree in open university if I have to (If that's even considered in Deutschland).. Have you any idea who the best people to talk to would be? I don't want to go paying a fortune for a degree if it wouldn't be recognised! Then at the same time I'd like to avoid it if numerous Microsoft, cisco and other certs would be as good!

Be thankful Ireland is a member the EU. That is a big help right there. Your chances are already better that mine were because of Visas.

Going further however you have two options. Learn German to at least the B1 or B2 level at a Volkshochschule. That's a big help. Take the test at the school as well. Save some money before coming here and look for international companies. With your experience and certs to back you up your chances are better still.

You could also opt for an Ausbildung here. It's paid although not very well and you get experience plus it's recognized in Germany everywhere. It's counted as experience everywhere else.

If money is no option, you could go to a University and get a Degree here but it's not gonna pay money and you'll get little if no work experience.

Sykk

djfunz wrote: »

Be thankful Ireland is a member the EU. That is a big help right there. Your chances are already better that mine were because of Visas.

Going further however you have two options. Learn German to at least the B1 or B2 level at a Volkshochschule. That's a big help. Take the test at the school as well. Save some money before coming here and look for international companies. With your experience and certs to back you up your chances are better still.

You could also opt for an Ausbildung here. It's paid although not very well and you get experience plus it's recognized in Germany everywhere. It's counted as experience everywhere else.

If money is no option, you could go to a University and get a Degree here but it's not gonna pay money and you'll get little if no work experience.

Well by the time I wish to go there (12-18 months) I should have the B1 covered! Since I'll also have 3 years experience by that stage plus a few exams behind me, I'm sincerely hoping a degree won't be the issue.

My wages at the moment aren't particularly great due to employers in Ireland.. They can afford to say "recession, hard times" (even though the company is doing great) so I've not seen a pay rise since I started.

Due to that I'd like to avoid hefty college fees. Do you have a boss or know anyone in an IT management position you could ask what they'd choose between?

3 years server/firewall/network/systems admin experience + MCITP, Virtualization certified

Or

BA in Computer science.

You've already been really helpful

PS: Where abouts in Germany do you work? I here the dialects can be quite confusing

djfunz

Sykk wrote: »

Well by the time I wish to go there (12-18 months) I should have the B1 covered! Since I'll also have 3 years experience by that stage plus a few exams behind me, I'm sincerely hoping a degree won't be the issue.

My wages at the moment aren't particularly great due to employers in Ireland.. They can afford to say "recession, hard times" (even though the company is doing great) so I've not seen a pay rise since I started.

Due to that I'd like to avoid hefty college fees. Do you have a boss or know anyone in an IT management position you could ask what they'd choose between?

3 years server/firewall/network/systems admin experience + MCITP, Virtualization certified

Or

BA in Computer science.

You've already been really helpful

PS: Where abouts in Germany do you work? I here the dialects can be quite confusing

Great idea. The better your German is when you come here the better your chances are to get a job. I can tell you that right off the bat. Really study. I know how hard it is because I've struggled myself to learn the language. It's one of the harder languages in the world that's for sure.

My boss told me that if you have the desire and experience, he would rather have that then someone who just has theory smarts from a college. So you just have to find the right company with the right boss. Like I said, it's not gonna be easy but also not impossible. Stay international because if you ever want to leave the country, your chances are better to stay with the company.

I'm in northern Germany where they speak primarily Hochdeutsch. That's what you'll learn in school as it's the most recognized. In southern Germany the accent is very strong and sometimes hard to understand. It's like somebody from England trying to understand somebody from Texas.

Sykk

Thanks a lot mate. You've been extremely helpful.. I couldn't get answers to these questions anywhere!

djfunz

No problem. Glad I could help. If you have any other questions down the line, feel free to ask. I know how hard it is to find answers.