Joining the military

xenodamus

I have a question for those who have/are serving. I've always had a desire to join the military, but my parents were both opposed to the idea, so my life took another path. I'm now 25, married, and have a successful career in IT. But, I still have those thoughts occasionally and wish that I could have experienced what life in the service has to offer. I'm working as a government contractor, which is what brought on this line of thinking recently. So my question is regarding joining the military with previous experience and skills. Are there any benefits to joining under those circumstances? Would you even be able to work in your area of expertise? How does the money compare to the civilian side?

You can tell that I obviously know nothing about military life. I just wonder if I'm completely crazy for even entertaining the idea.

SteveLord

I would recommend the national guard (since you have a career already). You're better off calling a recruiter and getting all these questions answered, since you know little, but have a lot to ask. Also note, the military is over strength and about to lose money with proposed debt package. Finding slots for whatever it is you want to do might be difficult.

Devilsbane

xenodamus wrote: »

I have a question for those who have/are serving. *I've always had a desire to join the military, but my parents were both opposed to the idea, so my life took another path. I'm now 25, married, and have a successful career in IT. But, I still have those thoughts occasionally and wish that I could have experienced what life in the service has to offer. *I'm working as a government contractor, which is what brought on this line of thinking recently. *So my question is regarding joining the military with previous experience and skills. Are there any benefits to joining under those circumstances? *Would you even be able to work in your area of expertise? How does the money compare to the civilian side?

You can tell that I obviously know nothing about military life. I just wonder if I'm completely crazy for even entertaining the idea.*

You took the words right out of my mouth. I had been wanting to go down that path but was steered away. Now that I'm 22 and have a decent career going I feel the need to join. I don't want to be a career man or anything, but I'm young and able and would like to serve my time as those have before me.

Ideally I'd be doing something with the skills I've obtained in IT. I'm not sure what that really means, but it almost seems wasteful not to tap into that talent. I've spent many hours training to work on computers and none on being the typical soldier so it seems to make the most sense of putting my where I can flourish.

I agree that this question is better suited for a recruiter, but I don't trust them. I can easily see them telling me everything I want to hear so that I sign the line. Then instead of finding myself in a server room to be just another number. I wouldn't call that a deal breaker but I want to know exactly what I'm committing to before I sign anything. Thats why I think asking people who have or are serving is a better choice. Might not know all of the facts, but you can be objective since your job doesn't depend on whether I agree or not.

I think the national guard move would be the best as I could continue my current job, 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year would easily be doable. And if they call my number, my company has a pretty good military leave program where they will pay the difference between the military paycheck and the company paycheck, which would be huge.

What is the typical length of commitment with the National Guard?

SteveLord

The reason I recommend a recruiter, is you can get a general idea pretty quick over the course of a 10min phone call. Then come back here for some further insight.

All military enlistments are 8 years total. Typically in the Guard, its 6 years of drilling (one weekend a month/2 weeks a year) and 2 years on the Inactive Ready Reserve list. I can practically guarantee you that during that time, you will deploy at least once...good chance twice. Your employer cannot fire you because of it either.

There is an IT MOS, called 25B. But I recommend having a backup job....because of the strength issue. The training is going to cover a lot of CompTIA, some Microsoft and some Cisco material. Most that join the guard, do it to do something OTHER than what they do the other 28 days of the month.

If you get a few years under your belt, and REALLY know your stuff..you can go to Warrant Officer school for the IT classification. WOs are basically subject matter experts in the military. Not all are chopper pilots. But again, slotting you for it might be hard.

Devilsbane

SteveLord wrote: »

There is an IT MOS, called 25B. But I recommend having a backup job....because of the strength issue. The training is going to cover a lot of CompTIA, some Microsoft and some Cisco material. Most that join the guard, do it to do something OTHER than what they do the other 28 days of the month.

I'd prefer to work with the technology, exposing yourself to a different environment can really open your eyes. It is way too easy to get stuck in the same loop for the simple reason of that is how you did it yesterday. Seeing a different way of accomplishing the same thing could help to end the poor processes that exist because someone implemented them 10 years ago.

SteveLord

National Guard Jobs: home Go there, search for 25B for your state.

(By the way, if you have any health or legal issues...chances of getting in are slim to none. Another thing...that you need to ask a recruiter about.)

eansdad

Biggest issue you will have is taking off for basic training. While law makes it so you can not be fired for being called to deploy they do not have to hold your job if you enlist during employment. In other words if you go reserve/guard you most likely will lose your current job.

Benefits would be college, certs paid for. Always have a roof over your head and healthcare. Retirement after 20 years of service is a nice plus also.

Down side would be moving ever 3-4 years, sometimes to places you don't want to be. Oversees deployments without family (Korea) or deployed to a war zone. Pay isn't bad after awhile but it does take some getting used to.

All in all if I was able I'd rejoin in a heartbeat. I liked it but my wife would most definitely leave me if I did.

SteveLord

eansdad wrote: »

Biggest issue you will have is taking off for basic training. While law makes it so you can not be fired for being called to deploy they do not have to hold your job if you enlist during employment. In other words if you go reserve/guard you most likely will lose your current job.
.

That is incorrect. There is a group called the ESGR and a law called USERRA.

USERRA FAQ

An employer must not deny initial employment, reemployment, retention in employment, promotion, or any benefit of employment to an individual on the basis of his or her membership, application for membership, performance of service, application for service, or obligation for service in the uniformed services.

Allegations of violation alone would make it's way to the media quick. Nobody likes bad press...especially this kind.

Mrock4

Not many benefits going in as an experienced IT guy. I loved my 7 yrs in (just got out 2 weeks ago!), but the worst thing about IT in the military is often you'll have someone in a senior technical role, who knows nothing..but they have to be there because they wear a higher rank. In other words, skill has a lower merit when it's compared to rank.

I'd still recommend the guard/reserves highly, however. You might join and decide to do 20..you don't know. And it has been done! Two friends who people swore would get out..both stayed in.

If you go guard/reserves, I'd also do something different than your full-time gig to change it up, but that's my $.02.

erpadmin

eansdad wrote: »

All in all if I was able I'd rejoin in a heartbeat. I liked it but my wife would most definitely leave me if I did.

My fiancee is very anti-military too. Otherwise, I would seriously consider military after graduation. Mind you, I'd take a huge pay cut, but to serve my country and start out as a Specialist (with a shot at OCS to boot) would be pretty ok for me. Not to mention, it's an easy way to earn Clearance.

I took the ASVAB twice; once for the Navy and one for the Marines. I had my heart set on being a Marine, but my parents were giving me crap and they forced me to not serve. But like you guys, I have always wanted to do it and have nothing but respect for our servicemen and women.

(deep sigh.....)

Devilsbane

eansdad wrote: »

I liked it but my wife would most definitely leave me if I did.

My long time girlfriend had the same mentality, and I really couldn't blame her. Wouldn't be easy being involved and yet not involved at the same time.

But that ship has sailed, which is part of the reason that the thoughts have started spinning again. I know it wouldn't be easy, but nothing worthwhile is. In just a few years I could learn more things than I could normally. I've heard good and bad things, but just like Eansdad said, most of them say they would do it again. Put in your time as a young man and then walk away with all of the wisdom and experience that it gave. Good for the resume as well.

Devilry

I would never go into the guard, personally. I have friends and family in both of the guards, they have been deployed at least 18 out of every 30 months for the past decade.

If you want to look into something I think is appealing, check out the coat guard or CG reserve, no deployments there, all of them are voluntary. They are a DOT agency, not DOD, believe it or not. They have a wonderful quality of life.

In response to the person who said if you have legal or health issues the guard wont let you in, that is not accurate according to my knowledge. I have a friend in with multiple felony convictions prior to enlistment, and know plenty of folks with health issues. I do know asthma is an automatic NO for any service. CG does not issue waivers, for your info.

SteveLord

Devilry wrote: »

I would never go into the guard, personally. I have friends and family in both of the guards, they have been deployed at least 18 out of every 30 months for the past decade.
.

Ah, gotta love hearsay against facts. This doesn't apply to all. It's more common for units to be at home no less than 2 years between deployments. And since no one has a crystal ball, it could even be longer.

Deployment is part of the military is it not? What else do you expect? That's like taking training courses in IT and whining about having to apply what you learned.

Devilry wrote: »

In response to the person who said if you have legal or health issues the guard wont let you in, that is not accurate according to my knowledge. I have a friend in with multiple felony convictions prior to enlistment, and know plenty of folks with health issues. I do know asthma is an automatic NO for any service. CG does not issue waivers, for your info.

Again, more hearsay. How many years ago was that? If you read what I posted earlier, the military is overstrength. There is a certain number they are allowed to have by law. Why the increase? You can thank the economy for that. Also main reason why bonuses are almost extinct and those that do exist, don't come with much. There are practically no waivers for that stuff anymore. Why? Will they spend more time working with a fresh out of highschool kid in great shape over an older unhealthy person with a rap sheet? You're damn right. Enlistment is not a civil right.

wastedtime

I agree with everything SteveLord said. Also If you are able to I would suggest waiting till the end of the fiscal year to make a decision. Not just due to the DoD funding issue but there may be some new things coming into the IT realm for Army. As far as deployment goes expect to get deployed but it isn't a guarantee. I have meet a lot of people who have never deployed that are indef on there enlistment.

Also with what Devilry said about the coast guard. The coast guard itself doesn't seem that bad but I have heard there are lots of issues getting people trained in a decent amount of time.

Armymanis

ah, your lucky you can join the military. I wanted to but got turned down because of my heart condition and milk allergy. Recruiter said i could not serve. I wanted to be an Infantry man in high school.

myedjo24

Like the many before this post, I'd suggest to enlist in some type of reserve situation. My personal opinion is you should be a Devil Dog, but which branch to join is truely up to you. I was a Sys Admin in the Marines, and those times were some of the best I've had but of course it had it's moments. I worked with lots of interesting technologies in which I wouldn't ever been exposed to which was pretty cool. I currently do contractor work for the AF, and people in the AF really should just be civilians... I don't even count the AF as a military institution. The hard chargers in the AF are more than likely the pilots, which I've never been around but their support peeps such as IT and everything else isn't very appealing to me. My wife is the AF as a medic and their really isn't any unity with her "flight" aka platoon. It's mainly made up of a bunch of individuals and rarely any respect for higher ups. I have a brother who is in the Army as a medic as well, and he seems to like it...he's over in Afghanistan and ever since he saw a little action has been a little gun-ho. My father was in the Navy and he absolutely loved it. He did cryptography and then later became a Seal. My uncle who is currently in the Coast Guard also enjoys it very much. The Coast Guard is also very versatile when it comes to changing your jobs.

Again my recommendations for a guard type deal would be: Marine Reserves, Navy Reserves, Coast Guard Reserves, and then the National Guard or Army Reserves.

Also, as far as considering joing as Active duty...do you currently make more than $3000 a month after taxes (calculated for Jackson, MS (bah+bas+basic pay)? If not I would def consider going Active Duty because of all the other benefits such as medical/dental for your fam. If you make substatially more, then consider the guard/reserve deal.

JDMurray

The National Guard is deployed to help control wild fires during "fire season" here in Southern California. They would also be deployed in the case of Earthquake and Tsunami disasters here too. It's not a pleasant prospect to leave your family during a local disaster because you are being deployed to help people elsewhere, but it can happen.

SephStorm

I wont reiterate what has already been said, but the pay sucks and you have much more opportunities as a civilian. You will get to work with technologies way before I get a chance to. You may find that you want to work on a certain technology, but your section doesnt work on it, or the job isnt even performed by military personnel. (i.e. all civilian contractors).

The desire to serve is great, but realize that military life is a great sacrifice.

tpatt100

The National Guard pre 9/11 is waaaayyyy different than post 9/11. When I joined after the Marines way back it was kind of a mess. I joined a month after I left Camp Pendleton and my first drill I was like "wtf is this mess?"

Years later my unit was called up for Iraq and it was utter chaos. Old timers were launching their retirement paperwork in huge volleys. Sounds of "wait I can't deploy I got such and such issues". It was hilarious. What sucked was we had a bunch of kids fresh out of AIT who got little hands on lead by junior leaders with little hands on because all the old timers who didnt like teaching or sharing bailed on us.

I was in shock because I just got married and I thought the National Guard only deployed if aliens invaded our planet.

But that year the non deployables some at 18 years got the boot. Oh and after we got back? We got the new Signal vehicles which we replaced radios with routers and servers and the few old timers that were left all got out after that. I remember several of them just could not hack the retraining required to stay in because we all had to reclassify to new a new Signal MOS.

And we got downsized BIG TIME. The old MSE companies were 200+ soldiers the new Signal using COTS equipment allowed us to be downsized to 75 total so people were fighting to stay in that wanted to.

N2IT

I wish all you guys and gals well who decided to go that route.

afcyung

The best advice you can be given is go talk to a recruiter. They will be able to answer your questions with factual data.

Bokeh

And remember whatever they tell you, take it as 80% fact. Most will promise you the earth, the moon, the stars to get your signature on the bottom line.

When I went in Air Force many moons ago, I talked to two recruiters, then called a friend who's brother was a recruiter. After listening to him, I could tell the other two were full of BS. I knew what I was getting myself into, and I enjoyed my time in (10 yrs).

The medical is good, pay is so so, the education benefits are excellent. I got to see the world at Uncle Sam's expense (Philippines, Japan, England). I had three deployments during my time in - Korea, Honduras, and Saudi Arabia.

The people I worked with were top notch, and we were a true team.

It all boils down to if that lifestyle fits you. No one forces you to join, and odds are there wont be a draft again. If you have a spouse or significant other, it is a decision that must be made by both parties.

Like others have said, if you have a great job and just have the desire to serve, then the reserves or national guard for any branch would be the way to go. If however, you are looking for more than what you currently have, then the military is a good stepping stone.

advanex1

I would suggest stay with your civilian career. I'm currently an Army Sergeant and have no intention of staying in when I get done in 3 more years. That will put me as a Staff Sergeant by the time my 6 years are up. While the military has it's ups and decent pay while deployed, the amount of BS you deal with compared to the civilian sector is 10 fold. I currently support the communications of a General and I can tell you, it's not my dream job. The training that you would get in the military in regards to commo or IT is not near as good as you can get just by taking some certification tests and getting your associates or bachelors. Employers don't seem to look at it any more highly. You already have the main job source that most military go to after they are done with being in the military. Contractors/contracting is the way to go and to stay... as long as there is a war going on.. heh.

I'm currently deployed to Iraq, hopefully this helps you. I'm not anti-military, I do love my job some days, but it's not worth the strain on you or your family.. .especially your family.

ramirer

SteveLord wrote: »

The reason I recommend a recruiter, is you can get a general idea pretty quick over the course of a 10min phone call. Then come back here for some further insight.

All military enlistments are 8 years total. Typically in the Guard, its 6 years of drilling (one weekend a month/2 weeks a year) and 2 years on the Inactive Ready Reserve list. I can practically guarantee you that during that time, you will deploy at least once...good chance twice. Your employer cannot fire you because of it either.

There is an IT MOS, called 25B. But I recommend having a backup job....because of the strength issue. The training is going to cover a lot of CompTIA, some Microsoft and some Cisco material. Most that join the guard, do it to do something OTHER than what they do the other 28 days of the month.

If you get a few years under your belt, and REALLY know your stuff..you can go to Warrant Officer school for the IT classification. WOs are basically subject matter experts in the military. Not all are chopper pilots. But again, slotting you for it might be hard.

I had a whole bunch of friends in the Guard while I was in WY. The one weird thing they all said but I never believed was how many people were actually trying to go over seas but didn't go. They actually had to compete for the chance to go.

I almost joined myself but my body fat was like 2% over what it should be.

Blackout

One thing you need to look at right now is that the government is doing huge cutbacks atm. The military is being affected by this. When I first joined the navy it was the most secure job on the planet you had to do something stupid to get booted. Now the navy is actively downsizing. If you are already secure in the civilian sector I suggest staying there, the next 3-4 years will not be a good time in the military. The navy intends to cut another 6000 sailors be the end of the fiscal year, that would be the same amount of people that populate a nuclear powered aircraft carrier.

spicy ahi

Yeah it'll be tough to join any branch of service in these times. I am in the Air National Guard and I am also a civilian contractor for the Army. On both sides, I see a mass exodus occurring. Many in the active duty forces are being let go for disqualifying reasons that weren't issues a few years ago, and others are seeing this as the tell tale sign that a mass draw down is nearing and as they're hitting their re-enlistment date, are turning more and more to the reserves and guard to continue their service. At the same time, a lot of the higher ranking folks in the guard are facing more scrutiny when they go up for their review boards (after 20, you have to go through a review board to determine whether or not the guard should retain you) and the boards are tough. In my unit alone, 2 Sr. NCO's were denied re-enlistment and so a lot of the others coming up are deciding to retire instead of going through the BS reviews (as the writing seems to be on the wall as well) So if you really want to join, you've got to make sure you have high qualifying scores and are in peak physical condition. And even then you may face a long wait unless you're willing to meet "the needs of the military." Hate to be a Debbie Downer, but the reality is we're hurting at all levels. I'm not confident about my job status either; there have been rumblings that there may be rollbacks on contracts as well. So my advice is if you're not in the military scene and/or you're in a situation where you're making it, then go ahead and stay there. Joining local or national volunteer organizations like the the Salvation Army or Habitat for Humanity are just as noble. I've done a few volunteer weekends with Habitat, and I have been as proud of that service as my military service. Either way, I applaud and encourage you to pursue your call to service.

2E151

JDMurray wrote: »

The National Guard is deployed to help control wild fires during "fire season" here in Southern California. They would also be deployed in the case of Earthquake and Tsunami disasters here too. It's not a pleasant prospect to leave your family during a local disaster because you are being deployed to help people elsewhere, but it can happen.

Not true for the Air National Guard, atleast for the Signal units. We might be called to provide some signal services, but not fill sandbags or fight fires. In my experience they typically call other units (specifically Civil Engineering units) from unaffected states so that those in the affected areas can deal with their personal issues.

It's about serving a higher purpose. Everyone wants it to be someone else's husband or son; my mother was no different and my spouse isn't happy about the deployments I did.

For me, besides the honor of serving, joining the Air National Guard was the single best career decision of my life. My experience directly led to a job making 65K, and now I make much more than that. I'm an E-6 with 13 years left until I lock in a pension, I bring home about 350 a month for my drill check and get highly discounted health insurance (180 for my family). I love what I do; good benefits, great training, and I'm able to give back to my community.

JDMurray

2E151 wrote: »

Not true for the Air National Guard, atleast for the Signal units. We might be called to provide some signal services, but not fill sandbags or fight fires. In my experience they typically call other units (specifically Civil Engineering units) from unaffected states so that those in the affected areas can deal with their personal issues.

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking about the "boots on the ground" National Guard that the media reports on when half of SoCal is on fire.

Do all types of National Guard units get called for service in places like Iraq and Afghanistan?

brad-

I have done both National Guard and Active Duty. IRL i do IT, but in the military i was infantry.

Since you're already an IT guy, you may want to think about doing something in the combat arms only the military has...ie, no civilian counterpart. Yes, you can find a Commo/IT related MOS, but let me tell you...when you meet people you think have a "cooler" job, you may have second thoughts. As a national guard guy, i started out in the supply room. I met a few guys that had done jump school, and i reclassed to infantry, did 17 weeks basic/ait/jump, and went active duty. It didnt take long for me to then realize that the grass is always greener...but ive been out for 10 years now and i am happy with what it did for me, and i wouldnt be where i am today without it.

First, figure out what you want your job to be. There may not be a NG/Reserve unit around you with that slot.

After you know what you want to do, decide if active duty or 1 weekend is right for you.

If you decide on the military, get yourself in shape before you even go...dont count on basic to get you into shape or you will have a harder time all the way around. If your physical ability is good, everything will come much easier. You should be running 2 miles for time, pushups, situps for 2 minutes...and assistance work to improve those as well. You should also look up the height/weight scale. For me as a 6 foot tall male, i think my max weight could have been like 190 IIR...or they have to do a body fat test.

Overall, i always recommend military if you're willing to put in max effort and not just looking for a paycheck. Oh, and dont do drugs.

eansdad

SteveLord wrote: »

That is incorrect. There is a group called the ESGR and a law called USERRA.

USERRA FAQ

Allegations of violation alone would make it's way to the media quick. Nobody likes bad press...especially this kind.

I never read the USERRA and interesting that our contract violates it. Something I will be bringing up as a few people had expressed over the years a desire to join while being employeed here.

Learn something new everyday.

2E151

JDMurray wrote: »

I was thinking about the "boots on the ground" National Guard that the media reports on when half of SoCal is on fire.

Yeah the ARNG is a completely different beast. I've seen Intel Analysts in the Army Guard filling sandbags before and I've seen generator mechanics in charge of SATCOM terminals simply because they're the only Sergeant on hand. They really don't care about your job specialty.

JDMurray wrote: »

Do all types of National Guard units get called for service in places like Iraq and Afghanistan?

I can't speak for the Army National Guard, but with the Air National Guard it really depends on your job. I know certain squadrons that haven't seen an activation since Desert Storm, then there are mobile communications squadrons like mine that are sending people to those places every year.

But even then most Air Guard units don't deploy on a large scale unless their a medical or aerial squadron. Instead of the entire unit they might need to fill 35 slots down range so instead of involuntarily sending people they ask for volunteers.

My unit has been sending 20 or 30 folks down range every year since 2001 but hasn't had an involuntary activation since right after 9/11.

In the Air Guard you should typically expect to deploy once every 3 to 4 years for anywhere from 3 to 6 months. This could be to Egypt for a joint exercise or Iraq to support combat operations.