Earning more with a CCNP

Computer idiot

I've been working at networking positions since '08 and I recently moved into my current job with a new employer four months ago at $50k a year. I just do routing and switching (with some firewall configurations) and have a CCNA, but I'm wanting to get my NP; not because I'm in love with it, but because my family is nearing bankruptcy and I need more income, and I figured that this would be a move in the right direction. I know it can take the better part of a year to pass the three tests, but I'm wondering if - doing the same job as before, but now having an NP in my pocket instead of an NA - my employer would move my salary up as I hope he would, or just give a job-well-done slap on the back and keep my salary the same. My coworker there, a senior network engineer, worked for four years before getting a job raise and new title

Since by the time I hopefully got my NP I would have been at my current job for a year with 3+ years experience in networking, I would hope to be making $60k a year by then, assuming I'm doing good work at a CCNP level. Am I being unrealistic with these salary expectations?

DPG

wrote:

...I just do routing and switching (with some firewall configurations) and have a CCNA, but I'm wanting to get my NP; not because I'm in love with it, ...

This could be a problem.

Have you discussed this with your employer? Would you be more valuable to your company if you had a CCNP?

NOC-Ninja

Do what you gotta do but not loving what you do like learning CCNP will bite you in the ass sooner or later. You have to find your passion. If CCNP or networking is not your passion then its going to be harder to learn.

Anyhow, Im sure you will find a better job if you get CCNP. I get emails all the time because of my NP. The contractor usually offers $45/hr. Also, I see lots of NP's that are making 80k-and up.

Computer idiot

DPG wrote: »

This could be a problem.

Have you discussed this with your employer? Would you be more valuable to your company if you had a CCNP?

Nope. I wouldn't be more valuable with an NP that I'm aware of.

Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity to learn anything different. I'd love to pursue something I'm in love with, but I have neither the time or money to do that, as I'm older and with a family that has bills to pay right now.

I would advise you to learn what you love now while you have the opportunity to do so - before you're locked in with whatever you've got.

instant000

You've been doing this since '08. Are you saying you haven't liked what you're doing for the past couple years?

Actually, I like this stuff, but I'm not the guy you see at work preaching about it, just because it's kinda annoying, the same way people who bring up their war stories at work get annoying

I have no idea of what to tell you, if you feel like you don't like what you're doing.

Try these videos, they might help:

‪CISCO GOD‬‏ - YouTube

^^^ "A little overkill but I like it, that's what I do" -- Jeremy Ciora, referring to his home networking setup.

‪Jeremy Cioara impression‬‏ - YouTube

^^^ "You just want to lick it" --- Jeremy Ciora, referring to a picture of neat cabling.

Bl8ckr0uter

Computer idiot wrote: »

...but I'm wanting to get my NP; not because I'm in love with it....

DPG wrote: »

This could be a problem.

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Do what you gotta do but not loving what you do like learning CCNP will bite you in the ass sooner or later. You have to find your passion. If CCNP or networking is not your passion then its going to be harder to learn.

Yea I am calling bullshit on those two posts. I have no idea why people think that if you don't love IT (or anything) that it's a problem. You do not have to be passionate about your work in order to be good or great at your job. If you are needing money, that is a perfect motivating factor. I don't understand why people think that. This isn't sesame street. Everybody doesn't have a job they "love"* or have wanted to do since birth. Some people have fallen into careers and now just want to pay their bills.

To the OP, I think CCNP will make you more valuable. I don't know where you are but there have been plenty of CCNP/CCVP/CCSP jobs that pay well over 60k, if you have the right knowledge, skills and experience. Perhaps you need to branch off and build another skillset besides R/S. Maybe CCNP and another Associate or professional level cert such as CCDP or CCNP:S. Also doing some consulting will help build your skills and bring in more income. Have you considered doing some SMB consulting or contracting out to do some configurations on the side?

* You really shouldn't love anything that can't love you back anyway.

ehnde

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Yea I am calling bullshit on those two posts. I have no idea why people think that if you don't love IT (or anything) that it's a problem. You do not have to be passionate about your work in order to be good or great at your job. If you are needing money, that is a perfectly motivating factor. I don't understand why people think that. This isn't sesame street. Everybody doesn't have a job they "love"* or have wanted to do since birth. Some people have fallen into careers and now just want to pay their bills.

To the OP, I think CCNP will make you more valuable. I don't know where you are but there have been plenty of CCNP/CCVP/CCSP jobs that pay well over 60k, if you have the right knowledge, skills and experience. Perhaps you need to branch off and build another skillset besides R/S. Maybe CCNP and another Associate or professional level cert such as CCDP or CCNP:S. Also doing some consulting will help build your skills and bring in more income. Have you considered doing some SMB consulting or contracting out to do some configurations on the side?

* You really shouldn't love anything that can't love you back anyway.

Agreed, there isn't much that is more miserable than approaching poverty to the point that you are thinking about bankruptcy. Also I recently read an article about how our generation (born in the late 70s - 1990) has been coddled by our parents into believing we can be & do anything and never getting a taste of failure.

While the article I mentioned isn't exclusively true for everyone born in the late 70s and the 80s, did you get a trophy when you "graduated" from kindergarten? I did

Enjoying your life via vacations, a nice retirement, going out to eat whenever you feel like it, etc are luxuries. When I was a kid I thought all of this stuff would "just happen". Boy was I wrong. Work hard and be an asset to your employer(s)...just maybe those things will come to you.

instant000

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Yea I am calling bullshit on those two posts. I have no idea why people think that if you don't love IT (or anything) that it's a problem. You do not have to be passionate about your work in order to be good or great at your job. If you are needing money, that is a perfectly motivating factor. I don't understand why people think that. This isn't sesame street. Everybody doesn't have a job they "love"* or have wanted to do since birth.

I was trying to find a video I saw one time of Jeremy Ciora, where he said that he fell in love with Cisco, after he put a lot of struggles into studying it and acquiring the knowledge. I believe that he particularly said that he hated voice, and wanted nothing to do with it, but certified in it, and then he loved it.

I mean to say, I can look back to my time served in the military, and sitting there in foxhole in basic training getting eaten up by mosquitoes while my battle buddy is snoozing and never getting up to relieve me, didn't particularly love that moment, but overall, I did love my military experience. I didn't particularly like having to deal with soldiers who wanted to act like kids (some of them were barely 18, who can blame them), or wearing 40 pounds of gear in a 120 degree desert, but looking back, I can actually say that I LOVED that experience, and had plenty of great times.

I said all of that to say this: It just may be that you have to hit that grind, and you come to a point that the original poster actually does "love it".

I believe that if you put so much time and energy into something, you will develop a special relationship, hopefully, one of love, and not hate

I feel that the Jeremy Ciora example is so pointed, as, you can see from the previous links posted, he has lots of passion for Cisco! I believe the "falling in love" I saw a coworker talking about it for CCNA:Security. If you ever study that one, look at that video. If you have Nuggest streaming subscription, then look up that video, just to get the "falling in love" monologue from Jeremy. He does it when talking about the certification pyramid of Cisco, and the "CCNA Powerhouse".

networker050184

Computer idiot wrote: »

I've been working at networking positions since '08 and I recently moved into my current job with a new employer four months ago at $50k a year. I just do routing and switching (with some firewall configurations) and have a CCNA, but I'm wanting to get my NP; not because I'm in love with it, but because my family is nearing bankruptcy and I need more income, and I figured that this would be a move in the right direction. I know it can take the better part of a year to pass the three tests, but I'm wondering if - doing the same job as before, but now having an NP in my pocket instead of an NA - my employer would move my salary up as I hope he would, or just give a job-well-done slap on the back and keep my salary the same. My coworker there, a senior network engineer, worked for four years before getting a job raise and new title

Since by the time I hopefully got my NP I would have been at my current job for a year with 3+ years experience in networking, I would hope to be making $60k a year by then, assuming I'm doing good work at a CCNP level. Am I being unrealistic with these salary expectations?

If you stay at the same job and aren't bringing anything extra to the table by earning a CCNP then you probably will just get a slap on the back. Usually people need to change jobs, or at least positions at the same employer, to get a 10k bump.

Your salary expectations aren't off though depending on your location. You should be able to hit $60k with three to four years of experience and a CCNP. A lot depends on the job market and other factors of course.

CCIEWANNABE

think about where you see yourself in 3-5 years. Do you want to be a senior engineer? Do you want to run your own business?

The people that often succeed in life are those that ask and answer these tough questions. They are also the people that put in the long hours at work and at home studying. Like many have point out in this thread, we grew up in an era of handouts and alot of people that grew up in the 80's/90's are now seeing how hard it really is to "be successful" in life.

The most important thing is having a roadmap of what you want to do. What are you going to do with the CCNP? Why do you want it? There are alot of people getting the CCNP, so ask yourself how do I stand out from those people? What can get me the job raise or different job? You need to try and bring skills to the table that others cannot, you must stand out from others. Get multiple certs, not just in Cisco, but in Juniper, Microsoft, VMWare.

It amazes me how many small businesses there are that are successful out there. I mean just drive around your city and ask yourself the question "Who started that business?" You will be amazed to find out its people just like you and me.

One of the problems with our generation is laziness. There are so many talented people out there, but no one puts any of their ideas to the test. You have to have some trial and error.

There is no gain without sacrifice....

NOC-Ninja

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Yea I am calling bullshit on those two posts. I have no idea why people think that if you don't love IT (or anything) that it's a problem. You do not have to be passionate about your work in order to be good or great at your job. If you are needing money, that is a perfect motivating factor. I don't understand why people think that. This isn't sesame street. Everybody doesn't have a job they "love"* or have wanted to do since birth. Some people have fallen into careers and now just want to pay their bills.

To the OP, I think CCNP will make you more valuable. I don't know where you are but there have been plenty of CCNP/CCVP/CCSP jobs that pay well over 60k, if you have the right knowledge, skills and experience. Perhaps you need to branch off and build another skillset besides R/S. Maybe CCNP and another Associate or professional level cert such as CCDP or CCNP:S. Also doing some consulting will help build your skills and bring in more income. Have you considered doing some SMB consulting or contracting out to do some configurations on the side?

* You really shouldn't love anything that can't love you back anyway.

Sure anybody can go for whatever they are not passionate about but are they happy compare to the guy that loves what his doing or miserable?

Example:
Guy 1 - doesnt like cisco but wants ccnp
studies hard but gives up because he doesnt loves what his doing


Guy 2 - loves networking/cisco
studies hard and will sit hours and hours to learn and understand. He is happy everytime he reads and understands the technology. he is at peace.


Ive bumped into guys that doesnt like/love networking/cisco. I see them miserable everyday at work and doesnt want to learn more about technology. furthermore, They suck at troubleshooting!

pham0329

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Yea I am calling bullshit on those two posts. I have no idea why people think that if you don't love IT (or anything) that it's a problem. You do not have to be passionate about your work in order to be good or great at your job. If you are needing money, that is a perfect motivating factor. I don't understand why people think that. This isn't sesame street. Everybody doesn't have a job they "love"* or have wanted to do since birth. Some people have fallen into careers and now just want to pay their bills.

To the OP, I think CCNP will make you more valuable. I don't know where you are but there have been plenty of CCNP/CCVP/CCSP jobs that pay well over 60k, if you have the right knowledge, skills and experience. Perhaps you need to branch off and build another skillset besides R/S. Maybe CCNP and another Associate or professional level cert such as CCDP or CCNP:S. Also doing some consulting will help build your skills and bring in more income. Have you considered doing some SMB consulting or contracting out to do some configurations on the side?

* You really shouldn't love anything that can't love you back anyway.

I'm not sure if I agree. Sure, you can be good at a job you don't like, but a lot of times, if you don't like doing something, you're not going to put your best effort into it.

I've worked with plenty of people who are in IT because it's stable and you can make some money doing it, but they're generally not very good at their job. They do enough to get by, and that's it. They don't ever go the extra step to get the job done.

Bl8ckr0uter

Logical fallacy for the win.

Look there are more than two options (love it or hate it) and loving it is not the only means to success. Maybe cisco gets you off (which is great) and maybe technology gets you are hot and bothered (which is also great) but for some people IT and CISCO is just a means to an end. That doesn't mean that a person who is ultra passionate about something won't be successful.

Also loving technology <> loving IT. I like technology a lot. I still have the "Oh cool" moments about certain things but I have become slightly jaded on other things. The coolness factor isn't what IT's all about.


I just don't get why people think that because you love something, you will automagically become better skilled or a harder worker than someone who doesn't "love" it. Where is the factual backing for it?

instant000 wrote: »

I said all of that to say this: It just may be that you have to hit that grind, and you come to a point that the original poster actually does "love it".

I believe that if you put so much time and energy into something, you will develop a special relationship, hopefully, one of love, and not hate

I am not even sure what you are saying but ftw record I don't hate IT or Cisco and I would say that I probably made the biggest change in my career status (financially and technically) in my career last month. I haven't hit a grind but I am trying to level set myself mentally. Everyday isn't going to be like ultra l33t hack-a-thon. Sometimes there are sales meeting where people you don't know talk about stuff that doesn't matter to you. That's just the way it works.
Also what the op said about the CCNP (not feeling it) is something I can relate to. Like right now, I am working on learning packet crafting (specifically hping and scapy), reading TCP/IP Illustrated Vol I, the WCNA guide while reading Routing TCP/IP Vol1 in preparation for the CCNP Route exam. If I wanted, I could probably burn though the route cert guides and flg, do some labs and throwup the answers AND my job wouldn't know the difference (hell some of them use brain ****, well most of them do). I could do the same for switch and troubleshot and be a shinny ccnp and feel l337. But I feel like I really need to take some time and focus on the NP part, not just the CC. So I read these books and I have gained a deeper perspective on how little I actually know/was taught. I can honestly say the CC part is a bit boring but the NP is very interesting.

pham0329

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

So I read these books and I have gained a deeper perspective on how little I actually know/was taught. I can honestly say the CC part is a bit boring but the NP is very interesting.

I hear ya...after I finished my CCNA, I thought that, for the most part, I knew what Cisco was all about. Once I started on the CCNP track, you get introduced to so much more, that it's a little depressing thinking about how little you actually know. Then I started looking materials for the CCIE track and it made me want to cry.

Bl8ckr0uter

pham0329 wrote: »

I hear ya...after I finished my CCNA, I thought that, for the most part, I knew what Cisco was all about. Once I started on the CCNP track, you get introduced to so much more, that it's a little depressing thinking about how little you actually know. Then I started looking materials for the CCIE track and it made me want to cry.

I don't mean cisco. I mean networking (tcpip) in general. I am not going to lie, up until a few weeks ago, I didn't really know what a socket was or that there were two ways to do traceroute...

This thread has digressed. Mods feel free to delete or split this off.

cxzar20

bl8ckr0uter, I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Those who say that you need to "love" the work to be successful are lying. I am doing very well for myself but to me it is ONLY a job. It is a means to provide and save fr retirement. I devote a maximum of one hour per night to study because I promised myself that I wouldn't let my job be my life. I am very good at my job and I certainly don't "suck" at troubleshooting. If I am not on call then I leave my job at the door when I leave at the end of the day.

Good post

sides14

Strongly disagree. There are two types of people. There are those that enjoy their jobs and want to learn and become the best at it. Then there are those that only use it as a source of income. The people who only use it as a source of income are less likely to learn the true "nuts and bolts" about how things work. I am not saying that they aren't good at their jobs, but they aren't as good as the people who want to learn everything about their job. Which one do you think an employer is going to recognize and promote. The signs are obvious.

ehnde

sides14 wrote: »

...There are two types of people....

No offense, but I quit reading when you said this. You can't bottle people up into this type or that so simply.

instant000

To answer the original poster's question, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect to earn a little more, once you have more experience and a professional certification underneath your belt.

Bl8ckr0uter

sides14 wrote: »

Strongly disagree. There are two types of people.

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lrb

ehnde wrote: »

No offense, but I quit reading when you said this. You can't bottle people up into this type or that so simply.

Men and women?

I didn't read all the posts in this thread but I'm assuming most people said that the skills you obtain from getting your CCNP will make you more marketable (whether that be to your current employer or a future one) so I don't think your expectations are too far-fetched in getting a payrise when you (or are in the process of) obtaining your CCNP. My employer doesn't really value certifications but they certainly do value the skills that come with obtaining them.

rockd24

Are you happy with your current position? Do you see Cisco and networking being your career? I don't have much experience in I.T, but for me I think if you have CCNA now would be a good time to focus on what you do like, assuming you still want to be in I.T.

If not you have a good paying job for most places anyways. I would stick here, and start studying for something you enjoy and is able to support you financially.

Forsaken_GA

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're forgetting the #1 rule of Wikipedia - First place to look, last place to cite

My opinion - of course you don't need to love what you do to be good at it. Alot of people earn their living doing jobs they absolutely hate.

But you're not going to find many people at the top of their field who don't love what they do, and the closer you are to the top of your field, the easier it is to make some bank.

Everyone needs to decide for themselves if good enough is in fact good enough.