Should I take a paycut?? Read on for details

RomBUS

I went to an interview on Tuesday, everything went well and it seemed like a cool company to work for. I was interviewed by the President of the company and he seemed to be a down-to-earth kind of guy...now here's the thing he mentioned he would love for me to join the company and really liked my abilities and potential. He made an offer right on the spot during the interview and took me around the building for a quick tour. The company is not huge and has clients all over (he even said some clients in PA) but he did mentioned about 60-70% of the work is done remotely unless to pick up something for repair or other onsite needs. The main location is a close commute for me as well.

Now my issue is when we started talking compensation I got a little discouraged and iffy to join...he said he would pay me a lower salary than my last position ($10k less) but promised for raises the more trained I get to their technology ($5k more each time) but I thought to myself that could just be to get me reeled in. He also mentioned he would provide me with my own server and other things for training for free. Also he mentioned sending me out for training for two days in Ohio in the coming months for this medical supply training...I was a little surprised he would mentioned that to me when I didnt even say yes yet. He would provide fully paid medical and vacation days as well of course.

By the end of the conversation I told him that I was definitely interested in the position and would let him know and he said he wait for my response after some thinking. My question is do you guys think I should take the opportunity or no? I mean I have been getting a lot of calls of interested employers but nothing that promised me an offer (yet) but they would probably pay me more based on my experience/certifications...Let me know what you guys think. Thanks in advance!

Essendon

I'd be iffy too. If they dont put anything in writing about giving you regular raises and benefits, I probably would decline the offer. Is the job what you want to be doing?

nhan.ng

there are so many factors that you have to look at, like how is your current financial situation? Can you live ok/comfortably on the new pay rate? Will this job help you to strengthen your knowledge/skills? Will it help with your resume? If it does, then i'd go ahead and take it, but make sure he list everything he promised you on the job offering.

Nothing is official until you sign the offering letter. Don't forget to do some research about the future company....see if they have any bad reps....i'm sure your future employer is also doing the same thing on you.

kenoo

Don't do it, unless these raises are garaunteed and in writing, even then I wouldn't drop 10K in salary

Is it a smaller company? I've seen cases where they do this to bring in people and then make excuses such as performance or revenue to delay what was initially told to you

hiddenknight821

Even if you have it in writing, I still think you have to consider if it's worth it. I won't take jobs if I am not sure that they are stable enough to be able to pay out wages to employees like they promise. I used to work for an employer who robbed us our paychecks, and we got a class action lawsuit against him. So far, it has been two years, and I still haven't gotten my paycheck due to liquidating priorities.

Mike-Mike

all depends on what you're taking 10k off of. If you're making 30 grand and they take 10 grand off, you may end up living in a cardboard box. But if you're making 90 grand, 80k is certainly plenty to live on.

And yeah, get the raises and benefits in writing.

Michael.J.Palmer

Here's something that I'm shocked no one mentioned yet. If all else fails and you want to take the risk, get it in writing from the company and have the President sign off on that writing. Once in writing, see about having a lawyer keep track of it. It might be worth the risk if the person in charge signs off on all the promises they've made.

At that point if they don't deliver you might have a leg up for a breach of contract suit down the road. Make sure he knows that it's not that you don't trust him, it's just that you like to take every precaution before jumping into something. Chances are he'll like that as part of someone who does repair work, etc. for him. The last thing he'll want to do is hire someone who jumps blindly into everything they do.

PS: I was typing this out the same time the above person posted, so I didn't see his post until afterwards, .

Mrock4

I got an offer before my current position, that was less than what I was willing to accept- but the company put "get this cert, you'll get a $2,000/yr raise. Get this cert you'll get a $2,000/yr raise" etc...the "incentives" in my offer letter totalled to enough that if I was proactive, I could basically create the higher salary I was looking for. In short...just ask them to put the incentives in your offer letter, and you'll have a much better idea of what they can offer.

And on a side note, I think some perks of a job are worth a cut. The commute, ability to work from home, promotion potential, other incentives (ie..they'll pay for a cert/training), all have to come into play.

RomBUS

Well I still live at home so the pay decrease is not that hurtful but I figured at this stage with my certifications and experience I should be getting paid more. I think I've been thinking about it jus because I just want to get back into the field. So I should guarantee it in writing about the benefits and raises...what if he refuses? Should I decline the position?

Forsaken_GA

Mrock4 wrote: »

I got an offer before my current position, that was less than what I was willing to accept- but the company put "get this cert, you'll get a $2,000/yr raise. Get this cert you'll get a $2,000/yr raise" etc...the "incentives" in my offer letter totalled to enough that if I was proactive, I could basically create the higher salary I was looking for. In short...just ask them to put the incentives in your offer letter, and you'll have a much better idea of what they can offer.

Fully agree with this, make them put it in writing, do not take their word for it. If they won't do that, then don't budge on what you want up front. Explain to them that if they want you, and think you're going to do a good job, then the difference between what you want to start and what you're promising down the road is peanuts. If you don't perform at a level that justifies the salary, they can let you go.

If they won't budge at all, take a walk.

Mrock4

RomBUS wrote: »

Well I still live at home so the pay decrease is not that hurtful but I figured at this stage with my certifications and experience I should be getting paid more. I think I've been thinking about it jus because I just want to get back into the field. So I should guarantee it in writing about the benefits and raises...what if he refuses? Should I decline the position?

If he already said you could get raises for certs, and refuses to put it in writing, I'd walk..that's shady. I'd just kindly say you are definitely interested, and would like a growth plan which includes incentives for attaining certain certifications and/or meeting milestones they set.

I think it's OK to take a position where you are paid less than what you think you're worth..if there's other factors. My job now that I just started this month I am making about $10k less than what I wanted (still a big raise over my previous job), but they're paying for my CCIE training..so I think that's worth an easy $10k. I'd evaluate if there's anything else about the company worth it to you.

erpadmin

You live in one of the most expensive places in the country, if not the planet....Long Island makes NJ cheap, and that's saying a lot.

This guy is just buttering you up so that you can feel good about taking a paycut. Stay firm and do not budge. If this guy likes you that much, that means you can get something else for what you want.

I just had some recruiter from linkedin trying to lure me to the heartland. His pay range was sick (and not in that good way) and he's telling me that the cost of living is different over there. That's true, but I'm not going to take a paycut for a lateral move just so this guy can get his little $2k-5k.

Believe me, if you don't have to, don't take the cut. Opportunities will always present themselves at a later time. Maybe this guy will pay ball and give you what you want, but if he doesn't just say thank you, but no thank you.

Forsaken_GA

erpadmin wrote: »

I just had some recruiter from linkedin trying to lure me to the heartland. His pay range was sick (and not in that good way) and he's telling me that the cost of living is different over there. That's true, but I'm not going to take a paycut for a lateral move just so this guy can get his little $2k-5k.

I love it when recruiters try that argument. I always ask them if people really fall for it. Just because it's cheaper to live somewhere, doesn't mean money is worth more (or less). I'm looking to prosper, not achieve relative parity.

SteveLord

erpadmin wrote: »

I just had some recruiter from linkedin trying to lure me to the heartland. His pay range was sick (and not in that good way) and he's telling me that the cost of living is different over there. That's true, but I'm not going to take a paycut for a lateral move just so this guy can get his little $2k-5k.

They could be right to an extent. You're in Jersey after all ya know. Obviously...anyone should do his research if he is at all interested. My wife (an RN) took a $15-20k paycut when we moved here.

However like you said, is it worth it for a lateral move? Should at least move up if anything.

cxzar20

I think you would be taking a step back in your career. It needs to progress both in duties and compensation. Never trust a company when they tell you these things...actually never trust a company on anything. They are looking out for the interest of their shareholders only. You need to look out for your own.

Everyone

RomBUS wrote: »

He would provide fully paid medical and vacation days as well of course.

That could be worth it right there. Fully paid medical is pretty rare. Usually the employer pays for some of it, and the rest is taken out of your check, if you elect to receive the benefit that is.

I've had employers who's medical benefits would cost me around $1000 a month to insure my whole family.

Now if you don't have a wife and kids (sounds like you don't), the medical insurance is usually pretty cheap, it doesn't get expensive until you start adding dependants.

Point is, you have to look at total compensation, not just base salary, but still I wouldn't settle for less, especially if I already have a job paying more. Now if I was in desperate need of a job, and the only offer I had was a little less than my last job, that'd be a different story.

If they want you bad enough, they'll pay you what you're worth. Like others have said, tell him you need the offer in writing before you can accept. No offer is official unless it is in writing.

MusicIT

kenoo wrote: »

Don't do it, unless these raises are garaunteed and in writing, even then I wouldn't drop 10K in salary

Is it a smaller company? I've seen cases where they do this to bring in people and then make excuses such as performance or revenue to delay what was initially told to you

I work for a small company now and when I accepted the offer for the position it was $2,500 less than I wanted at that time but I took the job. In my contract said I would have a review for a possible raise to what I wanted for the position. So I get an e-mail from the CEO about 2 weeks before stating that all employees will have their pay reduced by 10% due to the company was not making money. So then every one gets an email couple of days ago that the performance reviews are going to happen in November.

Does any one think that this is a little shady? or has that ever happened to you?

I am thinking about looking for something else, but too many things are pointing to keeping the position (i.e. 5 miles from home, have a very flexible schedule, they pay all health/dental). Should I start looking for something else if I do not get a raise?

Devilry

If the guy really likes you he will give you what you currently make at minimum, and put all your incentives in writing.

No point in going backwards, there and plenty of fish in the sea, just hold your ground and a good thing will come eventually.

RomBUS

Thanks for your input guys...I am going to think about it more over the weekend and call him on Monday to discuss...just have to think what I am going to say exactly.

Mrock4

Everyone wrote: »

I've had employers who's medical benefits would cost me around $1000 a month to insure my whole family.

Jesus. I pay just shy of $300/mo for my family.

WafflesAndRootbeer

MusicIT wrote: »

I work for a small company now and when I accepted the offer for the position it was $2,500 less than I wanted at that time but I took the job. In my contract said I would have a review for a possible raise to what I wanted for the position. So I get an e-mail from the CEO about 2 weeks before stating that all employees will have their pay reduced by 10% due to the company was not making money. So then every one gets an email couple of days ago that the performance reviews are going to happen in November.

Does any one think that this is a little shady? or has that ever happened to you?

I am thinking about looking for something else, but too many things are pointing to keeping the position (i.e. 5 miles from home, have a very flexible schedule, they pay all health/dental). Should I start looking for something else if I do not get a raise?

It could be shady. It might not be. I would do some quiet digging to see what is going on with the company and it's financials. If they aren't making any money, then they are either being mismanaged, someone is stealing or writing off expenses on the company's dime, or the company is just a slowly sinking ship whose time has come to go down. Yes, there is a cycle in business, but you should never trust what someone above you says when it comes to money because their need for it will always take precedence over your well-being.

whatthehell

Most definitely get everything in writing, and be careful.

Working for a small or large company can be quite different, with the small company usually limited on the the salary ceiling, while the large company will most likely have a higher ceiling.

Good luck either way!

kenoo

MusicIT wrote: »

I work for a small company now and when I accepted the offer for the position it was $2,500 less than I wanted at that time but I took the job. In my contract said I would have a review for a possible raise to what I wanted for the position. So I get an e-mail from the CEO about 2 weeks before stating that all employees will have their pay reduced by 10% due to the company was not making money. So then every one gets an email couple of days ago that the performance reviews are going to happen in November.

Does any one think that this is a little shady? or has that ever happened to you?

I am thinking about looking for something else, but too many things are pointing to keeping the position (i.e. 5 miles from home, have a very flexible schedule, they pay all health/dental). Should I start looking for something else if I do not get a raise?

One of the worst to things to do in IT is get 'comfy' which it seems you are, you gotta keep making moves.. get your way outta there!

whatthehell

kenoo wrote: »

One of the worst to things to do in IT is get 'comfy' which it seems you are, you gotta keep making moves.. get your way outta there!

Great point! I got comfortable at my last job and stopped learning ... could have been there the rest of my life, making OK cash, but would have been bored.

Moved onto something harder, and I have learned a lot!

erpadmin

kenoo wrote: »

One of the worst to things to do in IT is get 'comfy' which it seems you are, you gotta keep making moves.. get your way outta there!

One shouldn't get "outta there" without having a plan for growth. You shouldn't get out solely for getting out's sake; one needs to have a plan for a career. Otherwise, it's just mindless job-hopping and that's NEVER good.

kenoo

whatthehell wrote: »

Great point! I got comfortable at my last job and stopped learning ... could have been there the rest of my life, making OK cash, but would have been bored.

Moved onto something harder, and I have learned a lot!

Definitely man

erpadmin wrote: »

One shouldn't get "outta there" without having a plan for growth. You shouldn't get out solely for getting out's sake; one needs to have a plan for a career. Otherwise, it's just mindless job-hopping and that's NEVER good.

Look at what I bolded, he's staying there because he got comfortable because its a easy commute, this and that, basically making excuses for him to stay there rather than to manup and do what he really wants and move on from a place that's shafting him

Turgon

RomBUS wrote: »

I went to an interview on Tuesday, everything went well and it seemed like a cool company to work for. I was interviewed by the President of the company and he seemed to be a down-to-earth kind of guy...now here's the thing he mentioned he would love for me to join the company and really liked my abilities and potential. He made an offer right on the spot during the interview and took me around the building for a quick tour. The company is not huge and has clients all over (he even said some clients in PA) but he did mentioned about 60-70% of the work is done remotely unless to pick up something for repair or other onsite needs. The main location is a close commute for me as well.

Now my issue is when we started talking compensation I got a little discouraged and iffy to join...he said he would pay me a lower salary than my last position ($10k less) but promised for raises the more trained I get to their technology ($5k more each time) but I thought to myself that could just be to get me reeled in. He also mentioned he would provide me with my own server and other things for training for free. Also he mentioned sending me out for training for two days in Ohio in the coming months for this medical supply training...I was a little surprised he would mentioned that to me when I didnt even say yes yet. He would provide fully paid medical and vacation days as well of course.

By the end of the conversation I told him that I was definitely interested in the position and would let him know and he said he wait for my response after some thinking. My question is do you guys think I should take the opportunity or no? I mean I have been getting a lot of calls of interested employers but nothing that promised me an offer (yet) but they would probably pay me more based on my experience/certifications...Let me know what you guys think. Thanks in advance!

I think you have to decide if you are a take a pay cut kind of guy or not. I appreciate circumstances can dictate this sometimes..i.e out of work and bills to pay. Unless you are nailed financially I would let this one go. Ask yourself, if you retreat on salary now just how long will it take you to get back to what you were previously earning? Also dont forget that the cost of living is just getting higher. In my experience if you stick to your guns on salary you get more respect from an employer when you turn up for work on day 1. Unless its take this job or default on your financial commitments I would say go back and ask for more money. You are worth it right?

erpadmin

kenoo wrote: »

Look at what I bolded, he's staying there because he got comfortable because its a easy commute, this and that, basically making excuses for him to stay there rather than to manup and do what he really wants and move on from a place that's shafting him

So.....what happens if he's at a dream job that is shafting him? Pay is six-figures, free medical for a family of 5, payment for training/schooling up front....whatever you can think of that would bring one financial happiness. However, the job makes you work long hours, it's thankless for the most part, you spend more time putting out fires than being proactive.....are you gonna "manup" then? (I'm not saying that's the guy's situation you were responding to...this is just hypothetical.)


I'm sorry, but I stand by what I said earlier....if one doesn't have a plan for growth, one should stay where he can for as long as one can bear it. Once conditions exists where he puts himself in an upwardly mobile position, then you bounce. Going to another lateral job for the same pay (or even less) is just not cute.

kenoo

erpadmin wrote: »

So.....what happens if he's at a dream job that is shafting him? Pay is six-figures, free medical for a family of 5, payment for training/schooling up front....whatever you can think of that would bring one financial happiness. However, the job makes you work long hours, it's thankless for the most part, you spend more time putting out fires than being proactive.....are you gonna "manup" then? (I'm not saying that's the guy's situation you were responding to...this is just hypothetical.)


I'm sorry, but I stand by what I said earlier....if one doesn't have a plan for growth, one should stay where he can for as long as one can bear it. Once conditions exists where he puts himself in an upwardly mobile position, then you bounce. Going to another lateral job for the same pay (or even less) is just not cute.

I see what you're saying, but why even bring hypothetical cases into question, it's a completely different situation then.

This guy took less of a salary than he wanted, isn't getting the promised review for a salary increase, and was docked 10% of his salary on top of it. I don't know many people who would be ok with that. Says alot about the company as a whole, shady imo.

Forsaken_GA

kenoo wrote: »

This guy took less of a salary than he wanted, isn't getting the promised review for a salary increase, and was docked 10% of his salary on top of it. I don't know many people who would be ok with that. Says alot about the company as a whole, shady imo.

I think it says alot more about the individual who accepts that position and then stays there. If I was that persons manager I'd think 'awesome, I've got a new doormat'

Forsaken_GA

erpadmin wrote: »

So.....what happens if he's at a dream job that is shafting him? Pay is six-figures, free medical for a family of 5, payment for training/schooling up front....whatever you can think of that would bring one financial happiness. However, the job makes you work long hours, it's thankless for the most part, you spend more time putting out fires than being proactive.....are you gonna "manup" then? (I'm not saying that's the guy's situation you were responding to...this is just hypothetical.)


I'm sorry, but I stand by what I said earlier....if one doesn't have a plan for growth, one should stay where he can for as long as one can bear it. Once conditions exists where he puts himself in an upwardly mobile position, then you bounce. Going to another lateral job for the same pay (or even less) is just not cute.

I agree with you to a degree. I personally think that if you hate your job, you owe it to yourself and to your employer to quit, regardless of whether or not you've got another job lined up. If you let that kind of situation play out to it's inevitable conclusion, it'll be worse for everyone.

If you allow yourself to be put in a position where you have to keep a job you hate in order to make ends meet, you've screwed up. I've planned for the eventuality of losing my job. I could quit today and pay all my bills and still live comfortably for six months. I could tap some long term investment accounts and turn that into 3 years if I had to. I wouldn't of course, I'd be looking for employment the second I was out the door, but I've got enough of a cushion that if my employer ever decided to try and hold my job over my head as a method to try and exploit me, they'd be in for a bit of a surprise.

This also gives me the confidence to speak up about any issues I have. Since I know I'm still going to be able to eat next month, and still be able to pay the rent, I'm not afraid to stick my neck out.

So yes, you plan, you prepare, you look for contingencies. Don't be the mouse in the cubicle who eventually resorts to burning down the company in a fit of vengeance. Do not stay in a bad situation any longer than is absolutely necessary, and do you damnedest to make sure you don't *ever* have to put up with that crap.