Questions about years of service

N2IT

I am a numbers guy and I like to group data into sets.

So with that being said please give me a feel of what you feel is acceptable and what is not.

Example:

1-6 months not good. Of course contract work is different or project work
6-9 is decent, but still in the danger zone of looking like a hopper.
9-12 months is minimally acceptable still can look bad, but overall explainable.
12 months to 3 years is ideal. Obviously depending on what type of work you are accomplishing.
3-5 you are an expert* in that field
5> you are starting to stagnate and run the potential risk of getting black balled into certain position.

These are just some thoughts, nothing set in stone.

Thoughts?

powerfool

I really couldn't say... 3-5 seems to be the minimum to not look like a job hopper to those that are old school or work in more stagnant fields, like accounting; I work at a job for 2-3 years typically, and I was told that I move around too quickly by a former boss... he said that you typically can't even start to be a contributor until about two years in. Funny thing was that I had transformed the department within my first year there.

It is really in the eye of the beholder. I think that IT is one of those fields where 1-3 years is the sweet spot for many who are in the know. I try to stay a minimum of two years... then I start to get board. That is why I like consulting. Of course, when you work for just one client, it is pretty much the same thing. I hope to find a different client in the coming year or two.

erpadmin

I'm going to answer this with my own experience and YOU, objectively, tell me what you think.

Truth be told though, I am actually considering trimming my earlier non-PeopleSoft experience but the jury is still out on that. In fact...I think I should so that I don't have to answer for about a year gap of unemployment in between Job 2 and Job 3.

Job 1->3 years
Job 2->1.5 years
Job 3-> 2 years and 7 months
Job 4-> 5 years and 5 months (and counting)

The last two jobs is where my ERP experience shines. For the specs that I get on a weekly/monthly basis, I see 3-10 years JUST for doing what I do today.

My last interview, there was actually a debate that my future boss started about length of employment. I was actually given a counter to that argument by a former colleague of mine (to this day I still thank him for that counter). His boss loved the counter, but attacked it because she wanted to make sure I wouldn't bounce on the job I have now after I hit my 3 years. I told her that if given the right circumstances and opportunities, I would love to make a career out of the job I'm in now.

Now, I was not able to pursue my current educational needs as I am now when I started this job. I had to work on getting my financial house in order. My FICO score was lower than dirt and my finances were crap. It would take me about 3 years from that start date to get me to where I could have an American Express Gold card in my wallet.

Once I am in a position where I carry an advanced degree in my pocket, doesn't matter that I was there for 50 years.....I can legitimately counter the stagnation argument. It's all about how one leverages their time in any given position. The argument of bouncing from job-to-job because "that's what we do in IT" has never held water to and for me, and I'm proof of that. Not everyone watches "blinking lights" for 20 years; a lot of folks get progressive responsibilities.

N2IT

powerfool wrote: »

I really couldn't say... 3-5 seems to be the minimum to not look like a job hopper to those that are old school or work in more stagnant fields, like accounting; I work at a job for 2-3 years typically, and I was told that I move around too quickly by a former boss... he said that you typically can't even start to be a contributor until about two years in. Funny thing was that I had transformed the department within my first year there.

It is really in the eye of the beholder. I think that IT is one of those fields where 1-3 years is the sweet spot for many who are in the know. I try to stay a minimum of two years... then I start to get board. That is why I like consulting. Of course, when you work for just one client, it is pretty much the same thing. I hope to find a different client in the coming year or two.

You make some good points. I think 1-3 is the sweet spot overall. I get bored as well after 3 years, it just becomes the same thing, unless you are getting other task and activities to do. Promotion, job role, and change in duties can obviously offset this. But if you are doing the same thing day in and day out it would seem to me that this would get boring, unless you absolutely adored your job. Which is always possible.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

I'm going to answer this with my own experience and YOU, objectively, tell me what you think.

Truth be told though, I am actually considering trimming my earlier non-PeopleSoft experience but the jury is still out on that. In fact...I think I should so that I don't have to answer for about a year gap of unemployment in between Job 2 and Job 3.

Job 1->3 years
Job 2->1.5 years
Job 3-> 2 years and 7 months
Job 4-> 5 years and 5 months (and counting)

The last two jobs is where my ERP experience shines. For the specs that I get on a weekly/monthly basis, I see 3-10 years JUST for doing what I do today.

My last interview, there was actually a debate that my future boss started about length of employment. I was actually given a counter to that argument by a former colleague of mine (to this day I still thank him for that counter). His boss loved the counter, but attacked it because she wanted to make sure I wouldn't bounce on the job I have now after I hit my 3 years. I told her that if given the right circumstances and opportunities, I would love to make a career out of the job I'm in now.

Now, I was not able to pursue my current educational needs as I am now when I started this job. I had to work on getting my financial house in order. My FICO score was lower than dirt and my finances were crap. It would take me about 3 years from that start date to get me to where I could have an American Express Gold card in my wallet.

Once I am in a position where I carry an advanced degree in my pocket, doesn't matter that I was there for 50 years.....I can legitimately counter the stagnation argument. It's all about how one leverages their time in any given position. The argument of bouncing from job-to-job because "that's what we do in IT" has never held water to and for me, and I'm proof of that. Not everyone watches "blinking lights" for 20 years; a lot of folks get progressive responsibilities.

Erp I think your job experience is stellar and the amount of years you have are a plus. 5.5+ and the 3 year stint shows you have sustainability, especially in your high level roles, like an PS DB admin.

I suppose it all depends on your job. Example deskside support or helpdesk you would want to get out within 2 years, unless you really liked that type of work, and their are people out there like that. Not to go off on a rant, but I know a guy who loves help desk. He makes around 40+ which gives him spending cash and his wife is a PM for a large financial institution which pays her mid 100,000's. Keep in mind its the midwest so that is a lot of scratch considering the geographical location.

To circle back to your job dates I think you are golden to say the least. I wish I had the opportunity to learn a high end technology like yourself. You know this better than anyone else on this forum.

Bottom line is you do what you have to do, and you my friend are doing a great job.

GAngel

I stay as long as the money is good. Once a better offer comes up i'm out the door (usually right around the 2 year mark). Years worked is irrelevant when you become good at what you do. Loyalty and all that is commendable but a suckers game unless you have responsibilities.

pham0329

I was eating lunch when I stumbled upon this thread. I absolutely hate how unless you're with a company for 1+ years, people label you as a job hopper or that you're not loyal to your employer...it's complete BS.

When a company brings on an employee, there's a 3 month probation period in which the company "tries out" the prospective employee to see if its a good match. Why aren't we, as employees, offered the same benefits? We all know most job descriptions out there hardly reflect the day-to-day duties of the role, and you can do as much research as you'd like, but until you actually works there, you're not going to know what it's like.

If I applied for a position based on the job description and gets hired, and find out what I'm doing is totatlly the opposite of what the job description says, I'm going to start looking for a new job. Also, if I receive an offer for 20k more than what I'm making, I'm accepting it.

blargoe

I'm about to reach 5 years at my current job, and would have moved on a year or two ago except for that "one last project" that keeps surfacing every so often to keep me interested enough to not leave just yet.

Forsaken_GA

pham0329 wrote: »

I was eating lunch when I stumbled upon this thread. I absolutely hate how unless you're with a company for 1+ years, people label you as a job hopper or that you're not loyal to your employer...it's complete BS.

If I applied for a position based on the job description and gets hired, and find out what I'm doing is totatlly the opposite of what the job description says, I'm going to start looking for a new job. Also, if I receive an offer for 20k more than what I'm making, I'm accepting it.

It's also largely psychological warfare type BS. An employer is more than willing to try such tactics to put you on the defensive, it allows them to get away with giving you less. At the end of the day, the employer is looking to acquire the best talent they can, at the lowest cost to the company. Just keep that in mind and stick to your guns.

Far too many people view employers as white knights, being gracious and coming down from on high to personally give you a helping hand. Do not fall victim to that. Employers hire employees for one simple reason - they believe that your efforts will ultimately make them more money than you cost them.

baseball1988

I am glad you brought up this topic/question. I am also a numbers guy.

I started my career in my mid 20's) because I went to obtain a lot of education. I started my first full time job during recession (took the job because i needed to pay bills) and worked for 1 year so far. I'm already thinking about job hopping to pursue the career i want. The company I work at is slow with promotions (takes like 3 years) to transfer over to another department and I'm not the type of guy who likes to wait. Promotions are based on "loyalty". What happens if they don't promote me and give it to somebody else? Then I wasted 3 years of service for staying.

I also dislike when employers ask "why are you planning to leave?" It's a tricky question and it's not a simple one. You don't want to badmouth your current employer and you must have a well-thought answer.

I feel very bad/guilty when I try to look for jobs at other companies while i am employed. I can't get over with it. Lots of people told me to "do what's best for yourself".

Lets say you work in help desk analyst. But after 1 year you resign and go after a help desk analyst at another company. Then this will look bad on you. It's a horizontal move than moving upwards.

I think 1 year is minimum of service is good enough. You don't want to waste time and you should pursue something you enjoy. Must have passion and growth opportunities to move forward.

apena7

baseball1988 wrote: »

I am glad you brought up this topic/question. I am also a numbers guy.

I started my career in my mid 20's) because I went to obtain a lot of education. I started my first full time job during recession (took the job because i needed to pay bills) and worked for 1 year so far. I'm already thinking about job hopping to pursue the career i want. The company I work at is slow with promotions (takes like 3 years) to transfer over to another department and I'm not the type of guy who likes to wait. Promotions are based on "loyalty". What happens if they don't promote me and give it to somebody else? Then I wasted 3 years of service for staying.

I also dislike when employers ask "why are you planning to leave?" It's a tricky question and it's not a simple one. You don't want to badmouth your current employer and you must have a well-thought answer.

I feel very bad/guilty when I try to look for jobs at other companies while i am employed. I can't get over with it. Lots of people told me to "do what's best for yourself".

Lets say you work in help desk analyst. But after 1 year you resign and go after a help desk analyst at another company. Then this will look bad on you. It's a horizontal move than moving upwards.

I think 1 year is minimum of service is good enough. You don't want to waste time and you should pursue something you enjoy. Must have passion and growth opportunities to move forward.

The best advice I've ever read on this forum: Never sacrifice your career for a job.

baseball1988

apena7 wrote: »

The best advice I've ever read on this forum: Never sacrifice your career for a job.

Yes. Im actually planning to sacrifice my job for a career soon. (worked for 1 year already)

erpadmin

FWIW, I would not have made the salary I make today if not for the earlier bouncing I did in my career.

What I take issue with is leaving a job for the sake of leaving a job. For as long as I read that nonsense, I'm going to do my best to counter it.


If you go to the first post I made in this thread, you can look at how long I was with job #1. I could have still been at job #1 today and would, at best be making $45k TODAY. Keep in mind too, that the guy who runs HR (or maybe ran....but I would have heard if he died/left by now) had a very personal grudge against me. Made it a point to help bring in a guy making $7k more. Once I reached three years, I took Job #2 to exceed that salary I should have made. Then 9/11 happened.....it was either get laid off or move to the heartland. I took my chances with the layoff.....

I had a plan though...I made it my mission to get into backoffice work. Being a level 1/level 2 help desk guy for life just wasn't in my cards. Once I found a position to grow my skill set, yeah, I was gonna stay for a bit.

Now I'm looking to graduate college and begin grad school soon. I'm not going to start a new job doing that UNLESS it's one that will bring me in management. Otherwise, I'll stay where I'm at, whether it's 5 years or 15.

The way you plan your career should be done in a strategic manner.

"This is chess, not checkers."

Forsaken_GA

baseball1988 wrote: »

I also dislike when employers ask "why are you planning to leave?" It's a tricky question and it's not a simple one. You don't want to badmouth your current employer and you must have a well-thought answer.

Honestly, that's one of my favorite interview questions to get. It opens the door for you to set your expectations. Obviously, never bad mouth your current/former employer, that never goes over well, but use it to your advantage to lay out what you're looking for. It's better to get that out of the way up front than to gloss it over and take the job only to find you can't stand it.