Non-Tech Managers Managing Tech?

the_Grinch

What's everyones view on this? I work for an MSP, so all of my managers (even the CEO has some tech knowledge) come from a tech background. A number of our clients have Directors of IT or CIO (or whatever title that they come up with) with no background in technology. Most got the position because they had been with the company forever and no one else wanted the spot. They call to open tickets and most leave it at that. Recently, I've had to deal with one who tends to be a pain about everything. She has gone as far as to yell at techs on the phone saying what they are doing to resolve a problem isn't correct. Ultimately, what they do is fix the issue by continuing with their method (which is correct).

So this particular person put in a request two days ago after our normal operating hours. For emergency purposes we are 24/7 (at least one person here at all times) and in our contracts it explains that 8:30 AM to 5:00 AM are the hours of support. Again, we will field calls and do support if they come in, but 98% of our customers are only 9 to 5 (we have a couple 24/7 offices and we support them) and we make adjustments for those with offices in the various time zones. But I digress...

The user puts in the request and since it is after 5 pm, it doesn't get touched. At 4:30 AM the next morning she calls in about the issue (which hasn't been touched) and wants to know the status. I field the call, tell her I will look into it, and call the Manager with direct knowledge of the issue (as she stated he fixed it over the weekend). He gives me a couple of things to try, I try them, and narrow down the issue to one server. Nothing we tried fixed it, so we need to contact the program's support company. They aren't open during my hours, so I let the user know that I am placing it in the queue for follow up for the support hours. Now, a failure on our part is it doesn't appear anyone took the ticket (someone might have, but there are no notes). Now at 9 PM she emails in for a status, to which I call the manager again as it appears nothing has been done and he suggests a reboot.

I reboot the device (citrix server) and do various test, problem is still there. I write her, tell her the issue is still ongoing, and that we need to follow up with the programs support. They have 3 citrix servers, they could easily survive on 2 (even 1 if they truly had too). So she emails me again this morning at 4:30 AM asking if I spoke to the manager who fixed it previously (I've CC'd him on every email in regards to this issue and had told her I had talked to him). I reply (CCing him) saying yes I had and I followed his steps, but they aren't resolving the issue. Now, every time she replies to me, she does not use reply all. Asks again, did I do the following steps (which I had said previously, I had). So I reply (again CCing the needed people) verbatim what I had done. Then I get a rude reply, which per usual is sent only to me and not to the other people. At this point I feel it is personal, as I have gone above what is required and could have said no one worked on your issue. On top of that, her not using reply all to address everyone on the email, when she does so during the day (and she isn't replying from a blackberry or mobile device) makes me believe she has an issue of some kind with me. On night shift, I am only expected to open the tickets. I extend myself to save the on-call guy and do know when then is required of the position.

So, how do you guys deal with users that have no technical knowledge and continually badger you?

powerfool

Is it possible? Sure. Here is the one big problem I see with non-technical managers managing IT, etc: they won't be respected by their subordinates. Pretty difficult to be an effective manager when you are not respected.

instant000

I tell them the truth. Not harshly. But, I attempt to explain the issue to them.

In this case, it does not even appear to be a technical complaint that you have with this person, as much as it appears to be a clash of personalities. A person wants to be a jerk, and you're not a jerk, so it's a normal clash

Whereas maybe a technical person would more readily understand that there are only certain hours of support that you get from vendors (depending on what you're willing to pay and what they're willing to offer), this person should be able to understand that much, also.

Also, consider this person might have someone they report to, requiring an update every X number of hours.

This would seem a prime opportunity to notify the customer that if they want expanded hours of support from Citrix, then they can purchase it, and you have to opportunity to re-sell them a support package. Do not stress over stuff like this

Also, not sure if your firm has an offering for expanded hours of support, but if so, then this would be a prime opportunity to sell that to them, also.

N2IT

My boss is 100% business 0 IT and he consistently delivers. I think either you are a good manager with knowledge or your are not.

As long as they can understand the high level deliverables they are fine. Do they really need to know how to patch a server or how to create a view off of a table?

I might be in the minority, but I found if they come clean and admit they have very little technicial experience the guys will support them and help. In reality do you want a technical guy designing your service design package or running your weekly, monthly, quartly review meetings? Do you want a tech reporting on the financials and setting up vendor accounts?

MrRyte

I don't see much issue with a non-IT person overseeing the IT department. Just because a person is an expert in a field it doesn't automatically qualify them to be in a management position. There is FAR more to management than just delegating assignments and meeting deadlines. And let's be real-an IT expert with good people skills isn't easy to find.

My only issue would be if that person starts to question my credentials or IT knowledge when they have NONE (and FWIW-I think that MBAs give a person a false sense of business acumen...... )

brad-

since tech managers dont have to be 'tech' people, higher ups tend to hire people they already know or like with complete disregard for anyone in the tech arena that may be more deserving or knowledgeable.

on the flip side, tech people dont always make good managers because many of us have ultra poor social and communication skills.

its just the way it is.

rsutton

I've been in this situation and when the executive level IT person has a good team and can trust them it works out well. Your CTO or IT director should not be involved in the knitty gritty technical details.

it_consultant

At some point you need to deliver a 40,000 foot overview lecture to non-IT managers. If they start asking for a new phone system they have to know what a "trunk" is. Beyond that I have had fairly good success with non-IT managers. I have had a few, though, who rolled in and asks "I love my mac, why don't we get those for everyone". Then its a long hard road...

N2IT

it_consultant wrote: »

At some point you need to deliver a 40,000 foot overview lecture to non-IT managers. If they start asking for a new phone system they have to know what a "trunk" is. Beyond that I have had fairly good success with non-IT managers. I have had a few, though, who rolled in and asks "I love my mac, why don't we get those for everyone". Then its a long hard road...

chrisone

Non-Tech Managers Managing Tech?

= FAIL!!!!

Devilsbane

It depends on how they manage. My manager has been an IT manager for more than 10 years. Every now and then he calls me to his desk because something on his computer isn't working. He doesn't know a ton about computers but what he does know is management and process. Could he rebuild a machine? No. But is that in his job description?

The reason my answer is depends is because of this. He understands that he is out of the IT loop. He doesn't run around making big decisions without consulting those on the lower end that work with the technology on a daily basis. He also doesn't micro-manage. It takes a significant amount of trust, but for the most part he just lets us run with things. Some managers get on power trips and just start making decisions, and those are the ones that fail.

chrisone

I think the original post meant someone with absolutely no idea of what a router, switch , server, VOIP, or networks are. Meaning they dont even know basic IT terminology. Say for instance an accounting manager in charge of an IT department.

That is how is viewed the post.

the_Grinch

Yeah, this user can only speak in non-tech terms. We'll often get tickets that state there is a global issue and it ends of being one user (on top of never wanting to give us the needed information to contact the user with the issue). She is really good at just repeating what she heard, but not knowing the concepts behind it. Example:

Is the program running in elevated mode?

I reply, yes we have done that.

The reply back: So it is set to run as administrator?

That would be "elevated mode" so yes.

I don't have a huge problem with non-techs being managers. I like it more when they just want a high level overview and respect the judgement of those with the knowledge. I would have no issues with this user if she called in for status updates during normal business hours and didn't question the work I had done. As always guys, solid advice!

shaqazoolu

Non-Tech Managers Managing Tech?

No.

RobertKaucher

the_Grinch wrote: »

Yeah, this user can only speak in non-tech terms. We'll often get tickets that state there is a global issue and it ends of being one user (on top of never wanting to give us the needed information to contact the user with the issue). She is really good at just repeating what she heard, but not knowing the concepts behind it. Example:

Is the program running in elevated mode?

I reply, yes we have done that.

The reply back: So it is set to run as administrator?

That would be "elevated mode" so yes.

I don't have a huge problem with non-techs being managers. I like it more when they just want a high level overview and respect the judgement of those with the knowledge. I would have no issues with this user if she called in for status updates during normal business hours and didn't question the work I had done. As always guys, solid advice!

I just wanted to chime in here with the old cliche that if you promote your best tech to management it might be that all you have done is hired a poor manager and fired your best tech. The meaning is that managers need to know how to manage and they need to know how to do so within the field they are managing, but they do not need to be techs themselves. It sounds like she is trying to compensate for her ignorance of both the issue resolution process and the issue itself by micromanaging.

The worst kinds of people are the ones who believe that by making noise and handwaving (meaning making it look like you are doing work by moving frantically) they can compensate for their failures as professionals. Quite sad that you have to deal with this.

If you see a lot of this sort of stuff I suggest that you take a look at the topic of "Managing Up" or "Managing from below" as you can get some good advice. Most of the books on the topic are self-help BS but you can find a few gems of advice. The basic strategy is how to lead your higher ups in the proper direction without making it look like you are constantly challenging their authority or bad mouthing them.

The worst thing you can do for your own career is to make it look like you have a problem with authority EVEN IF the person does not deserve your respect. The fact is, the other managers around the company, many of whom may be capable, will see how you behave and judge your value as an employee based on that. If you are constantly oppositionally defiant (as so many people in our field are) they will see you as a threat to their well being (because you are). Of course I don't mean you as in you specifically but in the generic sense.

Devilsbane

the_Grinch wrote: »

We'll often get tickets that state there is a global issue and it ends of being one user (on top of never wanting to give us the needed information to contact the user with the issue). She is really good at just repeating what she heard, but not knowing the concepts behind it.

That doesn't sound like a problem of not being technical, that sounds more like general stupidity and laziness.

Hypntick

the_Grinch wrote: »

We'll often get tickets that state there is a global issue and it ends of being one user (on top of never wanting to give us the needed information to contact the user with the issue).

This is just about every single user out there. Almost without fail they inflate their issue because they believe it will be addressed quicker. For example I had a person call one day stating the entire 4th floor of their business was down. I check the switch, from what I can see everything looks good. So I ask her to go to the 4th floor and let me know which users are having problems. She goes up, 2 people can't connect, she then mentions they had a power flicker for a moment. Have they rebooted? No...and this is their on site IT person...