Hello New Person with Questions about IT Career Path

EXPReaperJabub

Good Evening,
I am a 24 (25 in October) Year old young Professional in Jacksonville, FL with 6 Years of Customer Service/Tech Support/Collections Experience looking to get into IT. I am currently studying for my A+ Certification. I am currently planning on Self-Studying my way through the Certification Path Matching up what WGU has in their Bachelors Degree in Science Network Design and Management Path as well as the Masters Degree in Science Information Security and Assurance Path. I was previously enrolled there in 2010 but then my Computer Died and wasted Student Loan Money so I am going to do it on my own. The Plan is to get a Help Desk Job as soon as Humanly Possible and then a Sys/Network Admin Job 2-3 Years in and a Network/Sys Engineer Job 7-9 Years in.

I wanted to get some feedback on this process to see if I need to do some tweaking.
I plan on getting Certs and Degrees in the following order:
A+
Network+
MCTS: Windows 7 – Configuration
MCITP:Server Administrator
CCENT/CCNA
Security+
MCITP:Enterprise Adminstrator
Project+
CIW Web Foundations Associate (Just for WGU)
CIW JavaScript Specialist (Just for WGU)
Bachelors Degree in Science Network Design and Management Path
CCNP
EC-Council Disaster Recovery Professional Exam (312-76)
EC-Council Ethical Hacking and Countermeasures (EC0-350)
EC-Council Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator (EC0-349)
GIAC G2700 (Standards and Policies)
Masters Degree in Science Information Security and Assurance Path.
CCIE

I currently work in Collections making 17.25 an Hr So I am 1. Concerned about a Pay cut right off the Bat but am willing to take a small paycut as I will leave as soon as I get a job offer. I'm ready and raring to go. Any and all feedback would be appreciated. I've been a Lurker for about a Month and though it was time to take the Plunge. Sorry about the Length.

rsutton

Hi and welcome to the forums. That is a long list of certs. I would say that a lot of those won't really help you in one role verses another. You might want to focus on a specialty and then decide what certs would be a good fit. If you want to be a Microsoft Sys admin, then you can avoid most of those Cisco certs, although the CCNA wouldn't be bad to have. If you want to live, eat and breathe Cisco then the CCIE is an option. I wouldn't worry about certs like that until you have been in the industry for a few years, you will likely have a better idea at that time what high level certs to chase.

EXPReaperJabub

Thanks for the welcome and Feedback. I was actually planning on Getting both because I figured I'd be a little bit more Hireable (Sp?) That way. The CCIE is Years and Years away so this is totally a Preliminary Plan. I figure A+ net+ and MCTS is enough to get me in the door (hopefully)

the_Grinch

Be prepared to take the pay cut, as a lot of help desk jobs I have seen in my area are only looking to pay between 9 to 15 an hour (and they want certs). That being said, I have to agree to find the path you want to go down and then look at the more specialized certs. I'd probably kick the EC Council CHFI and Disaster Recovery off that list, as you'd be hard pressed to find anyone looking for those certs (save the cash). The good thing is you want to get on the help desk and that will help you find the path you want to go down. You'll see a lot on the help desk and you'd be amazed at how you change your mind on the field you want once you are there.

Seeing that you want to get a Masters in Information Assurance, I assume security is the ultimate goal? If that is the case, then you have the joy of finding what field within there you want to work in (Network Security, Server Based Security, Auditing, Incident Response (this depends on the company as sometimes they will have a team for just incident response), etc). I can offer some guidance on getting into a security role as that has been my goal. Get a foundation in some technology, be it Cisco, Microsoft, whatever. You need to know how it works inside and out in order to properly secure them. In looking at various entry level security position, they look for experience in administering whatever technology they want secured.

This forum is a great resource for basically everything you need to know, use it. There are numerous individuals here with tons of experience in basically every technology you can think of and are more then willing to guide you. We had a topic about mentoring and in all honesty this whole site is full of that. So learn from Jurassic Park:

"You read what others had done, and you took the next step...packaged it...slapped it on a plastic lunch box." -Dr. Ian Malcolm

Read the pitfalls/successes other had and learn from them!

Good luck!

TLeTourneau

It looks ambitious. I'd focus on what you enjoy and branch out from there. If you prefer SA work focus on that line, if networking is what makes you happy start there. Once you've focused on what you like start leaning and getting certified. If you like them both the same flip a coin and focus on one to start with. Also, as you probably know (but didn't list) the MCITP's have MCTS requirements, I just wanted to mention it in case they were overlooked.

EXPReaperJabub

Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated. Well my overall goal is Network Engineer from a Project Mgmt and Handson Perspective. Basically I want someone to give me a Budget and tell me to Build them a Network. That's the dream job. The Masters Degree is more of a What the hell its there might as well get it type of deal. But I'm open to a Suggestions as that is a long time away.

Yeah I'm aware of the MCTS Requirements too Just didn't feel like listing them all, Just the Goals.

So let me know what you think my path should be from both a Cert and a Career Perspective from Help Desk to Network Engineer if you have any additional feedback. Thanks a ton!

demonfurbie

EXPReaperJabub wrote: »

Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated. Well my overall goal is Network Engineer from a Project Mgmt and Handson Perspective. Basically I want someone to give me a Budget and tell me to Build them a Network. That's the dream job. The Masters Degree is more of a What the hell its there might as well get it type of deal. But I'm open to a Suggestions as that is a long time away.

Yeah I'm aware of the MCTS Requirements too Just didn't feel like listing them all, Just the Goals.

So let me know what you think my path should be from both a Cert and a Career Perspective from Help Desk to Network Engineer if you have any additional feedback. Thanks a ton!

if thats your goal i would drop a good bit of the sec stuff and lean more to a pmp or itil

EXPReaperJabub

Well the only reason I'm getting them is they are part of the WGU Curriculum and I wanted to get them out of the way. What is the Deal with PMP? I heard there are some strict qualifications and its very expensive. Not familiar with ITIL at all.

DigitalZeroOne

You definitely have too much on your plate, the first thing that you need to do is focus on a path. You can focus on development (C++, C#, VB, etc). You can focus on networking (CCNA, CCNP, Cisco, Juniper etc.) You can focus on databases (SQL, Oracle, etc). Then you can focus on System Administration, now that can encompass many different technologies (MS Server 200x, Linux, UNIX, SAN, some networking, and things in-between)

I categorize those areas in a Senior level capacity, there is also helpdesk, desktop support, technical writing, project management, business analyst, security, and the list goes on.

If I were you, I would go to a community college and pay for the classes outright, in Jacksonville, I think they have Florida State College at Jacksonville...go there, pay for the classes out of pocket, you can learn networking, programming, system administration, etc. I would take a few classes and find out what you really want to do. Heck, you can get a 4-year degree from there if I'm not mistaken. If you do that, and you find out what you like, then that will narrow down the certification list tremendously. If you go that route and get your associates, you may want to start looking for jobs in IT, FSCJ may also have some type of internship, maybe you could work in the computer lab.

EXPReaperJabub

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

You definitely have too much on your plate, the first thing that you need to do is focus on a path. You can focus on development (C++, C#, VB, etc). You can focus on networking (CCNA, CCNP, Cisco, Juniper etc.) You can focus on databases (SQL, Oracle, etc). Then you can focus on System Administration, now that can encompass many different technologies (MS Server 200x, Linux, UNIX, SAN, some networking, and things in-between)

I categorize those areas in a Senior level capacity, there is also helpdesk, desktop support, technical writing, project management, business analyst, security, and the list goes on.

If I were you, I would go to a community college and pay for the classes outright, in Jacksonville, I think they have Florida State College at Jacksonville...go there, pay for the classes out of pocket, you can learn networking, programming, system administration, etc. I would take a few classes and find out what you really want to do. Heck, you can get a 4-year degree from there if I'm not mistaken. If you do that, and you find out what you like, then that will narrow down the certification list tremendously. If you go that route and get your associates, you may want to start looking for jobs in IT, FSCJ may also have some type of internship, maybe you could work in the computer lab.

Thanks for the feedback. I thought about that and am not the best Classroom Learner and would get impatient. (I really despise classrooms) Plus I figure Self-Study would be Much Faster and I've been through WGU before and really like what I see there,just want to get the Certs First. As I stated the Overall Goal is Network Engineering as the Final Goal. So Maybe give me an example of a Path you would take in my shoes. Thanks again! Loving the Feedback.

Forgot to Mention again that I have a curren Full Time Job and all the IT Classes at FSCJ require Physical Attendance (mostly during when I work) So FSCJ really isn't an option for me anyway.

DigitalZeroOne

EXPReaperJabub wrote: »

Forgot to Mention again that I have a curren Full Time Job and all the IT Classes at FSCJ require Physical Attendance (mostly during when I work) So FSCJ really isn't an option for me anyway.

I definitely understand that you say that you aren't a good classroom learner, but if you could, I would check on one thing at FSCJ. I believe they may have a Cisco class...actually, I just checked their website and they do have a Cisco only program. You may want to see if any of these classes can be taken around your work schedule. You would get hand-on training with Cisco equipment, and that would be a great jump start.

If FSCJ is truly not an option, you may want to look into buying either Trainsignal on CBT Nuggests CCENT/CCNA vidoes. There is also a really good training simulation program called packet tracer, it allows you to practice on Cisco switches, routers, you can attach computers, you get the closet thing to full Cisco IOS without the equipment. Ummmm...you may be able to "buy" (ahem) packet tracer online...version 5.2 would be good.

EXPReaperJabub

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

I definitely understand that you say that you aren't a good classroom learner, but if you could, I would check on one thing at FSCJ. I believe they may have a Cisco class...actually, I just checked their website and they do have a Cisco only program. You may want to see if any of these classes can be taken around your work schedule. You would get hand-on training with Cisco equipment, and that would be a great jump start.

If FSCJ is truly not an option, you may want to look into buying either Trainsignal on CBT Nuggests CCENT/CCNA vidoes. There is also a really good training simulation program called packet tracer, it allows you to practice on Cisco switches, routers, you can attach computers, you get the closet thing to full Cisco IOS without the equipment. Ummmm...you may be able to "buy" (ahem) packet tracer online...version 5.2 would be good.

Yeah I'd much rather go at my own Pace because I'm one of those people that runs through Material faster than the class would. A friend did go through the Cisco Training and absolutely loved it but he hasn't passed his Certs yet. I did see previous Posts about all the Self Study and that's actually the Plan but Gotta get through the other Certs on my list first. Would you say its better to do the CCNA first before doing the MCITP:Server Admin?

the_Grinch

If networking is what you want to do, I wouldn't focus on the MCITP. I'd get A+ and Network+ to get you on a helpdesk somewhere. Once there I would jump into the CCNA studies. While on the helpdesk, shadow the network guys and have them show you the things they do. Then if you see a ticket and you know how to fix it, ask them to look over your shoulder as you make the adjustment/fix. You'll find that working on the CCNA while on a helpdesk will truly help you. I am the night NOC guy and sometimes we get false positives. Since I am studying for the CCNA, I logged into the device in question and confirmed that the various interfaces were up. Saved me from calling a network engineer for no reason at 3 AM and let me know I needed to cycle our probe to fix the issue.

From there hopefully you either move up where you are at into a network position or apply somewhere else. Then you can go through CCNP(and maybe DA/DP) so you can reach your goal of designing and building networks. Good luck!

EXPReaperJabub

the_Grinch wrote: »

If networking is what you want to do, I wouldn't focus on the MCITP. I'd get A+ and Network+ to get you on a helpdesk somewhere. Once there I would jump into the CCNA studies. While on the helpdesk, shadow the network guys and have them show you the things they do. Then if you see a ticket and you know how to fix it, ask them to look over your shoulder as you make the adjustment/fix. You'll find that working on the CCNA while on a helpdesk will truly help you. I am the night NOC guy and sometimes we get false positives. Since I am studying for the CCNA, I logged into the device in question and confirmed that the various interfaces were up. Saved me from calling a network engineer for no reason at 3 AM and let me know I needed to cycle our probe to fix the issue.

From there hopefully you either move up where you are at into a network position or apply somewhere else. Then you can go through CCNP(and maybe DA/DP) so you can reach your goal of designing and building networks. Good luck!

Well CCNA is 2 Exams vs. MCITP which is 3. So I guess that makes sense. I will prolly get the MCTS Win 7 Config Cert first and start with CCNA and go from there. But all thats next. A+ Net+ first. Where should I put Sec+ and Project+ in regards to the WGU Curriculum?

tearofs

CCNA could also be one exam

Everyone

If you really want to do Networking, get rid of all the Systems related stuff from you list. MCTS, and both MCITPs, can all go.

If you really want to do Security, CISSP would be a good one to add to the list.

Help Desk pay is going to depend on the area you live in, and the industry you work in. I have seen Help Desk jobs pay as high as in the $20-$30/hr range. I've also seen them pay as low as barely above minimum wage.

Good luck.

EXPReaperJabub

Why would the MCITP stuff Go? Wouldnt I be selling my self short if I didnt know both Cisco and Microsoft? (Linux/Unix is another story but I have no interest in learning a New Operating System unless I absolutely need too and it seems a few companies use it anyway)

vCole

EXPReaperJabub wrote: »

Why would the MCITP stuff Go? Wouldnt I be selling my self short if I didnt know both Cisco and Microsoft? (Linux/Unix is another story but I have no interest in learning a New Operating System unless I absolutely need too and it seems a few companies use it anyway)

Not quite. I work for NetApp, and I can tell you 90% of our environment is Linux/Unix. Our product runs on FreeBSD (Unix). Tons, and tons or companies do have Linux/Unix.

EXPReaperJabub

I stand Corrected! Well Looks Like I'll have to add it to the already Massive List of things I need to do. Ugh. What would you suggest as a Certification Path vCole?

Everyone

EXPReaperJabub wrote: »

Why would the MCITP stuff Go? Wouldnt I be selling my self short if I didnt know both Cisco and Microsoft? (Linux/Unix is another story but I have no interest in learning a New Operating System unless I absolutely need too and it seems a few companies use it anyway)

Because it's server stuff. Unless you're a 1 man IT shop, the Networking guy won't touch the servers, and the Systems guy won't touch the networking equipment (routers, switches, etc).

As a Network Admin/Engineer, you won't need to know how to make a Windows 7 desktop join a domain, or how to configure Active Directory, etc. Your responsabilities will typically end at the switch. Is the network up? Yes? Ok then not your problem anymore.

Systems Admins/Engineers know how to configure a NIC on a server. Help Desk/Desktop Support people know how to configure a NIC on desktop. If the NIC settings are correct, and everything is physically connected as it should be, and they can't communicate with other systems on the network, then it's time to call a Network guy.

Project Management is its own thing too. Project Managers look at the big picture, and assign tasks to the appropriate people to work out the details needed to complete the project. This would be the person telling you what the budget is, and asking you to build the Network.

Now in larger companies, it will be a little more involved than that.

The Project Manager works with various people to determine the scope of the project. If the Project is to install a network into a new facility, it is going to go to a Network Architect first. The Network Architect will design the network. They'll draw the whole thing out, both physical and logical connections. How it will tie back in to the main network, everything. Then it gets handed off to the Network Engineer, who does the install and configuration of the devices according to the design laid out by the Architect. Often times there will be a lower/entry level type person that runs all the cable. Once the network is in place, it gets handed off to the Network Administrator, who will administer and maintain it from here on out. Now at a lot of places, the Architect, Engineer, and Administrator, may be the same person.

Systems Architecture/Engineering/Administration comes in AFTER a Network is in place. As a Systems Architect, could be designing the Systems Infrastructure, which are services that support other Systems, like Active Directory, DNS, DHCP, etc., as an example. The System Engineer would of course be doing the actual implementation, and the Administrator keeps it up and running once everything is in place. There are many different areas to specialize in when it comes to systems.

Now a good Networking person has a basic understanding of Systems, but they have no need to go as deep as an MCITP would take them. Same as a good Systems person has an understanding of Networking, but CCNA or whatever your Networking cert of choice is, would be a waste of time for them.

It will be YEARS before you get to that level in IT.

EXPReaperJabub

Thank you so much for explaining the different Roles. I guess being a Hybrid Network/Systems Admin the Engineer is pushing it? I love being a Jack of All Trades. It makes sense for the same guy that Implemented the Network/System to be able to Support said Network/System (at least to me).

I assume the Project Mgr would be a Logical Promotion for a Sr. Admin or Sr. Engineer? Thanks everyone for your help. I don't have the ability to give Rep for some reason but everyone that has answered deserves one. Your feedback is appreciated so much!

Everyone

EXPReaperJabub wrote: »

Thank you so much for explaining the different Roles. I guess being a Hybrid Network/Systems Admin the Engineer is pushing it? I love being a Jack of All Trades. It makes sense for the same guy that Implemented the Network/System to be able to Support said Network/System (at least to me).

That depends on what type of environment you want to work in. If you want to work for smaller companies where you're the only person, or 1 of only a few people, doing IT, then that is fine. Your environments will be small, because the amount of users you have will never be more than a couple hundred at most, usually less.

EXPReaperJabub wrote: »

I assume the Project Mgr would be a Logical Promotion for a Sr. Admin or Sr. Engineer? Thanks everyone for your help. I don't have the ability to give Rep for some reason but everyone that has answered deserves one. Your feedback is appreciated so much!

Well I suppose it is an option, but I wouldn't say it is the logical step. Project Managers are their own special breed. I can't say I've ever met one that was a former Admin or Engineer. Project Management can deal with a lot more than just IT.

You probably won't see a full time Project Manager in most small or medium sized businesses. Probably well over 1000+ Employees before you start seeing a full time Project Manager position.

Project Management functions, as they relate to IT, are often carried out by an IT Manager, or a Senior/Lead level technical employee.

That actually made me think of another cert you may want to look into, ITIL Foundations. If you want a good understanding of how different roles and functions within IT should work together, and who should be doing what, studying ITIL is a good place to start.

EXPReaperJabub

Yeah someone mentioned ITIL But I'm not too familiar with it and visited the website and didn't really see what it was about so I'll take your word for it.

I think I will go ahead and do CCNA and then maybe the ITIL or the MCITP but that would be after getting a Help Desk Position somewhere, which is really the Hardest Part in my opinion, getting that foot in the door.

I'm ready to leave my current job so fast but of course gotta pay the bills. I'm using that Negativity and using it as Motivation to study for my A+ which is probably the most boring thing I've ever done (Anyone find anything more boring than learning about Microprocessors and RAM? xD) Thanks again for all your help. (Dont know why I cant give Rep out..)

tearofs

Being an expert in one area is where you make the big buck. Not really Jack of All Trades tbh to you.

EXPReaperJabub

tearofs wrote: »

Being an expert in one area is where you make the big buck. Not really Jack of All Trades tbh to you.

Well I figure taking the time to be proficient at most things will make a little bit more Hireable and once I'm in then I'll become an expert at whatever is necessary...does that makes sense? Obviously that would take alot of time but the $$$ (I hope sorta) would be worth my time in the supreme long run.

TLeTourneau

tearofs wrote: »

Being an expert in one area is where you make the big buck. Not really Jack of All Trades tbh to you.

Says the person with the CCNP and the MCSE!

Just had to say it....

EXPReaperJabub

LOL! Which I plan on getting both

Mrock4

ITIL (foundations) might be useful eventually, but I'm just now getting around to it after 6+ yrs in the field, and it's because my employer requires it. Not really a big deal IMO..

Nice to see another floridian. I think your idea of getting qualified in a few areas is a good one. It'll give you a good idea of what you really like (and the ability to get started in a decent position), then you can focus in on one area if you want.

Best of luck either way.

EXPReaperJabub

Ah I will put ITIL on the backburner in that case. Born and raised in Jax and not planning on leaving unless it's a Job Offer in New York City,Chicago,LA,Silicon Valley,New Orleans, or Japan! Love this place.

EXPReaperJabub

Sorry about the Double Post Hope thats ok, wanted to delete the other post. Anyway Wanted to give an Update on my Plan thanks to everyone's Feedback. Added something I forgot as well.

A+
Network+
MCTS: Windows 7 – Configuration
(Get a Help Desk Position)
CCENT/CCNA
MCITP:Server Administrator
Security+
CCNP
(Possible Network/Systems Admin Position?)
MCITP:Enterprise Adminstrator
Project+
CIW Web Foundations Associate (Just for WGU)
CIW JavaScript Specialist (Just for WGU)
Bachelors Degree in Science Network Design and Management Path
CCIE
(Network/Systems Engineer Position?)
EC-Council Disaster Recovery Professional Exam (312-76) (Just for WGU)
EC-Council Ethical Hacking and Countermeasures (EC0-350) (Just for WGU)
EC-Council Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator (EC0-349) (Just for WGU)
GIAC G2700 (Standards and Policies) (Just for WGU)
Masters Degree in Science Information Security and Assurance Path. OR a Brick and Mortar Masters in Science with a Network or Systems Emphasis
MBA (Yup MBA. Just a personal Goal. My dad has two Masters Degrees and I plan to match him )

Let me know if you have any questions or feedback.

tearofs

TLeTourneau wrote: »

Says the person with the CCNP and the MCSE!

Just had to say it....

Nice catch ! but I have almost lost all my MCSE knowledge.