CS, CSI, or IT related degree

parttimetechie

Can someone please explain to me how a Computer Science major would have more experience being a hardware tech or a helpdesk agent just because they got their degree in computer science? I've seen this a lot of places where companies want CS degrees, and for a history degree with lots of certifications and some fair experience, I don't understand what a CS major learns in college that makes him so damn qualified to do break fix work for a company.

joeykeis

Well in my Experience with the University of California system is that a CS Degree has the Science Requirement (Bio or Phys or Chem) and ontop of that you have to take all Maths up to Differential Equations and all Calc courses. So CS has way more schooling and all the computer classes are pretty much ALL programming. You wouldnt find a class called "Lets make a Website".
For example, the UC School System doesent even offer Information Systems as a degree , it is offered at the much lower tier state schools.
Information Systems is the (C) without the (S)cience. Does it make a difference? In my experience Sometimes yes Sometimes no.

erpadmin

A CS degree deals more with the theoretics and academics of Computers. As joey stated above, you're being prepped to become a programmer as opposed to a break/fix guy because you're going to need to logically solve a problem through application developing.

Any degree in the IT realm outside of CS (IT, IS, MIS, et. al) deals more with the practical issues of day to day IT. You might even see some business courses/project management thrown in there, because you are expected to learn how to budget in case you are ever the head honcho of an IT shop. These guys may also be that CS holder's boss. (No need to take my word for it....you can see on LinkedIn for yourself... )

To answer the OP's real gripe though.....

for a history degree with lots of certifications and some fair experience,

Are you talking about yourself? Or is A+/Net+ really all you have to stand on. May break-fix places will take a HS graduate (though that's becoming very, very rare). I've worked with college grads that were BIO majors or had a basketweaving degree (Philosophy.....) You don't need a CS degree to get into help desk, but you do need some drive to get in.

Akaricloud

CS is problem solving oriented which translates over to hardware problem solving very well. Additionally, CS students are forced to understand computer software and hardware much more than say a history major. At my university CS majors have at least a few classes about hardware in one form or another.

CS students typically just spend a LOT of time on a computer and usually have some sort of passion for them to begin with. I don't think I know any CS majors that wouldn't be qualified for a helpdesk position.

parttimetechie

No, I was talking in general. It just seems like the jobs I have gone up for I get knocked out by someone who has a CS degree which is why I question what CS major can do that I can't.

Devilry

parttimetechie wrote: »

No, I was talking in general. It just seems like the jobs I have gone up for I get knocked out by someone who has a CS degree which is why I question what CS major can do that I can't.

Are the hiring managers specifically telling you they are knocking you out of the running for someone
else who has a CS degree?

Zartanasaurus

parttimetechie wrote: »

I question what CS major can do that I can't.

Beat out people without degrees.

parttimetechie

Yes, they are saying that is why I did not get the job, is b/c someone else had the CS degree and I only had a History degree.

the_Grinch

In computer science you will get a lot of course in OS design and theory. On a helpdesk those courses alone will come in handy when trying to troubleshoot a problem a user is having. Plus (at least around my area) almost all the computer science programs cover networking as well. My buddy graduated from Rowan University with a Computer Science degree and specialized in Operating Systems and Networks. He worked on the helpdesk a long time prior to moving to a security position as a contractor. As others have said, it's rare to find someone who is a programmer, but cannot fix a computer as it does go hand in hand. I don't know how much experience you have, but if it's the first time entering the IT world a CS degree would probably beat the History degree and certs (if you have no experience).

parttimetechie

Well, I've got about six months of HD experience, and over a year of break fix, but I always seem to get belittled by the fact that I don't have that dang CS degree

Akaricloud

If employers aren't taking your experience or knowledge seriously then you could try to do a better job showing it during interviews or pick up some more certifications to prove it on paper.

parttimetechie

Ya, I'm prepping to take my MS 70 680 exam to get a big gun on my resume and hope that wakes some ppl up

Akaricloud

My MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician 7 from taking 70-680 and 70-685 really helped me when applying places.

parttimetechie

How so? Did people take you more seriously? Did you find you needed both of the exams for it to help, or was one enough? Haven't looked into 685 yet, not sure what that entails

qwertyiop

Akaricloud wrote: »

CS is problem solving oriented which translates over to hardware problem solving very well. Additionally, CS students are forced to understand computer software and hardware much more than say a history major. At my university CS majors have at least a few classes about hardware in one form or another.

CS students typically just spend a LOT of time on a computer and usually have some sort of passion for them to begin with. I don't think I know any CS majors that wouldn't be qualified for a helpdesk position.

I hate to say this but I have met many CS majors that couldn't cut it in IT positions due to not having that the hardware backround. Then again I know this one programmer with a a BS and MS in CS that is the exception. His knowledge of computing reaches far beyond most and even did his thesis on network protocols. I know of quite a few CS majors that dont even know half of what this guy knows.

parttimetechie

What were they lacking in HW skills? You mean how to take the stuff apart and put it back together again?

it_consultant

Someone with a CS degree is ill-suited to the type of work you described. The problem is that no one outside the industry understands what a computer science degree actually is. It has little to do with computers as we know and use them. A CS degree should be called something else, like circuit and machine code engineering or something. Even that title includes words that are alien to most people. Can someone with a CS degree diagnose a hardware problem better than someone without a CS degree as a result of what they learned in CS school? No, they can't. They can, however, prove competency in a math and science intensive degree, which is worth something. If you earned your CS degree you should be working in software or hardware development for a big company to gain the experience you need. If not, they should have a talk with me. People will continue to say a help desk job requries a CS degree and we will continue to ignore that until they wise up.

parttimetechie

I could not agree with you more. I wish we could get employeers to realize a CS degree DOES NOT make them more capable than someone who has specific certifications on the job at hand. I don't know who you are, where you live, or if you even are part of a company, but if you are hiring...can I come work for you?

the_Grinch

It truly depends on the school and the courses the person took. Most of the schools around here require a course in Operating Systems and Networks, while also offering specialization in those topics. Pretty much all of the computer science majors I know are working in support and doing it successfully. Some had experience, some didn't, all are still doing well. I think the ultimate roadblock you are hitting is the CS degree is considered a technical one and History is not. Obviously, you have experience so it shouldn't effect you as much. But sometimes companies are looking for a technical degree. I went to school with a guy who had been in the telcom industry for 15 years when he got laid off. He had a degree in music and was unable to find a job. He went back to school to get a technical degree and when he finished he got hired immediately. Given the number of graduates vs the number of applicants, companies can be as choosy as they like.

parttimetechie

Ya, I know the lack of a tech degree is killing me in this economy, but it just burns my butt that anyone outside of the industry has no idea what a comp sci major actually DOES.

the_Grinch

You're an anticompsci! Sorry couldn't resist. Use each failure as a guage for future success, continue with the experience and you'll soon find that you'll get positions where the degree will not matter. Only one of our Senior Engineers has a degree, the rest are all experienced techs and that's how they got their jobs. On our NOC/Helpdesk only three of us have degrees, one in business/mis, one in music, and me with the CST degree. One of our network engineers (who is probably one of the best Cisco guys I've ever worked with) is a former meat cutter! I joke with him sometimes, saying that not only will he setup and secure your network, he'll cut your ham paper thin for lunch. Yup I'm a jerk like that

parttimetechie

Everyone keeps telling me to just hang in there, but it is really frustrating when CS degreed ppl are getting jobs and I am not, even though I have experience and all they have is the degree.

it_consultant

You could always go and get the CS degree. I respect this is easier said than done but if you are having trouble finding work then a CS degree will opendoors for you. People at even mid-level schools pursuing their CS degrees are getting head-hunted their junior year in college and their median income isomething like $79K (heard this on NPR) upon graduation. That is why I say if you know people who have a CS degree who are doing helpdesk, they need to be talked too.

parttimetechie

Ya, I've thought about going back and getting a CS degree, but the probelm is like we have said, CS degrees have so much more involved in the math science component than I really want to get into.

the_Grinch

Perhaps you are looking at it the wrong way. I think the managers are telling you that they hired someone with a computer science degree so not to offend you by saying we hired someone with a technical degree. If they were to say someone with a technical degree, I think they figure you would be offended (which you rightfully should be based on your experience). So why not get a degree in information technology or information systems? You seem hung up on the computer science degree, but I think it's a fair assessment to say that if your degree was technical (IT, IS, MIS, whatever they may call a degree dealing with technology) they'd probably hire you. Given you are in California, I figure you can throw a rock and hit about 150 computer science grads from any number of great programs....

Firecell

it_consultant wrote: »

People at even mid-level schools pursuing their CS degrees are getting head-hunted their junior year in college and their median income is something like $79K (heard this on NPR) upon graduation.

This is great news! I look forward to being head hunted!

Chris:/*

It is a misconception that a CS degree is for programmers or that it is not for system administration or site system engineers. A CS degree is a computational theory degree and if you actually pay attention in school instead of just check-marking classes it will make you a world class support tech. Here is the difference between a CS grad and someone who just studies the tech. A CS grad can figure out the root cause of a device failure they have never been introduced to.

I can tell you that we have two degree types in my work center a CS or EE degree then all others. We want you to have a degree but we really prefer the above mentioned. I may have the title of senior system administrator but my job is closer to front line engineer.

Chris:/*

it_consultant wrote: »

Someone with a CS degree is ill-suited to the type of work you described. The problem is that no one outside the industry understands what a computer science degree actually is. It has little to do with computers as we know and use them. A CS degree should be called something else, like circuit and machine code engineering or something. Even that title includes words that are alien to most people. Can someone with a CS degree diagnose a hardware problem better than someone without a CS degree as a result of what they learned in CS school? No, they can't. They can, however, prove competency in a math and science intensive degree, which is worth something. If you earned your CS degree you should be working in software or hardware development for a big company to gain the experience you need. If not, they should have a talk with me. People will continue to say a help desk job requries a CS degree and we will continue to ignore that until they wise up.

Sorry you are very wrong.

Firecell

Chris:/* wrote: »

I can tell you that we have two degree types in my work center a CS or EE degree, then all others.

What is your opinion on Electrical Engineering (EE) degrees with an area of concentration of computer science/engineering in the IT field?

qwertyiop

I've met quite a few people with EE degrees in both the IT and INFOSEC world. EE degree arn't focused on IT but they tend give you a broad overview of many computer related topics not just circuit boards but also things like programming and even some mathematical theory similar to a CS major.

Chris:/*

Firecell wrote: »

What is your opinion on Electrical Engineering (EE) degrees with an area of concentration of computer science/engineering in the IT field?

An EE degree alone is respectable any concentration area can help focus your studies.