does age really matter in i.t??

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

They can get you with asking when you graduated high school.

Apparently, no, they can not. One might as well ask my date of birth outright, which would be illegal. The only thing they can ask is if I'm a minor, and with that I can say "no." Of course, I wouldn't yell out of the top of my lungs "THAT'S ILLEGAL!," but I would find a way to sidestep the high school question.

Illegal Interview Questions and How to Handle Them

Illegal Job Interview Questions - Job Interview Questions That Are Illegal

To avoid hiring particular persons because of the following types of information is legally discriminatory. It is illegal. While the following list may not include every single possibility of illegal information, generally these alternatives within certain questions are illegal to question:

- Age, unless you are under 18 and an employer does not/cannot hire minors. This includes date of graduation from high school and your birth date.

Despite all of that though, the rest of your annecdotes (whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant) are unfortunately a fact of life that older folks have to come to grips with. I'm not quite 40 yet, but I'll be there soon enough.

erpadmin

never2late wrote: »

So what do you think.... blonde, brunette, or redhead. Hell, I might just go Kojak. Oops, did I just date myself. Gotta be careful.

I used to watch Kojak when I was around 5... :P



BTW, since when are guys brunettes?

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

Apparently, no, they can not. One might as well ask my date of birth outright, which would be illegal. The only thing they can ask is if I'm a minor, and with that I can say "no." Of course, I wouldn't yell out of the top of my lungs "THAT'S ILLEGAL!," but I would find a way to sidestep the high school question.

Illegal Interview Questions and How to Handle Them

Illegal Job Interview Questions - Job Interview Questions That Are Illegal



Despite all of that though, the rest of your annecdotes (whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant) are unfortunately a fact of life that older folks have to come to grips with. I'm not quite 40 yet, but I'll be there soon enough.

There is theory ^this^ and there is reality, what I posted earlier. I never said it was legal, not once I did mention that. What I did say is that some companies ask for graduation dates for highschool and college. I just went through this the other day on a job board

Banging your chest about law doesn't discredit the fact that companies can and do practice this.

When you are driving down the highway is everyone driving the speed limit?

jakecitrix

would u let a teenager be in charhe of the whole i.t infrastructure???? Iif he has the skills and exp

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

There is theory ^this^ and there is reality, what I posted earlier. I never said it was legal, not once I did mention that. What I did say is that some companies ask for graduation dates for highschool and college. I just went through this the other day on a job board powered be TALEO

Banging your chest about law doesn't discredit the fact that companies can and do practice this.

Calm down there, buddy....I ask that you reread my post again.

I'm not going to get into college graduation....it's moot since you have folks in all stages of age getting a BS for the first time. High school is different, and while GED can certainly be questionable, it becomes moot for one if someone graduates college after getting one anyway.

All I was saying was that asking someone when they graduate high school is technically illegal. I wasn't even disagreeing with your bigger point about folks using Just For Men or Revlon hair coloring. The truth is that people are getting discriminated against because of their age. Do I think that's wrong....that's irrelevant (though I will say "yes, I do") Is it a fact of life, unfortunately, yes it is. Your own annectodes and many others validate that.

There's no chest thumping here....it just is what it is.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

Calm down there, buddy....I ask that you reread my post again.

I'm not going to get into college graduation....it's moot since you have folks in all stages of age getting a BS for the first time. High school is different, and while GED can certainly be questionable, it becomes moot for one if someone graduates college after getting one anyway.

All I was saying was that asking someone when they graduate high school is technically illegal. I wasn't even disagreeing with your bigger point about folks using Just For Men or Revlon hair coloring. The truth is that people are getting discriminated against because of their age. Do I think that's wrong....that's irrelevant (though I will say "yes, I do") Is it a fact of life, unfortunately, yes it is. Your own annectodes and many others validate that.

There's no chest thumping here....it just is what it is.

I think it's wrong no question about it. It pisses me off when older people get bounced for a job because they "won't fit the culture", which means you are to freaking old. I've seen that before talk about a gut wrencher.

I agree you are right I just seen this crap go on before. I've been on a team of hiring officials for personnel and heard all sorts of one off comments.


My apologizes if I over reacted it's not towards you it's towards the system.

vCole

jakecitrix wrote: »

would u let a teenager be in charhe of the whole i.t infrastructure???? Iif he has the skills and exp

Well to manage a whole IT Infrastructure you would need a few years experience depending on the size of the environment. So would I personally? No, I wouldn't. They would need to have the skills, experience and maturity to handle the position. This is 1.) Technical Skills 2.) Soft Skills 3.) Experience with both tech skills and soft skills/management experience. I highly doubt you'll find that in a teenager. I was 23 when I stepped into a management role myself.

Akaricloud

You'll find age discrimination in almost any career path. In IT, very young folks are viewed as inexperienced while very old are viewed as incapable of learning new technology. An employer isn't ever going to tell you that you're too young or too old for a position but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact on hiring, even if only subconsciously.

The other aspect to this is company culture. Cultural generation gaps can make working with different generations more difficult and less fun. Since companies are trying to find not only a capable employee but also one that fits into their company well, they will often favor a candidate that is close to the general age of everyone else.

Age matters.

instant000

Just to be clear, I myself have no age bias of my own. However, I have indeed observed age bias.

Don't want people to think I'm an "ageist". If I'm blessed, I'll be "old" one day too!

If I don't make it to be "old" my counter-argument is "The good ones die young!"

XeeN

jakecitrix wrote: »

does ur age really matter in i.t like in ur job etc or in certs or education''???

1. You need to be able to communicate clearly. This is important in any job. To me, your style of writing conveys an immature, unprofessional air. If you can be professional and mature, your numerical age will be less of an issue.

2. Unfortunately many younger people are immature and unprofessional. Many also tend to have less respect for authority or their peers. Many also have fewer pressing responsibilities in life (spouse, children, mortgage payments). These pressures help move people into being stable workers who want to do whatever they can to advance in their career and keep their job.

3. The master may get better work from an untrained apprentice than from a skilled rebel.

Edit: I'm speaking from my position as a Manager who has hired younger and older IT professionals.

badrottie

XeeN wrote: »

1. You need to be able to communicate clearly. This is important in any job. To me, your style of writing conveys an immature, unprofessional air. If you can be professional and mature, your numerical age will be less of an issue.

2. Unfortunately many younger people are immature and unprofessional. Many also tend to have less respect for authority or their peers. Many also have fewer pressing responsibilities in life (spouse, children, mortgage payments). These pressures help move people into being stable workers who want to do whatever they can to advance in their career and keep their job.

3. The master may get better work from an untrained apprentice than from a skilled rebel.

Edit: I'm speaking from my position as a Manager who has hired younger and older IT professionals.

Age is just a number. I have worked with some very professional, emotionally mature and competent young adults. I have worked with some surprisingly unprofessional, emotionally juvenile and incompetent adults.

Judge the person on who they are as an individual, no more, no less. I find that in my environment, age is not a discriminator, as understanding of business risk and impact is shaped by experience (both in life and at work). Admittedly, if I had to go and do some work as a Security Engineer on the latest whiz-bang technology, I would need some time to get up to speed, but who wouldn't?

I have seen first hand when organizations are filled with young guns without perspective, discipline or experience. Likewise, I have seen many organizations that are the inverse, where the business culture is stagnant and a throwback to another antediluvian era. The best companies blend both cultures, and are the most adaptable. Accordingly, to achieve that, you need the full-spectrum of employees, ages, cultures and experience. Sadly, very few companies meet this criteria, and fall short in one way or the other.

powerfool

I think it depends on the position. If you want a senior engineering role or above, it is highly unlikely that you are going to get it if you are younger. A lot of that has to do with the fact that you won't have the experience to get into that role. However, I started working in IT at 18 years old, and I have always looked older than my age. I have had two instances where my age has been a factor in limiting my success, once it was discovered:

1) About five years ago: I worked on a team of three, a help desk sort of person, the CTO, and me the systems/network administrator. I got the job with little effort... interviews went fantastic. My boss fancied himself as Gregory House, but he certainly wasn't. Anyhow, after working there for a little under a year, my boss gave me a raise after coming back from vacation after finding how self-sufficient, proficient, and diligent I was. He thought it was "OK" to let down his guard and become friends... at which point he asked how old I was, point-blank... I answered... 25. After that, it was all downhill. I had a horrible annual review and no raise.... just after getting one out of cycle! He pulled the experience card on me in one discussion ("Well, you don't have 15 years of experience, like I do...") Anyhow... I was pushed out of that job. I really liked some of the things that I was exposed to there because he had a huge customer base despite the small size of our team, so our budget warranted getting large SANs and disaster recovery setup... something I had previously not been exposed to.

2) About three years ago: At the next job, I was on a larger team of six, including two help desk folks, two developers, the IT director, and myself. We also had contractors that helped with development stuff. Prior to my arrival, consultants did most of the networking work, as well. After a year, I was offered a substantial raise to go elsewhere.... I let my boss know and he matched it, so I stayed. About four months later, he was fired (he deserved to be... pretty incompetent guy, really). Well, over that period of time, we reported to the CFO. Things were going fantastic and I was the go to guy on the team (I was in the senior role, as well). We upgraded several of our major systems and implemented my DR and virtualization strategy without any incident... I saved $500k for the next five years... which is pretty good since we had a $1.3m/year budget. I felt like I was a shoe-in for the IT Director position. Later the CFO asked how old I was... and based on the previous situation, I declined to tell him... he snooped around until he found out and I didn't get the job. Our new boss came on and I worked through the growing pains of the situation and even received a title promotion. That boss left (after nine months) and I thought that maybe now was the time... so I applied again... and nothing.

I blame both incidents on age, but I am not pursuing it. Sure, it is illegal and wrong (in my opinion), but do you really want to work in an environment like that? Anyhow, I grew from both positions and earned a good living that provided for my family. I am now one of three senior folks on a $450m five-year contract (labor, hardware, and software licensing) with a team of about 40 people. After leaving this position, I could easily get an IT Manager/Director position just about anywhere.

SteveO86

jakecitrix wrote: »

would u let a teenager be in charhe of the whole i.t infrastructure???? Iif he has the skills and exp

Next question how is a teenager suppose to have the "experience"? Their is a difference between experience in production and experience in labs or books.

hackman2007

I think age is a case by case basis.

You can't lump everyone in to a certain group and expect the people to be similar. For example, I'm in the Millennial generation, but I work extremely hard, am not a partyer, don't drink, respect authority and show up to work on time.

Each generation is stereotyped.