Anyone stuck in a job where you're getting dumber and dumber?

N2IT

JockVSJock wrote: »

Hey man, I feel your pain.

For the last 10 to 12 years, I have struggled trying to advance out of the help desk position into some sort of sys admin/network engineer position.

I've tried a number of things like some of the others on this thread to advance, like:

-Getting my Masters in MIS and not getting any hands on or real experience to back it, so basically I'm still in the help desk role. Basically the college oversold the degree and I fell for it
-Trying to home lab and putting that on my resume on to be told that only real world experience matters
-Trying to work as a business analysis which I wouldn't recommend, especially if you like technology

It also bothers me too to see the lazy employees, who aren't engaged or studying on their free time for certs/degrees to be mysteriously promoted to sys admins/network engineers.

What kills me the most is that I'm told that I have great people skills. DUH!!! You have to have that skillset in any type of job.

I just don't understand why the jump from help desk to sys admin/network engineer is so difficult for people who want to make that jump.

You mention that you were a BA at one time, but are now back in help desk?

I was just curious if you would rather be a BA over a helpdesk tech? Personally for me I like both business and IT and would gladly jump at a business position over the help desk. But that's just me.

I am just curious of how your situation played out. With an MBA/MIS I would think that would be right up your alley. Especially since you have been in your industry for quite sometime.

keenon

Um, there is always free time and down time. As others mentioned try to get the kid to bed earlier. I have 3 and did it while preparing for certs. Most of my certs I did while my youngest was 6mo to 3 years old. I had decided to give up 2 hrs of sleep 1 in the morning and 1 at night to study(still got to spend time with the wife).

Guess what lunch time is down time. Anytime your watching your favorite show downtime. Sleep is downtime. No one can tell you what to do with your time but make the most of it you can't get any of it back

Turgon

advanex1 wrote: »

I have 3. There's always the time, you may not have the energy, but you have the time. Everything all depends on how bad you want something, if you want it bad enough, you sacrifice other things. If family time isn't okay for you to sacrifice, then it's sleep. It's all about balance and there is always time to get things done.

It really depends. You can make time by depriving yourself of sleep but that can be antisocial at home for the rest of the family, and you need to ensure you get enough rest to be able to function properly in the long day ahead. Everybody has different requirements and demands on their time at work and at home.

advanex1

Turgon wrote: »

It really depends. You can make time by depriving yourself of sleep but that can be antisocial at home for the rest of the family, and you need to ensure you get enough rest to be able to function properly in the long day ahead. Everybody has different requirements and demands on their time at work and at home.

I'm not sure how that would make you anti-social at home. I realize that people function differently, but the way that I learned to function on less sleep was to do it. It doesn't affect my job or my ability to function. As with any process, it takes time, but I also know that people take their "down time" to "relax" when that is the time to really take hold of what you're trying to accomplish.

I'm not saying go on 4 hours of sleep, but I am saying that you don't need 8 a night. I typically get 5-6 a night. That's up at 0430 and down at 2230 or 2330. Like I said, it's all about sacrifice and balance because like you, I agree that everyone has different requirements and demands but I also know that everyone can accomplish what they want to accomplish regardless of the situation in which they find themselves.

DevilWAH

keenon wrote: »

Um, there is always free time and down time. As others mentioned try to get the kid to bed earlier. I have 3 and did it while preparing for certs. Most of my certs I did while my youngest was 6mo to 3 years old. I had decided to give up 2 hrs of sleep 1 in the morning and 1 at night to study(still got to spend time with the wife).

Not alwasy possible o have down time, I am not defendig laziness here, and agree that you have to make time to move forward. But gettat a baby to bed early is easy to say not always possible to do. For three months of my daughters early life she did not sleep more that 6 hours in any 24hr period, add to that a wife in hospital with internal abseses from the emergency cesarean she had to have. and I can vouch for having to live for extended periods with out any down time. use to wake up laying on the nursery floor, daughter in arms and still in yesturdays work clothes.

I think what is clear from this thread though is that its not what you do with your down time, its simple that you do some thing with it, and not jsut wast it waiting for things to happen.

blargoe

I'm getting dumber, fatter and older. I can't attribute that ENTIRELY to my job, though.

Yeah, as your family starts to grow and the kids get older, the lack of energy and sacrificing of one thing over another because of time constraints only gets worse. I'm totally bored in my job right now, but I don't have the energy to go all kamikaze on upping all of my certs, plus my wife thinks every minute that I am awake and not at work, that I am supposed to be making her life easier, my personal need to mentally decompress after the kids go to bed or the need to get non-domestic chores around the house be damned. I feel like I'm being pressed to get a different job because the "little woman" thinks I should be home at 5:30 every day without exception and fully participate in getting the kids ready for school every morning, and there is no way in hell I will be able to take the next step up in my career and not cause further animosity between us.

At least your wife is somewhat understanding.

Turgon

advanex1 wrote: »

I'm not sure how that would make you anti-social at home. I realize that people function differently, but the way that I learned to function on less sleep was to do it. It doesn't affect my job or my ability to function. As with any process, it takes time, but I also know that people take their "down time" to "relax" when that is the time to really take hold of what you're trying to accomplish.

I'm not saying go on 4 hours of sleep, but I am saying that you don't need 8 a night. I typically get 5-6 a night. That's up at 0430 and down at 2230 or 2330. Like I said, it's all about sacrifice and balance because like you, I agree that everyone has different requirements and demands but I also know that everyone can accomplish what they want to accomplish regardless of the situation in which they find themselves.

It can be anti-social at home if your wife doesn't appreciate going to bed alone and having you hit the sack at 2am. Similarly it might keep the children up. It really all depends on the individual family dynamics people have, and some people do need 8 hours of sleep a night or they are not well rested. It all depends.

keenon

DevilWAH wrote: »

Not alwasy possible o have down time, I am not defendig laziness here, and agree that you have to make time to move forward. But gettat a baby to bed early is easy to say not always possible to do. For three months of my daughters early life she did not sleep more that 6 hours in any 24hr period, add to that a wife in hospital with internal abseses from the emergency cesarean she had to have. and I can vouch for having to live for extended periods with out any down time. use to wake up laying on the nursery floor, daughter in arms and still in yesturdays work clothes.

I think what is clear from this thread though is that its not what you do with your down time, its simple that you do some thing with it, and not jsut wast it waiting for things to happen.

No one said it was easy at all but I saw what I needed to do. Yep waking up at 5am every morning sucked, going to bed at 11pm and not 10 sucked. Not having lunch with friends and co-workers sucked. Not watching TV well there's nothing but propaganda and mindless stuff on anyway. I have been doing this over 7 yrs and I don't need an alarm clock anymore

By the way my wife had the same thing happen with our youngest. I can sympathize with you on it.

Turgon

blargoe wrote: »

I'm getting dumber, fatter and older. I can't attribute that ENTIRELY to my job, though.

Yeah, as your family starts to grow and the kids get older, the lack of energy and sacrificing of one thing over another because of time constraints only gets worse. I'm totally bored in my job right now, but I don't have the energy to go all kamikaze on upping all of my certs, plus my wife thinks every minute that I am awake and not at work, that I am supposed to be making her life easier, my personal need to mentally decompress after the kids go to bed or the need to get non-domestic chores around the house be damned. I feel like I'm being pressed to get a different job because the "little woman" thinks I should be home at 5:30 every day without exception and fully participate in getting the kids ready for school every morning, and there is no way in hell I will be able to take the next step up in my career and not cause further animosity between us.

At least your wife is somewhat understanding.

Hehhehe..I feel your angst. Wives do have a tendency to have plans for us when the working day is done. I can imagine the rebellion I would face should I attempt to hog the best hours of a Saturday or Sunday to do a rack session, when there is shopping to do, chores to catchup on and family time to catchup on to give my wife a hand with the kids. I know exactly what you mean about needing to mentally decompress. From 7am - 8:30pm its intense work and meetings then kids mealtime, bathtime, bedtime. Sometimes my work eats into personal time in the evenings as well. After that both my wife and I are usually whacked.

DevilWAH

11 rather than 10??? man I can't remebmer the last time i went to bed before 1am!!

Baby in bed at 7:30 -8, wife follows at about 9:30 leaving me time to study/lean or sometime just watch a film

"Everyone can accomplish what they want to accomplish regardless of the situation in which they find themselves."

Sorry Advanex but that is a foolish statment to make. Go and tell that to a farmer whos family is starving becasue there has been no rain and his cattle have died. Yes that an extreem example but it all a question of scale.

advanex1

DevilWAH wrote: »

11 rather than 10??? man I can't remebmer the last time i went to bed before 1am!!

Baby in bed at 7:30 -8, wife follows at about 9:30 leaving me time to study/lean or sometime just watch a film

"Everyone can accomplish what they want to accomplish regardless of the situation in which they find themselves."

Sorry Advanex but that is a foolish statment to make. Go and tell that to a farmer whos family is starving becasue there has been no rain and his cattle have died. Yes that an extreem example but it all a question of scale.

Devil, it's not foolish. If their goal is to provide for their family, they will do whatever is necessary regardless of the situation to try and provide for them. Just because it takes them out of their normal "job" doesn't mean that they are not able to accomplish the overall goal. I'm a firm believer in you can do whatever you want to do if you put your mind to it. Just one mans opinion.

SteveLord

advanex1 wrote: »

Devil, it's not foolish. If their goal is to provide for their family, they will do whatever is necessary regardless of the situation to try and provide for them. Just because it takes them out of their normal "job" doesn't mean that they are not able to accomplish the overall goal. I'm a firm believer in you can do whatever you want to do if you put your mind to it. Just one mans opinion.

Got to agree with this.

DevilWAH

advanex1 wrote: »

I'm a firm believer in you can do whatever you want to do if you put your mind to it. Just one mans opinion.

I think i have some think kind of simular sumed up best by

"Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.
"

Not that you can achive what ever you want, some things are out side our control, but you can certantly chose your actions.

Turgon

advanex1 wrote: »

Devil, it's not foolish. If their goal is to provide for their family, they will do whatever is necessary regardless of the situation to try and provide for them. Just because it takes them out of their normal "job" doesn't mean that they are not able to accomplish the overall goal. I'm a firm believer in you can do whatever you want to do if you put your mind to it. Just one mans opinion.

Well in a crisis situation you do what you have to do and usually everyone is pulling in the same direction. When it comes to improving ones career options sometimes some balance is needed particularly if what you have planned, in my case the CCIE, is going to be a big invader of private time not only for myself but the whole family.

I already have a very important job that asks a lot of me in terms of focus, hours and effort. So it's vital Im on top form at work. Burning the midnight oil is often the last thing I should do with the decisions at stake that I need to help reach in the office the next day. I also find it necessary to disconnect in the evenings and spend time with the family and particularly at the weekends when my wife has been busy all week with the kids. Sometimes turning and burning late night rack sessions isn't always practical or wise.

In the senior ranks a happy homelife is very condusive to success in the long run and for that you need rest and time away from work and studies, time for yourself, and time for the family. I work hard and put the hours in, and I study hard when the opportunity allows, but those other times are important also in the long run. Hammering out a pressurised schedule at work, then hammering out a study regime until 1am at the expense of R&R, disconnect and family time has minted CCIE's, but many more candidates have fallen by the wayside with that approach, under performing at work and incurring issues in their personal lives. I still haven't passed the lab, but Im close. Meantime the last few years I have got married, we are now raising two kids, I have had three jobs changes, one Internationally and all a step up in responsibility, gained a lot of experience and certainly increases in income, been commended for my work, moved to a bigger apartment, and we are happy at home. Everyone's milage varies, and it pays to balance everything out.

JockVSJock

N2IT wrote: »

You mention that you were a BA at one time, but are now back in help desk?

I was back in the help desk role for almost 5 years, couldn't get promoted. So I'm in the US Military now, doing IT work.

N2IT wrote: »

I was just curious if you would rather be a BA over a helpdesk tech? Personally for me I like both business and IT and would gladly jump at a business position over the help desk. But that's just me.

If I had to, I would do help desk over BA. To me, BA is a total mess, where companies are hostile to new systems that are trying to be rolled out, and in some cases where management are working to sabotage roll out too. Also, don't forge the end-users who are hostile to any change and unwilling to learn or change the way they think or do their work on a day-to-day basis.

In every BA position I've had, I've basically have been a body just do some sort of data cleanup, and if I made a recommendation to write a script or an improvement to lessen my workload, I was told to get back to my data cleanup. My last and final BA position, I did 9 months of data cleanup, and when I quit I told my manager they should have hired a temp. Of course, she had no clue what I did on a day-to-day basis either. She wasn't a tech, had no higher education, and basically became a manager by default because she had been with the company for close to 30 years.

I am just curious of how your situation played out. With an MBA/MIS I would think that would be right up your alley. Especially since you have been in your industry for quite sometime.

For me, I've always liked tech and want to be a sys admin/network engineer, and its proving quite difficult to move in this career direction. I wince and shake my head as I write this post up.

Tackle

What I want to know is how you all can function on less than 8 hours of sleep? Between the normal stress life brings, as well as the added stress from work I feel very tired when I get home.

By the time 9 O'clock rolls around my eyes start to get heavy so I start getting ready for bed and hit the pillow no later than 10pm...then it's sawing logs till 6:30am unless I have to pee.

If I struggle to fall alseep (thinking about work), I am beat the next day and can't focus. I think you guys must take it easy during the day to run on such little sleep . Jk.

Rockets34Life

SteveLord wrote: »

I can't believe people with only 1 kid feel they have "no time." Seriously? And you're able to put money away and get your house paid off in the near future? I am doing my best to hold back at the ridiculousness here.

If you're feeling "dumber", that is your issue. So work to fix it. Sometimes you can't always have a perfect world where everything is awesome at home AND at work. There's already a lot of politically correct advice here to get around that...so here's at least 1 brutally honest response to soak in.

Making time and taking care of my child is important to me. My money management - I think about the future and I save as much as I can while taking care of my family. I'm not sure how your lavish your lifestyle is, but I'm focused on giving my family a comfortable life when we have no debt.

My career, it used to be my primary in life, but things have changed. I still want to advance my career, but I will have to make time to knock out some studying to better myself. For my job, I know it's my issue that I feel dumber being here each and every second. Literally I knock out the problems that are given to me and the rest of the time, I just surf the Internet. You would think I could use that time to study, but each time I try, I'm interrupted by a phone call or someone walking up to my cube. So there is no point to study at work.

I have explained my situation in the beginning of this thread and there really isn't much I can do except find another job with hopes for advancement. But since I can't find one, hopefully with my studying and achieving extra certs, it can advance me to another job.

Akaricloud

LucasMN wrote: »

What I want to know is how you all can function on less than 8 hours of sleep? Between the normal stress life brings, as well as the added stress from work I feel very tired when I get home.

By the time 9 O'clock rolls around my eyes start to get heavy so I start getting ready for bed and hit the pillow no later than 10pm...then it's sawing logs till 6:30am unless I have to pee.

If I struggle to fall alseep (thinking about work), I am beat the next day and can't focus. I think you guys must take it easy during the day to run on such little sleep . Jk.

It's just something that you get used to. Force yourself to do it for a couple weeks and your body will adjust.

I usually try for 6 hours but 4 seems to be enough to still fully function.

veritas_libertas

I can't believe how many of you are speaking harshly to him. I'm a new father and I understand exactly how he feels. His questions are understandable, and hardly worthy of being verbally slapped across the face. I hardly think he was complaining about having a family to take care of.

On to the OP's question: For me it was a harsh reality to learn that I now have much less time to study for university/certifications. Like eating an elephant it's done one bite at a time. I get about an hour each day to study, and then on Saturday and Sunday I put in more time to study. If I have down time during work I will often hit some study videos and do a quiz here and there. I'm one of those folks that needs at least seven hours sleep to function properly so I cannot stay up late to study.

As far as getting out of a dead-end job, consider looking for a similar job that offers more opportunities. You may be able to find a job that places you in a position where you fix and work on a little of everything.

DevilWAH

Akaricloud wrote: »

It's just something that you get used to. Force yourself to do it for a couple weeks and your body will adjust.

I usually try for 6 hours but 4 seems to be enough to still fully function.

This actuly goes aginst all current scientific research in to sleep. It is generaly considered that for the optimum conitive function a person should have at least 7 hours sleep per night. I use to happly "Function" on 3 to 4 ours per night, , but that does not mean I preformed at my best.

Try getting 8 hours sleep every night for a few weeks and then revalulate, there are many psycholigical and physical symptoms that lack of sleep can cause, incress stress, problems with hormone inbalance, low immune responces. It is generaly agreed that any less than 5hours per night is potentialy damaging to the body it if continued over long periods. And has a negitive affect congitive ability during waking hours.

If you drink a pint of wisky a day you will soon get use to it after a few weeks and be able to function, I know plenty of alcholics who hold down a job, and they are happy to argue it does not affect them. But how many people would agree that they preform just as well as if they gave it up.. Just becasue you body gets use to lack of sleep does not mean it gets back to where it was before.

Akaricloud

DevilWAH wrote: »

This actuly goes aginst all current scientific research in to sleep. It is generaly considered that for the optimum conitive function a person should have at least 7 hours sleep per night. I use to happly "Function" on 3 to 4 ours per night, , but that does not mean I preformed at my best.

Try getting 8 hours sleep every night for a few weeks and then revalulate, there are many psycholigical and physical symptoms that lack of sleep can cause, incress stress, problems with hormone inbalance, low immune responces. It is generaly agreed that any less than 5hours per night is potentialy damaging to the body it if continued over long periods. And has a negitive affect congitive ability during waking hours.

If you drink a pint of wisky a day you will soon get use to it after a few weeks and be able to function, I know plenty of alcholics who hold down a job, and they are happy to argue it does not affect them. But how many people would agree that they preform just as well as if they gave it up.. Just becasue you body gets use to lack of sleep does not mean it gets back to where it was before.

Yes there's definitely some tradeoff to cutting back sleep that much but I haven't experienced many drawbacks at all. Sure, I may only function at 95% but I also have 25% more time. Overall that makes it very worthwhile in my opinion. I've done this through my 4+ years of college and during summer, when I did sleep a lot, I noticed no added benefits from the additional sleep.

Most all sleep research indicates that there is no magic amount of time that everyone needs to sleep. It varies individual to individual and your results may vary but that's not to say that it isn't worth a try.

Turgon

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I can't believe how many of you are speaking harshly to him. I'm a new father and I understand exactly how he feels. His questions are understandable, and hardly worthy of being verbally slapped across the face. I hardly think he was complaining about having a family to take care of.

My wife and I both found that freetime evaporated quickly once the children came along. I still study but other things have to take priority.

veritas_libertas

Turgon wrote: »

My wife and I both found that freetime evaporated quickly once the children came along. I still study but other things have to take priority.

Yup. I use to be able to put in a good three hours of study and than spend another 2-3 hrs with my wife before bed. Those extra hours are gone for at least another seventeen years.

onesaint

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Yup. I use to be able to put in a good three hours of study and than spend another 2-3 hrs with my wife before bed. Those extra hours are gone for at least another seventeen years.

Nah, at about 14 they stop wanting much to do with you and start hiding in their room whenever possible. Everything becomes on a "need to know" basis (i.e., "What did you do today?" "Nothing." or other such vague one word statements). All the sudden those 3+ hours are yours again and you didn't even ask for them!

jkongbonme

Rockets34Life wrote: »

That's the case for me....made a mistake taking this desktop administrator job (which ended up being just senior level help desk) and not learning a damn thing.

It just feels like I'm clocking in, doing repetitive crap, and clocking out everyday.

I want to improve my skills after hours, but it's tough when you have a 8-month old. I get up everyday at 6:30a, feed my daughter, get ready and go to work from 8-5, pick my daughter up from daycare at 5:30, be home at 6p and watch her til' 7:30p. Then my wife comes home and we have to take care of my daughter until 10pm when she goes to bed. That gives me every night just a little over an hour to relax from the day and start over the next day. Weekends....well, that's taken up by my daughter and my wife. Just don't know where to find the time.

I'm trying to get out of this help desk/desktop support pigeon-holed crap of a field and move on to system/network administration.

What do I do?

P.S. - For anyone who cares, I didn't get the healthcare gig...

I'm in similar situation here acepted the job in RF designing becuase they paid good but I don't really enjoy my working. Not much in advance learning skill from job, get bored, and no advance opportunity available. I used to love doing networking type of job however I still have chance and work hard toward advance my education, got several certs and still continuing to ramp up some CCNA and Security certs shortly. What I want to say is if you can stay focus and give yourself sometimes to advance your skill and education you will soon overcome these obstacles. Keep in mind family is your motivators so you can be success in your career. Don't give up there are many online classes are being offer, take little step at a time soon you will be amazed what you have accomphished. Good luck!