Glass Ceilings

lsud00d

Do they exist everywhere? How high does the ceiling go, in your experience?

Have you made the best of yourself, all things considered (personal happiness, income, knowledge earned&gained, etc) by moving up within a company, by leap-frogging in and out of a company, or by going from company to company?

What says y'all about this workplace phenomenon? Questions, comments, and stories are encouraged

erpadmin

Don't let anyone kid you, that glass ceiling exists. It is very difficult to move on to the next phase of your career without some sort of degree. That whole "experience in lieu of degree" jazz is pretty much non-existent. Ten years ago, that wasn't the case. Today is a different story. I am done with lateral moves.

I had to "leap-frog" early in my career JUST to get the salary I enjoy today. Now I want to see IT management and it is difficult, if not impossible to get in that game without a degree. I'm hoping that my WGU degree changes that or at the most, a Master's.

Priston

lsud00d wrote: »

Have you made the best of yourself, all things considered (personal happiness, income, knowledge earned&gained, etc) by moving up within a company, by leap-frogging in and out of a company, or by going from company to company?

No I have not made the best of myself, I'm unsure were my personal happiness comes from, I have low income, I wish I had a B.S. degree and CCNA, etc. Moving up in the companies I work(ed) for wouldn't help my ultimate goal.

Instead of trying to get a computer repair job at bestbuy or some other pc repair shop while going to school, I worked at a grocery store for 5 years.
When I graduated high school I felt like if I went to a university I would be setting myself up to fail. So instead I decided to go to community college which for me was a good learning experience but outside of that learning experience no one seems to care about a AAS degree.
Instead of finding employment directly related to my education I can only find employment indirectly related to my education, pulling cat 5e and other network cable.
I get to touch routers and switches but only when i'm plugging in patch cables and mounting them on racks.
If I wanted to go back to school now, I'd have to pay out of state tuition and take 4 classes at a community college in order to transfer credits.

Sorry about the depressing post but you did ask

joehalford01

I haven't hit it yet, but I'm still growing in the no-degree part of my career. I think I'm going to seriously consider going to WGU after I get my MCITP.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

Don't let anyone kid you, that glass ceiling exists. It is very difficult to move on to the next phase of your career without some sort of degree. That whole "experience in lieu of degree" jazz is pretty much non-existent. Ten years ago, that wasn't the case. Today is a different story. I am done with lateral moves.

I had to "leap-frog" early in my career JUST to get the salary I enjoy today. Now I want to see IT management and it is difficult, if not impossible to get in that game without a degree. I'm hoping that my WGU degree changes that or at the most, a Master's.

I trust your judgement when it comes to this, you have experienced it, I have not. I went straight to college out of high school. I will say this though, not having a masters has hurt me on some mid level management jobs. I don't have quantitative proof but it just has that feel. Jobs I had every requirement pegged except for the 'MBA or Master perferred'. I'm sure you have seen this as well.

I think that's my glass ceiling along with experience.

You get that degree you will be in a different world.

I am seriously thinking about the MBA from WGU. After pricing top 25 Universities I can't stomach the amount of debt it would put me back into. I have been paying on my student loans since 2000 and still owe 3,500.

With WGU I can have those paided off relatively quickly. You look at UofM Ross business or Carlson business school you are talking 60,000 in state tuition 110,000 out of state.

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

With WGU I can have those paided off relatively quickly. You look at UofM Ross business or Carlson business school you are talking 60,000 in state tuition 110,000 out of state.

Yeah, the WGU tuition is practically pennies compared to the in-state tuition in NJ (or others). The cheapest NJ state school is like 20K+ for a year...compared to WGU's ~6k.

I've been working a longer time than you have though...even without a degree, I do have quantitative proof as I've written and consulted with management RFPs, and have done ROI cost analysis. I don't really need a MS to get into management (I don't think), but it does help. I also want to adjunct teach though...and that's partly why I've strayed away from the MBA. Working with academics will do that to you....lmao.

Everyone

You're all a woman or a minority? I kind of have a feeling that the term "Glass Ceiling" was misunderstood here. The phenomenon occurs more for women than anything else.

ehnde

Everyone wrote: »

You're all a woman or a minority? I kind of have a feeling that the term "Glass Ceiling" was misunderstood here. The phenomenon occurs more for women than anything else.

Yep, you're right.

Noun:An unofficially acknowledged barrier to advancement in a profession, esp. affecting women and members of minorities.

That being said, I'm getting paid better in my line of work and also finding it much easier to find work than people comparable to me minus the degree even if the guy sitting next to me is more qualified based on his past experience.(verified this by discussing salaries with co-workers, which is an artificially imposed taboo subject by HR/contracting firms). No degree? Yeah, you're probably getting paid less than the guy with a degree.

Everyone

ehnde wrote: »

That being said, I'm getting paid better in my line of work and also finding it much easier to find work than people comparable to me minus the degree even if the guy sitting next to me is more qualified based on his past experience.(verified this by discussing salaries with co-workers, which is an artificially imposed taboo subject by HR/contracting firms). No degree? Yeah, you're probably getting paid less than the guy with a degree.

My experience has been the opposite, although I am what most people would consider "the exception to the rule". I have no degree, and have found myself making more than my co-workers that do have degrees everywhere I've been. Either I've started out higher to begin with, or I pass them up when it comes time for annual performance reviews, by outperforming them, and getting a higher raise.

My veteran status very loosely puts me in the minority category.

There's really only one time I could think of that lack of degree presented a "glass ceiling" affect for me. It was at my last job. I had responsibilities that were far above my title and pay. I asked that my title and pay be changed to reflect my actual responsibilities. I was told that the chances of that happening were very low because I didn't have a degree. Really? That's funny considering I was already doing the work without the degree. Plus the fact that I was already making more than other people in my office who did have a degree.

lsud00d

Everyone wrote: »

You're all a woman or a minority? I kind of have a feeling that the term "Glass Ceiling" was misunderstood here. The phenomenon occurs more for women than anything else.

On the sociological scale, you are correct--however, I have extended it's connotation to comply with any work-place situation where vertical rung movement become difficult to near-impossible...which it seems that most people replying understand.

erpadmin

Everyone wrote: »

You're all a woman or a minority? I kind of have a feeling that the term "Glass Ceiling" was misunderstood here. The phenomenon occurs more for women than anything else.

You know, I never factored race or gender into a "glass ceiling." I always attributed my lack of a six-digit salary/management gig to the fact that I don't have a degree. In that sense, and reading the wiki on it, I guess there is a race component and gender component, but I NEVER had put any thought to either into the glass ceiling equation.

If we minus the term "glass ceiling" out though, all things being equal, someone with a degree and experience will trump the same person with just experience.

I really don't want to get into race and gender, as that's a can of worms I'd like to not see opened.

petedude

N2IT wrote: »

I am seriously thinking about the MBA from WGU. After pricing top 25 Universities I can't stomach the amount of debt it would put me back into. I have been paying on my student loans since 2000 and still owe 3,500.

With WGU I can have those paid off relatively quickly. You look at UofM Ross business or Carlson business school you are talking 60,000 in state tuition 110,000 out of state.

Amen to this, and what Erp said. Let me ramble on about this for a moment.

I was gravitating toward the WGU MBA-ITM, but I thought I'd like a little more variety on the CV. Then DETC fever took hold, and I nearly latched on to a couple DETC schools (the less useful national accreditation, not regionally accredited like WGU) because those schools are cheaper. Most of them, though, are not "cheaper enough" to be worth the dice roll. (When Aspen University had their $3500 master's, that was the bomb-- too bad I wasn't ready to take advantage of that.) A DETC school would cost $10K, a decent open enrollment RA master's will start at about $13-15K. If I had spent $10K on a DETC diploma and missed out on a killer job requiring an RA diploma, my wife would have killed me. Yes, state schools are extremely cheap for residents, but I didn't want to have to deal with workloads/scheduling issues/entrance exams. I've also put aside the notion of an MBA for now, figuring it would be best when I can pay for a better name school if possible and I have time to handle the work.

WGU's master's degrees are a fantastic option for many students here on TE, and in reality is probably the next best thing to a state school (IS literally a state school in some places).

And to the OP's point, "glass ceiling" is not the best phrase, but there is a ceiling to advancement without degrees nonetheless. I like what Penelope Trunk said in her blog-- an earnings problem is often a learning problem. I have a strange feeling I will hear back on more opportunities once I finish my BS, let alone my master's.

erpadmin

petedude wrote: »

WGU's master's degrees are a fantastic option for many students here on TE, and in reality is probably the next best thing to a state school (IS literally a state school in some places).

Indiana, Washington (state), and Texas.

SOOOOOON, this state:

Florida

How do I know? Look up WGU's trademark applications here:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/

Click on "Basic Word Mark Search (New User)"

Use WGU as a query and search

You will see WGU Florida there.


In Google, you will find this:

http://www.fldoe.org/articulation/pdf/WesternGovernorsAg.pdf


Back to the thread though, I guess we should call this something else instead of a glass ceiling.

lsud00d

I tried to change the subject but I couldn't...?

erpadmin

Contact

I'm sure he'll hook it up.

Alif_Sadida_Ekin

erpadmin wrote: »

Indiana, Washington (state), and Texas.

SOOOOOON, this state:

Florida

How do I know? Look up WGU's trademark applications here:

Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)


You can google WGU Florida and see that the state filing, etc., has already begun.

Back to the thread though, I guess we should call this something else instead of a glass ceiling.

This is good news for me. PM sent.

N2IT

Everyone wrote: »

You're all a woman or a minority? I kind of have a feeling that the term "Glass Ceiling" was misunderstood here. The phenomenon occurs more for women than anything else.

Maybe that's the official meaning, but it has adopted a new one in this day and age. Take a look at enterprise consulting firms. They are all women or minority owned. Heck if you are an Native American Indian you have the best odds of landing a government contract and or grants. A fews years back President Obama initiated a stimulus package one of those programs was the Broadband USA project. More times than not the company that received the grant was a women or minority owned company. It's called strategy and frankly it works quite nicely. No glass ceiling there, just lots of money and a unfair playing field.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

Yeah, the WGU tuition is practically pennies compared to the in-state tuition in NJ (or others). The cheapest NJ state school is like 20K+ for a year...compared to WGU's ~6k.

I've been working a longer time than you have though...even without a degree, I do have quantitative proof as I've written and consulted with management RFPs, and have done ROI cost analysis. I don't really need a MS to get into management (I don't think), but it does help. I also want to adjunct teach though...and that's partly why I've strayed away from the MBA. Working with academics will do that to you....lmao.

Hey man positive momentum generates more positive momentum. Getting stuck in a rut is an easy thing to do and hard to get out. Once you break free and start to gain traction only you can stop yourself.