Should I ask for a raise?

Monkerz

Our global company is working to consolidate into a new IT entity of its own within the company. This entity will support all 23 different divisions of our global company in the US, Canada and Mexico. So the IT/NOC's of these 23 divisions will be removed and this new entity will charge the divisions for the support they receive. This is supposed to happen before the end of next year.

That being said, our division has a skeleton crew and it seems to be getting thinner and thinner with the lack of information from management. My co-workers are seeking opportunities with other companies as to stay away from the unemployment line when that time comes.

There are currently two network engineers supporting 160 branch offices within our division, Myself and a Sr. Network Engineer that helped me get the promotion to my current role. I have been in my current role as Network Engineer I for 1 year as of Oct '11. With the cut off date getting closer and closer, our Sr. Network Engineer has put in his two weeks notice today.

I am wondering if I should request a pay increase when he leaves as my workload may or may not increase in the next 6 months that we are still a department. In the last year, I have pretty much taken all the load off the Sr. Network Engineer as he was going through family problems and I felt really bad for him, plus I needed the experience. So he hasn't really been doing anything at work other than sleeping, talking to his ex-wife, playing WoW, and shopping for horse riding stuff.

I kind of hinted around today to my boss that I would need help for the remainder of the time we are still a department, but he said they had no plans to back fill the position. I also asked if I would be promoted to Sr. Engineer and take the departing co-worker's title, to which he replied, "Probably not".

I'm beginning to think maybe I need to start looking for work elsewhere if they are not planning to give me a raise or hire some help.

Anyone been in this situation before? What do you think?

genderdude

Monkerz wrote: »

Our global company is working to consolidate into a new IT entity of its own within the company. This entity will support all 23 different divisions of our global company in the US, Canada and Mexico. So the IT/NOC's of these 23 divisions will be removed and this new entity will charge the divisions for the support they receive. This is supposed to happen before the end of next year.

That being said, our division has a skeleton crew and it seems to be getting thinner and thinner with the lack of information from management. My co-workers are seeking opportunities with other companies as to stay away from the unemployment line when that time comes.

There are currently two network engineers supporting 160 branch offices within our division, Myself and a Sr. Network Engineer that helped me get the promotion to my current role. I have been in my current role as Network Engineer I for 1 year as of Oct '11. With the cut off date getting closer and closer, our Sr. Network Engineer has put in his two weeks notice today.

I am wondering if I should request a pay increase when he leaves as my workload may or may not increase in the next 6 months that we are still a department. In the last year, I have pretty much taken all the load off the Sr. Network Engineer as he was going through family problems and I felt really bad for him, plus I needed the experience. So he hasn't really been doing anything at work other than sleeping, talking to his ex-wife, playing WoW, and shopping for horse riding stuff.

I kind of hinted around today to my boss that I would need help for the remainder of the time we are still a department, but he said they had no plans to back fill the position. I also asked if I would be promoted to Sr. Engineer and take the departing co-worker's title, to which he replied, "Probably not".

I'm beginning to think maybe I need to start looking for work elsewhere if they are not planning to give me a raise or hire some help.

Anyone been in this situation before? What do you think?

how much u make now?

and what experience and quals u have.

Monkerz

My salary is at the bottom threshold for Network Engineers in the Memphis Metro area.

I have one year of OTJ network experience. Certs are to the left of this post. Should have CCNP by Feb.

I am still green in the network field, but I am trying my best to learn all that I can.

genderdude

Monkerz wrote: »

My salary is at the bottom threshold for Network Engineers in the Memphis Metro area.

I have one year of OTJ network experience. Certs are to the left of this post. Should have CCNP by Feb.

I am still green in the network field, but I am trying my best to learn all that I can.

wont hurt to ask

pham0329

With people leaving left and right, I'm not sure now would be the best time to ask for a raise. IMO, if they're letting people go, not filling the position, and not promoting within, that kind of raises some alarm bell. Maybe you should also start looking for a new job?

cisco_trooper

I have a personal policy of never asking for raises. I'm not interested in working at a place to doesn't have enough respect for its people to keep up with fair market value for a hard earned skillset. There are other places out there hiring for my skillset and if they are willing to pay me $10K more than I make now, guess where I'm going. The concept of loyalty within companies went away quite some time ago. They wouldn't hesitate to fire me if they needed to. Likewise, I won't hesitate to fire them if I need to. Along the same lines, once I present a company with two weeks notice they no longer have any opportunity to retain me. A counter-offer with a big raise is no longer on the table at that point. If I give notice I am done no matter what.

Anyway, enough with my little rant. I would recommend looking for a job over asking for a raise any day of the week. Let us know how it turns out for you.

buzzkill

If I was in your situation I would, at the very least, be looking into other positions. My loyalty would certainly not lie with such a company.

effekted

cisco_trooper wrote: »

The concept of loyalty within companies went away quite some time ago. They wouldn't hesitate to fire me if they needed to. Likewise, I won't hesitate to fire them if I need to. Along the same lines, once I present a company with two weeks notice they no longer have any opportunity to retain me. A counter-offer with a big raise is no longer on the table at that point. If I give notice I am done no matter what.

I have the same outlook and what I tell my colleagues and manager (who is also underpaid, overworked, and under appreciated), if we were going to be laid off the company wouldn't be as nice to tell us 2 weeks in advance so if I won't be able to give adequate notice when accepting another job I am not going to worry about it.

I also will not accept a counter offer as I feel that just puts a bullseye on my back for when they blow the budget and need to lay people off. Found out a few layoffs ago that once you go over a certain salary range they generally look at you first regardless of how important or well you do your job.

apr911

cisco_trooper wrote: »

I have a personal policy of never asking for raises. I'm not interested in working at a place to doesn't have enough respect for its people to keep up with fair market value for a hard earned skillset. There are other places out there hiring for my skillset and if they are willing to pay me $10K more than I make now, guess where I'm going. The concept of loyalty within companies went away quite some time ago. They wouldn't hesitate to fire me if they needed to. Likewise, I won't hesitate to fire them if I need to. Along the same lines, once I present a company with two weeks notice they no longer have any opportunity to retain me. A counter-offer with a big raise is no longer on the table at that point. If I give notice I am done no matter what.

Anyway, enough with my little rant. I would recommend looking for a job over asking for a raise any day of the week. Let us know how it turns out for you.

I agree that once you submit your 2 weeks notice or even hint that such a notice may be coming that you shouldnt accept a counter-offer. The counter-offer concept has been discussed at length in another post but the general gist of it is, if a company knows you want to leave, you are guaranteeing you'll be one of the first to go when the time comes. They'll try to retain you for as long as they can by offering you a counter offer but they are already planning for your departure, whether it is your choice or theirs. They will wait till the project is done or they hire and train your replacement but you have already expressed intent to leave which pretty much makes you a lame duck and first on the chopping block.

However, I disagree with company loyalty being dead and never asking for a raise.

Lets start with company loyalty. Dont get me wrong when I say company loyalty isnt dead, I dont mean its alive and well, for the most part it is dead. It used to be you could get a job at a company and be there for all or most of your career and that just doesnt happen anymore. If they need to fire you they wont hesitate to do so just as if you need to leave or receive a better offer elsewhere you wont hesitate to do so but a lot of that has less to do with a devaluing of the employer-employee relationship and loyalty and more to do with the increased valuation of loyalty to self both for the company and the employee.

Its very much a chicken-and-egg proposition of which came first:
Employees seeking significantly greater pay, wider experience and/or better job growth or
Employers seeking to cut payroll, benefits and training budgets to save money

Somewhere along the line these actions shifted the loyalty from inter-entity loyalty to loyalty to self. This is very much cyclical with the condition of the economy...

In boom times, employee loyalty to the company decreases as they leave to seek greener pastures elsewhere, meanwhile, a company's loyalty to the employee generally increases as the give promotions, raises, bonuses and training opportunities
In down times, employee loyalty to the company increases as they seek to keep their job and salary with as minimal loss as possible, meanwhile company's loyalty to the employee decreases as the seek to trim budgets and increase profits through job cutbacks, salary cuts, etc.

Iit needs to go both ways, if you job hop from job-to-job always seeking greater pay, benefits or whatever, how can you expect any loyalty from the company? Just as a company cannot expect loyalty from you if they continually decrease benefits, pay or generally make the workplace unworkable.

In the end though, the loyalty does still exist but its changed from being a loyalty focused on tenure/retainment and is now more focused on improving the employee's day-to-day experience. Its why we are seeing such a push (especially in IT) towards culture, fun/relaxed work environments, increased timeoff and general scheduling flexibility and on-site (and often free) amenities (ala Google, Rackspace, Microsoft, Cisco, etc.)

I do know a good number of people who have been at 1 company for 10 years or more and I know a few people who have been at company for 20 years or more. Those numbers drastically shrink when applied only to IT workers, especially the 20+ years but I still know a good number of people who've been at 1 company for 10 years or more in IT. Thats just people I know, so Im sure there are plenty of others out there.

As a last comment on loyalty, in IT at least, I think we the employees struck first. We sought greater paychecks, widened job experiences and more knowledge and for most of us that meant job hopping once every 3-5 years by choice, not by being let go. There are exceptions obviously but thats just what Ive seen and witnessed.

Anyway on to the last point about not asking for a raise.

I have 2 issues with this. First, regarding respect. I think respect goes back to and is often time built on a certain amount of loyalty. When I was running my business, I knew who was going to get the pay raise based on the loyalty and respect they showed towards me. Why am I going to give a pay raise to someone who constantly complains they arent paid enough or who has high probability of leaving the company soon? I would rather reward those who have shown commitment to the job than the ones who treat it as just another paycheck.

In regards to respecting one's skillset? It still comes down to personal respect. I would rather pay the lower ranked person who comes in everyday, ontime, is there when I need him because someone called out and is always respectful to me, co-workers and customers more money than the higher ranked, higher skill person who frequently calls out, is late, never willing to help when needed, or is belligerent to me, coworkers or customers.

Guy could be the smartest most skill guy in the world and I still wouldnt respect him as a person enough to give him more money. All things being equal? Yes the guy with more skills gets paid more but things are rarely equal.

The second issue I have with this idea of not asking for a raise, and I see this all the time, is people forget that a as an employee your goals and the company's goals are only joined so far but ultimately, there are some goals that are diametrically opposed. You are there to make money, the company is there to make money. You want to make more money, the company wants to make more money. To achieve your goal, the company needs to pay you more and make less, to achieve the company's goal the company needs to pay you less and make more.

Yes there are a lot of variables that leaves out, such the cost of employee turnover or the fact that a well paid workforce may in fact be more productive (although some studies have shown employee production plateaus at a certain point and increased pay will not increase production, in fact, it may decrease production) but ultimately by not asking or at least hinting that you have ambition/desire for a promotion or more pay, you are allowing the company to believe you are content and they dont need to pay you more.

Anyway, Im done with my rant...

Devilry

Considering what your company is going through I don't think I would ask for a raise, but maybe ask for his job title? It would look great on a resume.

networker050184

Doesn't sound like you are going to have a job for long, much less a raise. I'd just keep my head down and find something new at this point.

Good luck.

Hypntick

networker050184 wrote: »

Doesn't sound like you are going to have a job for long, much less a raise. I'd just keep my head down and find something new at this point.

Good luck.

Gonna second that one. Especially in the Memphis area, you need to be on the look out right now. This time of year it's going to be rough but there are places hiring. Shame that they won't give you the title at least.

Turgon

Monkerz wrote: »

Our global company is working to consolidate into a new IT entity of its own within the company. This entity will support all 23 different divisions of our global company in the US, Canada and Mexico. So the IT/NOC's of these 23 divisions will be removed and this new entity will charge the divisions for the support they receive. This is supposed to happen before the end of next year.

That being said, our division has a skeleton crew and it seems to be getting thinner and thinner with the lack of information from management. My co-workers are seeking opportunities with other companies as to stay away from the unemployment line when that time comes.

There are currently two network engineers supporting 160 branch offices within our division, Myself and a Sr. Network Engineer that helped me get the promotion to my current role. I have been in my current role as Network Engineer I for 1 year as of Oct '11. With the cut off date getting closer and closer, our Sr. Network Engineer has put in his two weeks notice today.

I am wondering if I should request a pay increase when he leaves as my workload may or may not increase in the next 6 months that we are still a department. In the last year, I have pretty much taken all the load off the Sr. Network Engineer as he was going through family problems and I felt really bad for him, plus I needed the experience. So he hasn't really been doing anything at work other than sleeping, talking to his ex-wife, playing WoW, and shopping for horse riding stuff.

I kind of hinted around today to my boss that I would need help for the remainder of the time we are still a department, but he said they had no plans to back fill the position. I also asked if I would be promoted to Sr. Engineer and take the departing co-worker's title, to which he replied, "Probably not".

I'm beginning to think maybe I need to start looking for work elsewhere if they are not planning to give me a raise or hire some help.

Anyone been in this situation before? What do you think?

From the sounds of things your whole operation is collapsing to a vanishing point. Filling in for the senior network engineer has given you something to talk about in your next interview. It's time to look for a new job.