Backup solutions for a small company

qwertyiop

I'm starting my new job next week (at a smallish comapny) and as of now they don't have any backups. At the moment all they have is a good size NAS in raid5 and I plan on putting in a real file server.

I was wondering what you guys though on how or what i should implement for a small company as far as backups.

Daniel333

qwertyiop wrote: »

I'm starting my new job next week (at a smallish comapny) and as of now they don't have any backups. At the moment all they have is a good size NAS in raid5 and I plan on putting in a real file server.

I was wondering what you guys though on how or what i should implement for a small company as far as backups.

Hard to say... Tape or disk? Off site? Are they hardware or virtual? Mix? What sorts of sevrers are they running? Linux? Windows? What versions?

Zenith BDRs were nice. They can virtualize a server while you rebuild the physical server. Otherwise a USB disk per server taking a complete image every night and a file level backup ever few hours in conjunction with shadow copies was normally enough for most companies.

qwertyiop

at the moment a few windows servers.

Has anyone here used any reputable remote backup solutions or companies that offer good prices and support?

vCole

qwertyiop wrote: »

at the moment a few windows servers.

Has anyone here used any reputable remote backup solutions or companies that offer good prices and support?

.

For remote backups you'll want to take in consideration your bandwidth + how much data. Most small companies I've worked for/with either have a) tape b) backup to external hard drive or NAS c) Sonicwall CDP.

All depends on what they want to spend and how long they want the data recoverable for. Even if you do backups to an external drive to get something to start while deciding is better than nothing.

cyberguypr

I am always intrigued by the mindset of small companies in regards to data backup and recovery. Did they task you with finding a solution or did you bring the concern to them?

qwertyiop

This is a concern of mine that I brought up during the interview, that and that they dont have a anykind of UPS/Surge Protector so if they get a power surge then they lost all their data.

rjs_essex

As others have said, it really depends on what you are backing up, including type and amount of data... Incidently, I am currently in the process of purchasing a DAS system as I don't believe my budget and infrastructure will support a decent NAS or SAN system...I will be implementing a D2D2T and putting in an HP D2600 Disk Enclosure and HP 1/8 G2 LTO 5 Tape Library across 6G SAS from a dedicated server running Symantec Backup Exec 2010... I'm backing up 13 physical servers currently hosting approx 2TB of data... The system I am putting in will initially allow 12TB to be backed up with the ability to expand to 24TB if needed... My problem with my exisiting solution is speed and capacity - I have an old server doing the D2D with a capacity of approx 4TB and an old AIT5 library...Speed is a major concern - My current full friday backup takes 95 Hours including verify! Anyone got any thoughts on that too?

vCole

qwertyiop wrote: »

This is a concern of mine that I brought up during the interview, that and that they dont have a anykind of UPS/Surge Protector so if they get a power surge then they lost all their data.

Ouch!

Slowhand

qwertyiop wrote: »

I'm starting my new job next week (at a smallish comapny) and as of now they don't have any backups. At the moment all they have is a good size NAS in raid5 and I plan on putting in a real file server.

I was wondering what you guys though on how or what i should implement for a small company as far as backups.

Start with getting some kind of backups going, even if it's simply using the built-in backup tools in Windows Server, and drop them on that NAS. Windows Server Backup is easy enough to configure if this company has Windows Server 2008 or 2008 R2, and NTBackup will work just fine if they're on Windows 2000 Server or Windows Server 2003. Heck, even scripting some batch-files to do mirroring with Robocopy and running them Task Scheduler is preferable to having nothing at all.

If you're worried about getting the more important data backed up off-site, you could always look into something like the Pro version of Dropbox as an easy, temporary solution. As for more scalable, long-term backup solutions, that's something you're going to have to research once you have a budget in place. I hope you can at least get things up and running for now.

demonfurbie

id backup everything from the nas to a fileserver then raid the file server to start while you look for a off site option

qwertyiop

vCole wrote: »

.

For remote backups you'll want to take in consideration your bandwidth + how much data. Most small companies I've worked for/with either have a) tape b) backup to external hard drive or NAS c) Sonicwall CDP.
All depends on what they want to spend and how long they want the data recoverable for. Even if you do backups to an external drive to get something to start while deciding is better than nothing.

I've officially been tasked with finding a backup/DR solution for us. At the moment they are running off a NAS in raid 5.

alxx

Is the NAS backed up and has a ups (as well as the server) ?

qwertyiop

alxx wrote: »

Is the NAS backed up and has a ups (as well as the server) ?

At the moment they don't have a UPS or backups, I brought that up to president during my interview, i basically explained to him if something happens to that like a bad power surge they could potentially loose all of their data and that got his attention. This being my first week at the job I've been officially tasked to look for better solutions for them.

ptilsen

Daniel333 wrote: »

Zenith BDRs were nice. They can virtualize a server while you rebuild the physical server.

I disagree strongly. Zenith BDRs are a nice concept, but in practice the server virtualization does not work reliably. A big part of this is and was, in fairness, due to ShadowProtect 3.5's VirtualBoot. Still, Zenith is a bad provider of a poorly implemented service. Do not trust Zenith with management of your data or your systems. We deployed about 15 of these to clients and they failed to virtualize servers during hardware failures twice. Zenith also doesn't do a great job of notifying if offsite and local data are out of sync. They do do a good job of notifying of backup failures - and anything else that could ever potentially be a problem (read: lots of false positives).

Anyway, sorry to rant about Zenith. Too many bad experiences to let that one go. I will say the BDR solution itself is a great concept, and a good execution when done through another provider. ShadowProtect is top notch when configured and managed properly. Going through eFolder, Datto, or an MSP reselling a ShadowProtect BDR service is a great decision. It's not a cheap one though -- BackupExec with tapes will always be cheaper. They aren't mutually exclusive, though -- BackupExec or even NT Backup/Windows Server Backup with tapes for a file-level backup for your raw data, then a local ShadowProtect for easy OS/bare metals recovery. In terms of cost and practicality, a dual solution like that can be great for an SMB. If money is extremely tight, tape-only or even USB hard drives can be effective. I will say that I'm not a fan of Windows Server Backup or NT Backup due to unreliability and lack of flexibility, but they can both work well enough if implemented properly.

Any solution will only be as effective if you manage it well and are diligent about testing. Testing for data recovery and for full bare metal OS recovery regularly (once a month is probably appropriate for the average SMB) is key. No system is fault-proof or fool-proof.

I will also advise that no matter how uninterested the business owner or manager may seem in backups, it is your obligation as an IT professional to push back hard and ensure proper backup, disaster recovery, business continuity, and retention policies are in place.

Edit: If you provide a detailed description of the server environment and data quantities, and possibly a rough budget, I would be happy to advise you on something very specific for your environment. A little background: I manage a team responsible for about 20 SMB clients of the small MSP that I work for. Implementing, architecting, and maintaining backup & DR solutions for SMBs is a huge part of my job.

Hypntick

qwertyiop wrote: »

I've officially been tasked with finding a backup/DR solution for us. At the moment they are running off a NAS in raid 5.

From my perspective, I work for an MSP who works primarily with SMBs, there are a few options out there for you depending on budget and bandwidth. Do you just need to get the data offsite or are you looking for a cloud based VM solution? To get the data offsite only, we've had success with Barracuda and Evault. As far as cloud based VM type backups I can only give a warning, stay the heck away from Datto. We're currently looking at Acronis for a possible replacement VM solution in our price range, i'll let you know how that goes as i'm going to set a device up this week to start a few tests.

undomiel

I don't know about their online backup but I definitely have not been impressed with Acronis Backup & Recovery. We only have it deployed at one client but have stopped using it because of the experience. The management console is nice and easy to work with as opposed to that beast from Symantec, but the backups keep on breaking for mysterious reasons and I can never convince it to ignore a failed backup and try again without manual intervention.

ptilsen

Hypntick wrote: »

As far as cloud based VM type backups I can only give a warning, stay the heck away from Datto.

Would you mind sharing your experience with Datto? We were looking at it as a possible alternative to eFolder, and it seems okay.

Hypntick

ptilsen wrote: »

Would you mind sharing your experience with Datto? We were looking at it as a possible alternative to eFolder, and it seems okay.

Absolutely, we use a variety of Datto devices for 30-40 clients. If you have someone dedicated to babysitting the devices then you'll be fine. I had a 1 hour call daily to try and stay on top of the issues they tend to have, that's what it took minimum to get them running successfully. Once those daily calls stopped, the problems started popping up again. Anything from various kernel errors on the devices themselves, agent crashes, license issues (for our older devices), and losing off-site synch to the Datto servers. These days i'm spending at least 1-2 hours daily keeping on top of the issues and opening tickets with them.

To be fair, their support is top notch, most of the guys i've dealt with really know their stuff and are pretty swift on resolving issues. It just seems that they fix the issue but not the underlying cause of the issue most of the time. I know they've switched up the software they use to ShadowSnap from SnaptoVM, which does seem to be working out better. The only issue is the headache in moving 30-40 clients from 1 version to another, which requires an upgrade of the device, a wipe of the previous data (better hope it makes it offsite), and then the inevitable tinkering to get all of the servers backing up correctly.

We decided to do a test on 1 device to see how the process flowed and estimated time to get it back up and running. It's been 3 weeks that they've been working on the device to try and get the 4 servers backed up successfully, 2 of which are actually working finally. On the other hand we had a new device, already set up shipped out to us for a new client install, it's worked out since day 1. There doesn't seem to be any consistency in the failures or success of their devices, and it is a serious ongoing process to keep things running smoothly. Perhaps we're expecting to much out of them.

From everything i've heard and read, dealing with other clients of theirs, this seems to be the norm rather than the exception. So unless you've got a good bit of man hours to devote to it, it may end up costing more in the long run and may fail you at a critical time (we've had a few close calls). Let me know if you have any other questions on it.

KenC

Off-site backup will need to be part of your plan at some point. It is important to get a handle on what exactly needs to be backed up, and how often to back up (e.g. data will need to be backed up more often than the system state etc).
I recently had a look at online backups for a small business, they were being charged quite a lot and it didn't make sense. It turned out that their previous IT guy that set it up didn't pay too much attention, and essentially each desktop had a mapped network drive to the main fileserver, the result of which was the same data being backed up 5 times each night, when once was enough.

ptilsen wrote: »

Edit: If you provide a detailed description of the server environment and data quantities, and possibly a rough budget, I would be happy to advise you on something very specific for your environment. A little background: I manage a team responsible for about 20 SMB clients of the small MSP that I work for. Implementing, architecting, and maintaining backup & DR solutions for SMBs is a huge part of my job.

Good to know, I might have some typical admin tasks that I'd appreciate your input on, as it is always good to know as a "one-man show" that I am following best practice and standards.

Plantwiz

All good points.

Consider how much time/budget this company is willing to invest on you building a backup solution. Likewise, have them decide how long they can be without their network and if it is a problem for their business if they lost all their data.

It maybe that they can afford to be down a few days (I know, it seems absurd to think about being in IT without a network, but there are businesses that can function without a network and only use it for ease of communication or e-mail...but a paper system could easily cover for them in a pinch).

It may also be that their network really doesn't handle data that is mission critical, and again, if it all vanished, they'd be 'ok'.

However, while you are investigating rolling out a backup system. You may also wish to suggest they consider how long their data needs to be archived (and this varies based on the business), if e-mails need to be archived, and how their client data is protected. If they are using a CRM type app that is a service, they may have little to worry about inhouse data failing. It depends on many things...but be aware you may need to do some research and ask questions for them to help figure out what they want so you are able to present solutions.

Cool gig you have! Best wishes!