starting to wish I hadn't looked in this section

bugzy3188

It would seem as though this is where the dream ends. I had a plan drawn up for my IT career that I had thought was reasonable but its looking less so with every post that I read. Is it really that hard to break in to the IT field? My plan was/is....i think... to start off by getting some low level certs, specifically the MCTS in windows 7, and XP along with an A+ certification. I am unable to attend school, at least for the next 9 months due to a defaulted loan. I had hope that these certs would be enough to score me a help desk job, which I naively assumed required A LOT less qualifications...some require a bachelors??? really??? then I had planned on working that job for a few years while I actually attended school for a degree in networking. My lifelong goal would be to become an IT manager or director...or who knows...maybe a CIO I dont plan on giving up, IT is my passion and the ONLY thing that I can see myself doing in the future. I guess Im posting in hopes to get some reassurance if possible, has anyone out there gotten in to the IT field without an actual degree? I know its not going to be easy (especially being from minnesota apparently) but is it even a reasonable notion?

undomiel

There are plenty of people out there that have gotten into IT without a degree and are successful without a degree. Don't get hung-up on the wishlist of qualifications that you see on the jobs, especially for entry level jobs. Go ahead and apply anyways and get your experience wherever you can. I'd also recommend checking out this method of job hunting though it definitely requires a lot more work than just filling out applications: Ask The Headhunter®

It is not all doom and gloom out there.

networker050184

Its definitely possible, plenty people have done it. How easy it will be depends on a lot of factors. Do you have a good resume? Thats the first thing thats going to generate interest. How are your people skills? Next comes actually getting on the phone and selling yourself. Are you good at interviewing? You have to go in and prove yourself to them that you are the right fit for the job.

Location is also a big factor as you pointed out. The whole supply and demand thing.

Good luck!

Ryan82

Keep your head up and keep on studying and learning everything you can. Something will come along and your hard work will pay off. I'm not too familiar with the IT job market in Minnesota but you may have to relocate to find the job you are looking for. Best of luck!

hackman2007

There are millions of people in the world. What you are seeing here is a very, very small sampling of complaints and people having difficulty entering the IT industry.


Try not to let the complaints get to you. No matter which inudstry you are in there will be people complaining about it. As with everything, it just takes time, execution and planning. You seem to have the planning part down, so now is just the execution part!

dave330i

Might look into landing a position at a small co./start up. You get thrown into the deep end, but you learn a lot of stuff. That's how I learned about Win2k8 AD, VMware, SQL 2k8, SharePoint, etc in a year.

ptilsen

My advice: Ignore the qualifications. That's contrary to what I've read online, but it has worked for me consistently. I started my career at a helpdesk job with an A+ while I was still in high school. I applied to that job despite the requirements for a degree and experience, got an interview, and was offered the position immediately. Part of the interview process did involve "proving" my technical skill to a degree, but really, it's just about putting together a good resume, interviewing well, and convincing the interview (through your resume and interview or their own testing process) that you have the skill you say you have.

IT jobs are almost always about your technical and soft skills, not about your qualifications. Yes, there are many misguided hiring managers out there looking to employ 4-year grads for their helpdesk jobs. Those are the type of jobs that either have horribly high turnover -- you get out ASAP, or horribly low turnover -- you hire the unambitious to take your phone calls and they stay forever.

Flash forward two years and change from my helpdesk. I've completed high school and am half-way through an AAS from a local IT degree mill, and I get hired for a Sysadmin-one-man-army job at a 12-site subsidiary of a huge enterprise with nearly 100 computers. How? Well, I had my entry-level certs out of the way and my mid-level certs started (had A+, Network+, MCSA). But more importantly, I expressed confidence in my abilities in my phone interview, in-person interview, and had a good resume that concisely and effectively enumerated my skills and experience. I interviewed with multiple technical professionals, HR, and the CFO of the subsidiary. Nobody -- not one asked about my degree in progress, or my current or high school GPA. The techies saw my certs and asked about my strong points technically, and the non-techies just wanted to make sure they didn't dislike me (this is the reality of most non-technical interviews).

Flash forward another few years, and I interview with an IT consulting company. Now I have the same certs, some great experience under my belt, and my two-year degree. I get hired immediately after being interviewed by the CEO, who is himself an IT professional with 15 years of experience.

My point with all of this is, I started with no degree, not even a diploma, and just an A+. Six or so years later, I'm a high-level IT consultant and manage a team of low and mid-level IT consultants. I did this by constantly studying and improving my technical and soft skills, by having a great resume, and by interviewing well. I did not do this with my fake college degree and certainly not with my non-existent Bachelors degree. I have hit a stopping point due to my quick progression and lack of a Bachelors, and I am planning to enroll next year to get my 4-year degree.

Hundreds of words later, the point is, you don't need a Bachelors degree to get an IT job or even to excel in your IT career. You need determination, hard work ethic, and a passion for this stuff. If you have that, then don't listen to anyone who tells you you need a 4-year degree.

CiscoKidd

Yeah...whatever everybody else said. Most of the bosses that I've had in my IT career didn't even have a degree.

tpatt100

I would focus on certs that reflect your experience level such as CompTIA and Microsoft desktop support. Work on people skills and boosting your confidence, if you give off vibes that you are a person I would like working alongside 40+ hours a week I would give you extra notice. I remember interviews I sat in on and some guys gave off such an elitist attitude I could care less how uber their Cisco or Microsoft skills were.

cyberguypr

As many said, ignore the qualifications. Every single position I've held required a BS which I didn't have (about to complete it in a few months). In many places there is a big disconnect between HR and the other departments. Sometimes job postings are rushed and literally copy pasted without really reflecting the actual requirements. If you see something that catches your eye go ahead an apply. Worst that can happen is that you don't hear back from them.

it_consultant

Employers are looking for you to fit 75% of the requirements. I have seen so many mid level sys admin jobs that wanted a CS degree holder, CCNP, experience in Exchange, and database development. If that person existed, those companies could not afford them anyway. Look at the tasks you are expected to accomplish and apply based on that criteria.

ptilsen

it_consultant wrote: »

Employers are looking for you to fit 75% of the requirements. I have seen so many mid level sys admin jobs that wanted a CS degree holder, CCNP, experience in Exchange, and database development. If that person existed, those companies could not afford them anyway. Look at the tasks you are expected to accomplish and apply based on that criteria.

Yes, don't get me started on the job postings that want 10 years of experience in three divergent, hyper-specific vendor technologies, a BS or MS, and 8 different certs. The only truly discouraging part of looking for IT jobs is how bad some companies are at posting them and having reasonable expectations.

drew726

If IT the only thing you can see yourself doing than don't let any of us persuade you otherwise.

Brain_Power

ptilsen wrote: »

I've completed high school and am half-way through an AAS from a local IT degree mill

I did not do this with my fake college degree and certainly not with my non-existent Bachelors degree.

Degree mill? Fake college degree?

Turgon

tpatt100 wrote: »

I would focus on certs that reflect your experience level such as CompTIA and Microsoft desktop support. Work on people skills and boosting your confidence, if you give off vibes that you are a person I would like working alongside 40+ hours a week I would give you extra notice. I remember interviews I sat in on and some guys gave off such an elitist attitude I could care less how uber their Cisco or Microsoft skills were.

Actually very important that. Years back I was hired over someone who apparently in interview said they had done everything, what hadn't they done? The reason? I was told that I was honest about what I had worked with, demonstrated an interest in learning more on my own time but most importantly..I answered the question the hirer was privately asking of themselves which is 'do I want to be working with the person for a couple of years?'...in my case it was yes, in the case of the other guy it was a resounding no.

Sell your capabilities by all means in an interview but nobody wants to work with a smart ass.

jamesp1983

dave330i wrote: »

Might look into landing a position at a small co./start up. You get thrown into the deep end, but you learn a lot of stuff. That's how I learned about Win2k8 AD, VMware, SQL 2k8, SharePoint, etc in a year.

This is a great way to start. I did the exact same thing. I was IT for a 150 employee company that did clinical trial data storage. I learned so much about networking, servers, storage, virtualization, telephony, IT as a whole, and overall troubleshooting at that job.

To the OP, keep your head up man and push hard. I paid my way through college and cert training as a pizza delivery boy. I had an Associates degree, an A+, and Net+ when I got my first IT job. It paid $14/hr, but I've had friends (and some of my students) start at $80k right after going through MCSA training (and getting the cert). I have travelled all over the country and worked/studied an insane amount of hours to get the skills required to advance my career, but it has been worth it. Fast forward 7 years and I make close to 100k/yr and I am doing exactly what I wanted to do with my life.

ptilsen

Brain_Power wrote: »

Degree mill? Fake college degree?

This is how I affectionately refer to my degree from ITT Technical Institute.

nel

Turgon wrote: »

Actually very important that. Years back I was hired over someone who apparently in interview said they had done everything, what hadn't they done? The reason? I was told that I was honest about what I had worked with, demonstrated an interest in learning more on my own time but most importantly..I answered the question the hirer was privately asking of themselves which is 'do I want to be working with the person for a couple of years?'...in my case it was yes, in the case of the other guy it was a resounding no.

Sell your capabilities by all means in an interview but nobody wants to work with a smart ass.

Very Well put by both posters there. There is nothing worse than working with someone who is a pain in the arse.

To the original question, you definitely do not have to have a degree to break into the field. Keep plugging away and you will be fine. This is something i had done, although later i decided to complete my under and post grad degree's (the latter still pending on me pulling my finger out and completing my dissertation!).

SouthSeaPirate

Please read my thread. Then you will see it is very possible.

I think your on the right track. I also agree with the others, ignore qualifications. Do you really see someone who has 10+ years experince and a Masters wasting their time applying for a position called Desktop Support. A lot of times, HR depts are using predefined templates when posting for open positions. They themselves have no clue whats required of the position. Look at the job duties: Can you do them? Can you learn them?

Hypntick

I started with no degree and no certs. As has been previously said, demonstrate a genuine desire to learn and grow with the career, you'll do well. One of our newer guys just said today "I don't see myself staying in IT much more than a year, I just don't have a passion for it." He had better hope the president, who sits in an office about 20 feet away... doesn't hear that kind of talk.

No need to get discouraged, apply for what you want, just be sure to be honest.

erpadmin

People need to understand the difference between an IT job and an IT career.

What is so different about a career in IT than a career in law, or medicine? (rhetorical question!!)

My point is that in every profession, there is a career plan. You have to start somewhere.

If IT is something you are passionate about and you have no experience, you are not going to care that you have to make $8 an hour at Geek Squad/Staples/whatever for a year or two. Then you might get into a corporate gig. There are many roads to an IT career, but the ones who are truly successful are those who are mapping out a career and not caring that they have to make less money in the beginning. IT was never supposed to be a route to easy riches, but people still have it in their heads that because they have X and Y, they should be making beaucoup bucks.

I can tell you guys this much....in the beginning of my IT career, I never thought it would end up like one. I saw it as a job. After several years, jobs became professions and professions led to a career. Once that happened, I was able to map out clearly my own destiny. But never once did I buy into the lies that getting an MCSE or whatever cert du jour would make me $150k a year (back in the NT 4 days.)

If you have passion in your eyes for technology, it doesn't matter what qualifications you have, you will most likely get hired than not. That's a guarantee. If you are just trying to land that job that you feel entitled to because you passed the A+ exams, you will probably be disappointed.

Excellent1

Plenty of good advice in this thread. One thing I will echo, and that is that regardless of innate talent or external qualifications (degrees, certifications, etc.), nothing takes the place of effort. If you put forth the effort, you will be successful. Yes, there are things that can help, but nothing can stop someone that is willing to do what it takes to succeed. Coolidge said it best:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing
is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded
genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated
derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

Armymanis

dont get discouraged. I applied to 100+ positions before I got my first big break. Now I am working at the help desk and have been with the same company for 6 months doing two different positions. Started out at Desktop Technician 1 and moved onto help desk tier 1. I will do anything to keep a job in IT while I am going to school. education + certification + experience is the key to success, like me and many others you just have to have the drive in order to do well. I will even work holidays which are meant for family time, because I believe my career is way more important and i can spend time with my family on non-holiday days.

Devilry

You have to take everything you read on this forum, or the internet as a whole, with a grain of salt.

Many people posting about no luck finding a job might have background check issues, or terrible interview skills or were not a good fit for a position and they naturally just forget to mention those facts, or do not realize and accept them.

I once wondered if this was true also, I drew up a BS resume with some basic basic certs, put a google voice number on it and posted it around for an hour, got 16 call backs the first 72 hours. I even put no related work experience, just customer service background in retail.

Don't lose hope, don't let other peoples opinions on markets judge yours. You see how many people on here say they cant get in, but notice how many of them also report high level salaries with not much experience.

You can do it! Make a goal, and achieve it.

NetworkingStudent

bugzy3188 wrote: »

It would seem as though this is where the dream ends. I had a plan drawn up for my IT career that I had thought was reasonable but its looking less so with every post that I read. Is it really that hard to break in to the IT field? My plan was/is....i think... to start off by getting some low level certs, specifically the MCTS in windows 7, and XP along with an A+ certification. I am unable to attend school, at least for the next 9 months due to a defaulted loan. I had hope that these certs would be enough to score me a help desk job, which I naively assumed required A LOT less qualifications...some require a bachelors??? really??? then I had planned on working that job for a few years while I actually attended school for a degree in networking. My lifelong goal would be to become an IT manager or director...or who knows...maybe a CIO I dont plan on giving up, IT is my passion and the ONLY thing that I can see myself doing in the future. I guess Im posting in hopes to get some reassurance if possible, has anyone out there gotten in to the IT field without an actual degree? I know its not going to be easy (especially being from minnesota apparently) but is it even a reasonable notion?

Follow your dreams and never give up. The economy is tough right now, but things will get better.
My advice
Pay your loans and work with your creditors.

Get your two year degree while working in IT( there are part time and full time entry level jobs out there).

Apply.apply..apply….

Find out what everyone else is doing and doing something different to make yourself stand out as a top candidate.

Try to get an internship while you’re still in college.


Read this-->
Computer Careers And Jobs How To Start Your IT Career


Whatever you do don't give up!! Good luck!

Slowhand

ptilsen hit the nail right on the head. The requirements you see for a lot of IT jobs is more like a wish-list, rather than a realistic set of expectations. Every single job I've held up to this point - help desk, NOC engineer, systems administrator, network/systems engineer - has listed a Bachelor's degree as an absolute minimum requirement in the job-description. . . I'm going to be receiving an Associate's degree this upcoming spring. Basically, if the job description looks like something you can handle, apply. Don't worry too much about the level of education, and to some extent, about the number of years experience they ask for. These are generally arbitrary 'nice-to-have' requirements that are intended to weed out the 18-year-old "computer-whiz" type of guys that think IT is just swapping out RAM and installing software. Speaking of which. . .

My roommate, who is about to turn 19 in December, has been working for a large company in San Francisco doing IT helpdesk type of work for six months now. He had zero experience and only the entry-level A+/Network+/Security+ cert-combination, but he kept applying for work and was finally given an interview. Once he did, he was able to go in and show them that he did, in fact, have some training under his belt and that he was willing to work hard and learn what he needed to learn in order to do the job. This past week, they put him in charge of procurement, which essentially means he's the guy you grovel to in his company if you want a new computer or printer. He's still in college and this is quite literally his first job; considering that he managed to snag roughly $40,000 per year in salary, it's a safe bet you can break into the industry as well. Just keep working on those certs and get that resume polished, then start putting yourself out there. Don't be deterred, you'll find your foot-in-the-door soon enough, and then it's only upwards from there if you're willing to work for it.

SouthSeaPirate

ptilsen wrote: »

My advice...

You sir nailed it! Great job BTW. +Rep

ptilsen wrote: »

Yes, don't get me started on the job postings that want 10 years of experience in three divergent, hyper-specific vendor technologies, a BS or MS, and 8 different certs. The only truly discouraging part of looking for IT jobs is how bad some companies are at posting them and having reasonable expectations.

And again! I cant stand all those postings that state your creds must be equivalent to an IT God; you must know everything (including that proprietary application that only we use), more years experience than you have been alive, you will be working on everything including C++, webmaster, Sys and net admin work... We are looking to fill a helpdesk position.