Ever Have An Employer Tell You....

the_Grinchthe_Grinch ■■■■■■■■■■Posts: 4,154Member ■■■■■■■■■■
That you basically weren't worth what they pay you? I recently gave my notice (not to sugarcoat things, but my future employer wants me to start Jan 3rd so I gave my notice the Monday after I heard I got the job thus giving my current employer 5 weeks notice, but if the future said two weeks, it would have been two weeks notice) and there was a pretty big blow up about me leaving. I have been unhappy in my position for over a year (Feb would be 2 years with this company) and I had told them I was unhappy. I was hired as a NOC person, did NOC things for about two weeks before they said your NOC/Helpdesk now, and did that for a couple of months until they moved me to helpdesk full time (no salary increase, plus I trained the two people who replaced me). At that time one of my bosses spoke with me while working late and explained that they saw the hard work I was putting in and I would be rewarded at raise time. Raise time came and on top of adding an hour and 20 minute commute time I was given an 8% raise. Now 8% isn't bad (I'll admit that), but in dollars and cents (on top of getting no increase to go from NOC to Helpdesk) it truly amounted to gas money.

At my review I let them know I wasn't happy with the raise and that I was planning on looking elsewhere. At that time they asked if another increase would get me to stay another 6 months, to allow them time to find someone. I said yes and I received another 8%. Now I held my end of that bargain and stayed way past the 6 months I had promised (would actually be a whole year just about from second raise to last day with the company). I switched to nights (a problem area for us) and had nothing, but glowing reviews about how customers were happier with me on nights, engineers were happier with me on nights, and that management was happier with me on nights. Now we had a state of the union meeting about two weeks ago and per the usual when asked no one brought up any of the difficulties they had with the lack of staffing, upward mobility, or approachability of management (not unusual in my experience). It was a two hour meeting with lots information being thrown at us. That night I took about two hours to pen an email to one of my direct bosses (head of operations) to give my opinion of what was said at the meeting.

Mind you I sent this to him only for a number of reasons. First, management is very quick to tell you that you are wrong. They've run the company for over a decade and have always had growth. Now yes, this does mean they know what their talking about. But in the span of a year the company has grown from 25/30 employees to just about 60 employees (mostly sales people). Second, some of my ideas are crap or the company is actively discussing (I wouldn't have knowledge of) so I'd rather not rehash ideas that are in the mix. Finally, the head of operations is an approachable person who would at the very least say he will think about your idea, not dismiss it off the bat (even if he's pretty much knows it probably won't fly). I won't rehash everything said in the email, but it was well thought out and mainly filled with observations I've had for the past 2 years (I even said I enjoy working for the company, the people, and really wanted to see it succeed).

When I gave my notice I got a fairly nasty letter slamming me for my email (interesting because management said they were approachable?) and then stating it didn't make financial sense to pay me what I received, but at the end asking what it would take to make me stay (confusing at best?). Has anyone had this before? I was taken off guard as prior to this all I heard was glowing reviews of my performance and the good changes I had brought to the company. The email was cc'd to the owner (and some other partners) which got no response/input from them (which leads me to assume that everyone felt this way). I guess ultimately it doesn't matter as I am leaving regardless, but it felt almost caddy the response that I got. I am the first person to quit the company (others were laidoff or fired) and probably the first to voice an opinion on the state of things for the engineers. Live and learn I suppose....
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Comments

  • rwmidlrwmidl CISSP, CISM, MCSE, MCSA, MCPxAlot Worldwide AvailabilityPosts: 807Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    A few things:

    1. You said you were disappointed you didn't get a raise when they switched you from working in the NOC to helpdesk. Most places, helpdesk is considered entry level. So if working in the NOC was not considered an entry level position and helpdesk is/was, why would they give you a raise (unless you were a supervisor/manager)?

    2. You said you were disappointed in the raise and let them know that. This is just me, but in this economy be thankful you got a raise. Quite a few people don't have jobs or those that do haven't gotten any raises. Plus during your review voicing displeasure over a raise to your boss could come across really bad, especially when you said "I wasn't happy with the raise and was planning on looking elsewhere". Your quite lucky your boss just didn't show you the door right then. Note: I'm just going by what you said in the post.

    3. Unless there is a culture of not speaking up at an all-hands meeting, why didn't you voice some concerns at that time vs sending an email later? Unless you were being very critical of the company/owners, all-hands meetings are usually designed for Q and A.

    Overall, and this is just how I'm reading your post, you seemed a little catty to your boss(s) and ungrateful about working there. While sometimes jobs don't work out the way you thought they would/how they were advertised, at the same time especially with how the job market is, sometimes you need to be grateful to be employed. I think that is where the email from the boss might have come from. To your employer, they moved you from NOC to helpdesk (why did they move you? Were you not performing while working in the NOC? Did they realize they had too many people there and needed some people with sharp skills to shore up the helpdesk?) and then when they gave you a raise (which you complained about), they gave you more money. So (to me at least) they went out of their way to make you happy and that wasn't good enough for you.

    Sorry if this came across harsh, it's just how I'm reading the post.
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  • ZartanasaurusZartanasaurus Posts: 2,008Member
    Dear so and so,

    To show you how much I care about this company, I won't allow you to overpay for my services anymore. I will be happier elsewhere. Also, no Christmas for you.

    Love,

    The Grinch
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  • Version4Version4 ■■□□□□□□□□ Posts: 58Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    To answer your initial question, yes, I have heard some harsh things said at the time a notice is given.

    Consider it from the employer perspective though, what if they had plans for you to work on a project? You've just put a wrench in that plan. Now management has to explain to upper management / executive / proprietor that they need more time to plan for project X. That puts pressure on your manager because now that manager has to explain to upper management / executive / proprietor why project X will not meet the deadline. This pressure could cause a few harsh things to be said that aren’t necessarily meant. This is just one example and I am not saying this is how things are playing out for you.

    In any case, what you are doing is over analyzing the situation. It sounds like you want affirmation from your employer for your skill and experience. Why? You won’t get it. You are moving on. Like rwmidl said, be positive about your job situation.

    Congratulations on your new position and good luck!
  • the_Grinchthe_Grinch ■■■■■■■■■■ Posts: 4,154Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    Definitely don't feel you are coming off as harsh, as I can agree that you have only my post to go by. At my company NOC is considered the "entry" level position. We do hire people directly to the helpdesk, but under normal circumstances they start at the NOC (answer phone calls, make tickets, respond to alerts). This was part of the reason at my disappointment in the raise, it was a step up, and technically one step from becoming a field/senior engineer. You are probably correct in regards to it being catty (thanks for the spelling fix ;), but part of me thought that if you don't voice your concerns then no one knows you are unhappy? As for voicing concerns at the meeting, you are probably correct in that I should have said something there. By the end there was only one question and that was after about 7 minutes of silence. Overall, you are probably spot on and it is definitely something that I can take with me to the next position.
    rwmidl wrote: »
    A few things:

    1. You said you were disappointed you didn't get a raise when they switched you from working in the NOC to helpdesk. Most places, helpdesk is considered entry level. So if working in the NOC was not considered an entry level position and helpdesk is/was, why would they give you a raise (unless you were a supervisor/manager)?

    2. You said you were disappointed in the raise and let them know that. This is just me, but in this economy be thankful you got a raise. Quite a few people don't have jobs or those that do haven't gotten any raises. Plus during your review voicing displeasure over a raise to your boss could come across really bad, especially when you said "I wasn't happy with the raise and was planning on looking elsewhere". Your quite lucky your boss just didn't show you the door right then. Note: I'm just going by what you said in the post.

    3. Unless there is a culture of not speaking up at an all-hands meeting, why didn't you voice some concerns at that time vs sending an email later? Unless you were being very critical of the company/owners, all-hands meetings are usually designed for Q and A.

    Overall, and this is just how I'm reading your post, you seemed a little catty to your boss(s) and ungrateful about working there. While sometimes jobs don't work out the way you thought they would/how they were advertised, at the same time especially with how the job market is, sometimes you need to be grateful to be employed. I think that is where the email from the boss might have come from. To your employer, they moved you from NOC to helpdesk (why did they move you? Were you not performing while working in the NOC? Did they realize they had too many people there and needed some people with sharp skills to shore up the helpdesk?) and then when they gave you a raise (which you complained about), they gave you more money. So (to me at least) they went out of their way to make you happy and that wasn't good enough for you.

    Sorry if this came across harsh, it's just how I'm reading the post.
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  • rwmidlrwmidl CISSP, CISM, MCSE, MCSA, MCPxAlot Worldwide AvailabilityPosts: 807Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    Thanks for taking the post in a positive light. One thing I will add, I've been in companies where managers have all-hands meetings, and most of the time they were for the manager to hear themselves talk (and the staff wants to eat their pizza that was provided and go about their day). All-hands meetings can be tough to bring up any issues, because both you and the manager/boss are then put in the spot light - you can come across as confrontational and the manager comes off as out of the loop/know if they don't have the answer.
    the_Grinch wrote: »
    Definitely don't feel you are coming off as harsh, as I can agree that you have only my post to go by. At my company NOC is considered the "entry" level position. We do hire people directly to the helpdesk, but under normal circumstances they start at the NOC (answer phone calls, make tickets, respond to alerts). This was part of the reason at my disappointment in the raise, it was a step up, and technically one step from becoming a field/senior engineer. You are probably correct in regards to it being catty (thanks for the spelling fix ;), but part of me thought that if you don't voice your concerns then no one knows you are unhappy? As for voicing concerns at the meeting, you are probably correct in that I should have said something there. By the end there was only one question and that was after about 7 minutes of silence. Overall, you are probably spot on and it is definitely something that I can take with me to the next position.
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  • EveryoneEveryone Posts: 1,661Member
    Can't say I've ever had anything even remotely similar happen. I've had a going away party thrown for me every time I've left anywhere, and been given gifts.
  • the_Grinchthe_Grinch ■■■■■■■■■■ Posts: 4,154Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    Everyone wrote: »
    Can't say I've ever had anything even remotely similar happen. I've had a going away party thrown for me every time I've left anywhere, and been given gifts.

    Somehow I don't doubt this at all! Sadly, no gifts or parties in store for this guy, but ultimately I am ok with that. Live, learn, and do better at the next place ha!
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  • ptilsenptilsen ■■■■■■■■■■ Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I don't know that your expectations or handling was unreasonable.

    Not knowing how you or your company defining NOC or helpdesk work or the skill level required for it, I won't judge how that should be compensated. But, if we're talking great performance, certification obtainment, and skill improvement over the course of two years, I don't necessarily think 8% is unreasonable to ask. I also think comments about the economy are utter bullshit. IT jobs are not hard to come by in most metropolitan areas, and I've not seen any evidence of average salaries decreasing anywhere near what they are in most other fields. My own salary has gone up by an average of 10% or 11% consistently for five years, and I don't feel I'm that exceptional.

    Saying your "NOC" role is entry-level pseudo-helpdesk work, and you start at $14/hour, an 8% raise brings you to $15/hour, and another one brings you to $16.33/hr. If you have a four-year degree, certifications, proven technical skills which you've improved, and then two years of experience, $14 to $16 is not a big jump. You are talking about DST, high-tier helpdesk, junior server admin, or level 1/2 field engineer positions. Those should all be in the $17-$20 range or salaried in the low-to-mid forties. These numbers are of course based on my experience and region, and YMMV, but the relativity is the same ($14 to $17-$20, or a 20-40% increase over two years).

    As far as meetings go and how you handle those, that varies between organizations. In some organizations, where meetings are more A than Q ("and most of the time they were for the manager to hear themselves talk" is very apt), you are better off simply giving no feedback. If the company is well managed and responsive to feedback, you should have no problems giving feedback during a meeting like that. That said, there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, with taking the time to think a response through. Better communication will result from taking the time to think something through and provide well formed feedback. We're pretty vague on the details, but I won't criticize your handling of this without knowing more.

    I will contradict myself a bit, and say I can see where the employer is coming from. It is hard for any employer in any field to justify year-over-year raises of 8% and stillconsider complaints about income, regardless of the economy. It is a sad truth that you must often move on, rather than move up, to get what you're worth in this industry. You are doing the right thing -- if your skills justify more than what they pay you and the opportunities for growth are as good or better, then moving to a different organization is not wrong. I'm just saying that that doesn't mean the employer is in the wrong, even if their response to you was a bit emotional.
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  • rwmidlrwmidl CISSP, CISM, MCSE, MCSA, MCPxAlot Worldwide AvailabilityPosts: 807Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    I can only say that in the almost 2 years I've been with my current employer, I've added about 6 certs (3 MCTS and 3 InfoSec) and I haven't gotten a raise, let alone a COLA. And while your experience my lead your opinions to believe that comments about the economy are utter BS I would say that in a majority of cases the economy does effect salaries, etc.

    As others have said before, the only way to really get an increase in salary is to move on to another employer (more often than not).
    ptilsen wrote: »
    I don't know that your expectations or handling was unreasonable.

    Not knowing how you or your company defining NOC or helpdesk work or the skill level required for it, I won't judge how that should be compensated. But, if we're talking great performance, certification obtainment, and skill improvement over the course of two years, I don't necessarily think 8% is unreasonable to ask. I also think comments about the economy are utter bullshit. IT jobs are not hard to come by in most metropolitan areas, and I've not seen any evidence of average salaries decreasing anywhere near what they are in most other fields. My own salary has gone up by an average of 10% or 11% consistently for five years, and I don't feel I'm that exceptional.

    Saying your "NOC" role is entry-level pseudo-helpdesk work, and you start at $14/hour, an 8% raise brings you to $15/hour, and another one brings you to $16.33/hr. If you have a four-year degree, certifications, proven technical skills which you've improved, and then two years of experience, $14 to $16 is not a big jump. You are talking about DST, high-tier helpdesk, junior server admin, or level 1/2 field engineer positions. Those should all be in the $17-$20 range or salaried in the low-to-mid forties. These numbers are of course based on my experience and region, and YMMV, but the relativity is the same ($14 to $17-$20, or a 20-40% increase over two years).

    As far as meetings go and how you handle those, that varies between organizations. In some organizations, where meetings are more A than Q ("and most of the time they were for the manager to hear themselves talk" is very apt), you are better off simply giving no feedback. If the company is well managed and responsive to feedback, you should have no problems giving feedback during a meeting like that. That said, there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, with taking the time to think a response through. Better communication will result from taking the time to think something through and provide well formed feedback. We're pretty vague on the details, but I won't criticize your handling of this without knowing more.

    I will contradict myself a bit, and say I can see where the employer is coming from. It is hard for any employer in any field to justify year-over-year raises of 8% and stillconsider complaints about income, regardless of the economy. It is a sad truth that you must often move on, rather than move up, to get what you're worth in this industry. You are doing the right thing -- if your skills justify more than what they pay you and the opportunities for growth are as good or better, then moving to a different organization is not wrong. I'm just saying that that doesn't mean the employer is in the wrong, even if their response to you was a bit emotional.
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  • ubermichubermich ■□□□□□□□□□ Posts: 20Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    ptilsen wrote: »
    I will contradict myself a bit, and say I can see where the employer is coming from. It is hard for any employer in any field to justify year-over-year raises of 8% and stillconsider complaints about income, regardless of the economy. It is a sad truth that you must often move on, rather than move up, to get what you're worth in this industry. You are doing the right thing -- if your skills justify more than what they pay you and the opportunities for growth are as good or better, then moving to a different organization is not wrong. I'm just saying that that doesn't mean the employer is in the wrong, even if their response to you was a bit emotional.

    Welcome to Economics 101. We'll start with supply and demand.

    My $0.02: If they gave you the raises you sought before and are offering you more money again, they are probably defensive about assuming they had done what they needed to keep you happy before. They are likely confused about why you are leaving after, in their view, they may have bent over backward to keep you and keep you happy. In my experience, telling a manager you are unhappy or e-mailing is not really saying you're unhappy enough to leave -- just that you want to whine about it (think about how many times per week they hear the same complaints). That being said, going back to Econ 101, if you have a supply of jobs and low demand that gives you the purchasing power. If you want to consider being the pain in the rear making "too much" money at your current employer vs. being the new guy making more money at your new employer that's your business -- not your former boss's business.

    Bottom line: Don't fret. You have more important things in life to spend your time/energy on.
  • the_Grinchthe_Grinch ■■■■■■■■■■ Posts: 4,154Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I will say that no where in my email did I ever bring up salary or compensation. My point was solely on the lack of anyone going from NOC to Helpdesk and Helpdesk to Field Engineering. It was in their response that they pointed out that they had given me a raise. Other then when I complained about the raise a year ago, I have never walked in (or emailed anyone) to say that I wanted or needed more money. The funny thing is, we are about two weeks from review time, and I had remarked to my family that I was not expecting a raise given I had moved to the night shift.

    Pay wise, they are probably middle of the road for the area. There are places paying less and there are places paying more. I didn't find the meeting to be lip service, per say, but I did sit thinking they are talking about all the growth we've had and the opportunities available. But if you looked in terms of what position the people had when I came on board, everyone is still in their same position. I found it quite telling in the fact that is speaking with my manager last night, he proceed to tell me about the various moves they had planned for different people within the company. Now, is it possible that these moves were in the work prior to me saying anything? Most definitely. But at the same time, we are a small firm and I talk to my coworkers inside and outside of work. I would assume if they had moves planned, they might have discussed it with those people. No one mentioned that they were moving or even that it was mentioned to them at all.

    Again, you guys are right I am over thinking it and at this point it is all moot. Unfortunately, I did expect some validation in my skills and this is probably what has caused me issues. I've had partners, managers, and field engineers tell me the difference I've made and then to hear otherwise was difficult to say the least. Either way, on to a new adventure and as always I thoroughly appreciate the advice/comments. Nice to have people with experience in the field to keep me on the straight and narrow!
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  • colemiccolemic ■■■■■■■□□□ Posts: 1,568Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    Everyone wrote: »
    Can't say I've ever had anything even remotely similar happen. I've had a going away party thrown for me every time I've left anywhere, and been given gifts.

    Because they were sad to see you go, or because they were glad to see you go? ;) I've been to a few wheels-up parties... you party when the wheels are up on the the plane they are flying out on!
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  • EveryoneEveryone Posts: 1,661Member
    colemic wrote: »
    Because they were sad to see you go, or because they were glad to see you go? ;) I've been to a few wheels-up parties... you party when the wheels are up on the the plane they are flying out on!

    LOL I would say both, but I'd seen other people leave without anything, so probably leaning more towards sad to see me go. :p I've had a manager call me into his office just before lunch during my last week, then tell me we were needed in a conference room after talking for a few minutes. Get to the conference room and there's pizza, cake, and like 30 people crammed into it.
  • ptilsenptilsen ■■■■■■■■■■ Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    rwmidl wrote: »
    I can only say that in the almost 2 years I've been with my current employer, I've added about 6 certs (3 MCTS and 3 InfoSec) and I haven't gotten a raise, let alone a COLA. And while your experience my lead your opinions to believe that comments about the economy are utter BS I would say that in a majority of cases the economy does effect salaries, etc.
    Obviously the economy has an impact, but my point is that IT jobs are not suffering. The economy in and of itself is not a reason to fail to increase an employee's compensation. There is still inflation; the field is still growing; and an employee's value is still improving. Most people are lucky to get a raise, but most IT professionals increase their market value easily more than twice the rate of inflation year-over-year, regardless of the current economic clients.

    Really, Ubermich summed up my point better than I did. There is a greater supply of IT jobs than there is demand in most areas.
    rwmidl wrote: »
    As others have said before, the only way to really get an increase in salary is to move on to another employer (more often than not).
    It sounds like you yourself have made a case that you need to move on. You have an impressive collection of high-level certs. I can only assume you are a highly competent security engineer. If I were you, I would be shopping around after even one year with no raise. You're worth it, and don't let the economy, your employer, or anything else make you think otherwise.
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  • ubermichubermich ■□□□□□□□□□ Posts: 20Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    the_Grinch wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I did expect some validation in my skills and this is probably what has caused me issues. I've had partners, managers, and field engineers tell me the difference I've made and then to hear otherwise was difficult to say the least.
    I find it best not to expect validation from management. The best employers will, but anyone average or below will not (even for their best-of-the-best employees). Take the comments from your partners/managers/field engineers and find satisfaction in those.
  • LinuxRacrLinuxRacr ■■■■□□□□□□ Posts: 651Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    ubermich wrote: »
    I find it best not to expect validation from management. The best employers will, but anyone average or below will not (even for their best-of-the-best employees). Take the comments from your partners/managers/field engineers and find satisfaction in those.

    This is what I have found to be the case as well. Most of the time I feel invisible to my manager, but my co-workers know what I do.
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  • NightShade1NightShade1 Posts: 431Member
    If i were you at the time they changed me from Network opertation center posicition to some helpdeks crappy position i would have start applying somewhere else.. Thats like going back... i wouldnt let them do that and i would have told them im not happy with that. If they still does well i would have start applying somwhere else. i dont think not even if they give me a rise... i mean in the future for example 2 years of NOC its much better than 2 years of helpdesk experience... it would affect me.

    Anyways im not answering your question but im just commenting... what would i do if i were you hah
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  • Forsaken_GAForsaken_GA Posts: 4,024Member
    Version4 wrote: »
    Consider it from the employer perspective though, what if they had plans for you to work on a project? You've just put a wrench in that plan. Now management has to explain to upper management / executive / proprietor that they need more time to plan for project X. That puts pressure on your manager because now that manager has to explain to upper management / executive / proprietor why project X will not meet the deadline. This pressure could cause a few harsh things to be said that aren’t necessarily meant. This is just one example and I am not saying this is how things are playing out for you.

    I understand your situation is hypothetical, but still no excuse for bad behavior on the employers part. If he'd previously voiced concerns and told them he was planning on leaving, planning the future around him would have been a truly foolish move, not unless his concerns had been addressed and remedied to the satisfaction of both parties.

    To the OP:

    While most of my partings have been amicable, there was one which was not, and was somewhat similar. One employer had the gall to compare me to Randy Moss and Brett Favre (ie, highly talented individuals that were not team players). I realized he was just frustrated because they'd been losing people left and right, and I was one of the few highly talented people left.

    Long story short, the company needs to take care of talent, because talent won't put up with bullshit for very long. It will leave.

    Just conduct yourself in a professional manner for the rest of your stay, and under no circumstances engage in any hostility. If they want you to do an exit interview, I would suggest you decline that as well. You've said all you need to, and absolutely nothing you say or do is going to change a thing about how the company operates. The last time I was asked to do an exit interview, I said I would, but my fee would be $500. If they wanted something above and beyond my normal job duties during my lead out (and telling them what's wrong with their company is definitely above and beyond normal job duties), they were going to pay for it. They declined. Just keep your cool, make sure you return any equipment which belongs to them, and do your job. Be professional at all times, no matter what. If they start making all kinds of unreasonable demands of you or threaten your final paycheck in any way, I'd check with an attorney. Part of the reason I refused to do an exit interview for free was that I'd checked with an attorney and found that in Georgia, as long as you don't retain anything owned by the company, or owe them money for things like vacation you took but hadn't yet accrued, it was a major issue for a company to not pay you out, and it'd be pretty easy to win the costs of your check and legal fees (and possibly punitive damages). Fortunately, I never had to use that particular club, but I was damn sure ready if I had to.
  • Forsaken_GAForsaken_GA Posts: 4,024Member
    LinuxRacr wrote: »
    This is what I have found to be the case as well. Most of the time I feel invisible to my manager, but my co-workers know what I do.

    I used to think the same thing, but when you're in that situation, you tend to only hear from your manager in an adversarial manner, which after awhile, begins to color your interactions. I don't need validation with my boss, but I do like them to be involved, if for no other reason than to make sure they know what's going on and I don't get hit with a "WTF is this?" style meeting out of the blue.
  • the_Grinchthe_Grinch ■■■■■■■■■■ Posts: 4,154Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I did express my disinterest in moving from NOC to Helpdesk, but my opinion was not counted in the decision. At that point I did begin to look for another position, but nothing at the time had panned out. I did have a talk with the owner of the company (he had an Mac issue and I am the only Mac person here) so we talked for about an hour while I worked on the issue. He expressed regret on me leaving and explained various things that were going on behind the scenes. He also said that I was the first person in 6 years to express an opinion without being asked and that they appreciated that. Also, they have asked if I would stay on as a contractor to cover weekend night shifts that come up. I'm considering it, but am also feeling that it might be in my best interest to make a clean break.

    One thing that is affecting my decision is my request in regards to my time off. My last company paid for any vacation time you had left when you leave the company. I asked my manager if that was the case here (every company has been different) and the reply I got was that it was clearly stated in the policies that they would not pay out vacation. In looking at the policy, it states that in the event of termination you forfeit your vacation, thus since this isn't a termination it seemed I might get paid. I wasn't going to drag the issue, thus I just confirmed that I could take the time that I have. Ultimately, I am out of here in 25 days so I'm not going to sweat the small stuff. I have learned that in the future I will leave it at a two weeks notice as five weeks is much too long.
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  • ZartanasaurusZartanasaurus Posts: 2,008Member
    the_Grinch wrote: »
    One thing that is affecting my decision is my request in regards to my time off. My last company paid for any vacation time you had left when you leave the company. I asked my manager if that was the case here (every company has been different) and the reply I got was that it was clearly stated in the policies that they would not pay out vacation. In looking at the policy, it states that in the event of termination you forfeit your vacation, thus since this isn't a termination it seemed I might get paid. I wasn't going to drag the issue, thus I just confirmed that I could take the time that I have. Ultimately, I am out of here in 25 days so I'm not going to sweat the small stuff. I have learned that in the future I will leave it at a two weeks notice as five weeks is much too long.
    This is a state specific issue. About half of all states require a payout of unused vacation time in the last paycheck.

    Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island (after one year of employment), Tennessee, West Virginia, and Wyoming--and the District of Columbia require that your employer include any unused vacation pay that has accrued (that you would have been entitled to use) in your final paycheck.
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  • LizanoLizano ■■■□□□□□□□ Posts: 230Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I think you are entitled to being a bit ticked off about their attitude, it's 2 years of your life during which it sounds like you put your heart and soul into doing the best damn job you could possibly do, and if you're like me you'd think you'd get at least a decent "Farewell and Good Luck!".

    This might not be exactly your situation but here goes my story: I worked for a large corporation for over 4 years, I never held the same position for more than 15 months, within 15 months of being in a position I had it knocked out, I was a top performer, and got promoted. I got 4 promotions in 4 years. Before my 4th year was over, management had changed quite a bit, things were not going well and I was getting a lot of heat for things not going well, I proposed changes to make things better, but they never listened, never applied any changes, and kept putting the heat on me when things kept of going bad, the situation ultimately became unsustainable and I had to go before I got to my 5 year mark. When I said I was leaving they told me to get out immediately, that they didn't want me to give notice! I put so many unpaid overtime hours into the place (many were paid but sometime some stuff just had to get done), and then all of a sudden I was left with nothing, I didn't even have time to find a new job, my direct boss was on a Conference while I was leaving, he hit mute, shook my hand and said I'll call you as soon as I get off this call. I never got that call. I wasn't really thinking I was actually going to leave when I told them I was going to give notice, I was actually kind off bluffing to see if I got them to make some of the changes I recommended, or at least any changes at all, so that really sucked.

    After that job, I worked at another large corporation, I was there for a year, I was doing great, my boss was great, but I simply had another job opportunity too good to not take it. I gave 1 month notice, my boss offered me to go try out the new position for 3 months, and if I didn't like it, he would give me my job back, he was also present at my good-bye party when I left and has told me he would recommend me if I ever applied at any other position in that company.

    We all have good ones and bad ones, I've learned a lot from the way I've left my previous jobs.
  • erpadminerpadmin Posts: 4,165Member
    the_Grinch wrote: »
    I did have a talk with the owner of the company (he had an Mac issue and I am the only Mac person here) so we talked for about an hour while I worked on the issue. He expressed regret on me leaving and explained various things that were going on behind the scenes. He also said that I was the first person in 6 years to express an opinion without being asked and that they appreciated that.

    This right there is an example of a s---ty company.

    Mind you, it's considered management perogative to keep subordinates in the loop (especially if they're on that need-to-know-basis nonsense.) However, good management will at the very least want to hear a subordinate out on an idea. My management always has been encouraging on hearing opinions and sometimes will take things into consideration, and sometimes will want you to act on your ideas. When things go right, of course they will take the credit, but that's just how that goes.

    You did the right thing considering a clean break, and I wish you the best in your new gig. Believe me, it's better to be happy than miserable and this place seems like it would be miserable. The fact that no one offers an opinion at this place tells me that management is severely short-sighted. In the end, you're better off.
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