A bill to remove remove overtime from IT workers

Hypntick

S. 1747: Computer Professionals Update Act (GovTrack.us)

Don't have a lot of time at the moment, but thought I would bring this to everyone's attention.

Mishra

I love how our federal government worries about things like overtime....

veritas_libertas

Interesting. I'm curious to hear what everyone thinks about this.

Everyone

Hmm, really only affects anyone making OVER $27.63/hr. When you make that much, you usually are either A. already on salary and therefore don't get overtime pay anyway, or B. working somewhere that would only approve overtime in emergency situations.

So while it kinda sucks, I don't see it as being a huge deal.

veritas_libertas

Well, when I said I wanted to hear what everyone thought, I didn't think it would literally happen

Bokeh

So if youre salary and make less, do they have to owe you overtime if you work past 40 hours? I can see some smaller companies have an exemption to this based on the total amount of employees they have, or if you work for a larger company but at a regional office them trying the same tactic.

Will be interested to see how this pans out.

tpatt100

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Well, when I said I wanted to hear what everyonethought, I didn't think it would literally happen

Ok I just realized what you meant lol.

Zartanasaurus

I'm confused.

Currently, most of us are already eligible to be exempt from overtime rules. We just have to be:
a) Primarily employed as a computer professional IE network/server/DB admin, programmer and the like.
b) Make a salary of ~$23K/year or make an hourly rate of ~$27/hr.

So it's pretty easy to just make us salaried employees and be exempt.

Based on a quick google search it looks like they are just trying to clarify the definition of what "a" is. No modification to "b".

Currently:


The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software or system functional specifications;
The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design specifications;
The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to machine operating systems; or
A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of skills.


New bill:

(17) any employee working in a computer or information technology occupation (including, but not limited to, work related to computers, information systems, components, networks, software, hardware, databases, security, internet, intranet, or websites) as an analyst, programmer, engineer, designer, developer, administrator, or other similarly skilled worker, whose primary duty is–
(A) the application of systems, network or database analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine or modify hardware, software, network, database, or system functional specifications;


(B) the design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing, securing, configuration, integration, debugging, modification of computer or information technology, or enabling continuity of systems and applications;


(C) directing the work of individuals performing duties described in subparagraph (A) or (B), including training such individuals or leading teams performing such duties; or


(D) a combination of duties described in subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C), the performance of which requires the same level of skill;

Don't see a huge difference. The main one appears to be (C), which would include IT managers or trainers which seems pretty fair to me.

What probably happened was there was some court case were an IT worker that probably should fall under old rules wasn't, like a web designer or something. So the definitions are being updated to keep up with the industry.

SteveLord

Everyone wrote: »

Hmm, really only affects anyone making OVER $27.63/hr. When you make that much, you usually are either A. already on salary and therefore don't get overtime pay anyway, or B. working somewhere that would only approve overtime in emergency situations.

So while it kinda sucks, I don't see it as being a huge deal.

Good point. In my state government, only up to a certain IT classification can you qualify for time-in-a-half overtime. Everything else is regular rate. And typically, overtime is reserved for special projects.....and rare as hell anyway.

IEWANNABE

But...but....but... but what ever happened to the free market. Certainly there are things that the govt needs to regulate, but I don't think O/T is one of them.

N2IT

How about the Government stop printing money and manage the budget.

And while you are at it audit the federal reserve.

Everyone

Bokeh wrote:

So if youre salary and make less, do they have to owe you overtime if you work past 40 hours? I can see some smaller companies have an exemption to this based on the total amount of employees they have, or if you work for a larger company but at a regional office them trying the same tactic.

Will be interested to see how this pans out.

No, this is for hourly wage earners. Salary = exempt = no overtime pay.

SteveLord wrote: »

Good point. In my state government, only up to a certain IT classification can you qualify for time-in-a-half overtime. Everything else is regular rate. And typically, overtime is reserved for special projects.....and rare as hell anyway.

I believe you meant time-AND-a-half. My first job out of the Air Force was on a contract that was tied to a State wage and determination scale. My base hourly wage was $27.62/hr, then we got a couple extra $/hr for benefits. We got in big trouble if we charged overtime without approval. Almost never got overtime, only a couple times for emergencies.


Basically what it boils down to is if you work somewhere and your hourly wage is LESS than $27.63/hr, they have to pay you overtime for ever hour worked over 40 hours per week. Overtime = time-and-a-half, or 1.5x your base rate. If your hourly wage is MORE THAN $27.63/hr, then you're exempt, just like a salaried employee would be, and may as well just be on salary if you make over that amount.

nel

people still get OT?! damn i struggle to get my lieu hours back!

JDMurray

Mishra wrote: »

I love how our federal government worries about things like overtime....

It's usually a single Congressman who gets a bug up his/her a$$ about something. I remember when Senator Pat Moynihan stuck it to self-employed, high-tech professionals back in the mid-1980 by removing their exemptions from payroll taxes to pay for other things he wanted done. Supposedly that guy who flew his light aircraft into an IRS building last year was a programmer still upset over it.

tpatt100

IEWANNABE wrote: »

But...but....but... but what ever happened to the free market. Certainly there are things that the govt needs to regulate, but I don't think O/T is one of them.

But what if they did away with over time and just paid you regular wage?

blargoe

The sponsor of this bull... I mean bill, is Kay Hagan, a freshman senator from my state of North Carolina. I might have to send her a letter telling her what I think.

This especially pisses me off, because I'm in the running for a position at which I would be eligible for a significant amount of overtime pay, which is a big part of the appeal of the job in question.

For your info, here's the wording of the current version of the FLSA, section (17)(a) http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/statutes/FairLaborStandAct.pdf

(17)
any employee who is a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software engineer, or other similarly skilled worker, whose primary duty is—
(A)
the application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software, or system functional specifications;
(B)
the design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing, or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design specifications;
(C)
the design, documentation, testing, creation, or modification of computer programs related to machine operating systems; or
(D)
a combination of duties described in subparagraphs (A), (B), and
(C)
the performance of which requires the same level of skills, and
who, in the case of an employee who is compensated on an hourly basis, is compensated at a rate of not less than $27.63 an hour.

And the proposed amendment the "CPU Act"

‘(17) any employee working in a computer or information technology occupation (including, but not limited to, work related to computers, information systems, components, networks, software, hardware, databases, security, internet, intranet, or websites) as an analyst, programmer, engineer, designer, developer, administrator, or other similarly skilled worker, whose primary duty is--

‘(A) the application of systems, network or database analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine or modify hardware, software, network, database, or system functional specifications;

‘(B) the design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing, securing, configuration, integration, debugging, modification of computer or information technology, or enabling continuity of systems and applications;

‘(C) directing the work of individuals performing duties described in subparagraph (A) or (B), including training such individuals or leading teams performing such duties; or

‘(D) a combination of duties described in subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C), the performance of which requires the same level of skill;

who is compensated at an hourly rate of not less than $27.63 an hour or who is paid on a salary basis at a salary level as set forth by the Department of Labor in part 541 of title 29, Code of Federal Regulations. An employee described in this paragraph shall be considered an employee in a professional capacity pursuant to paragraph (1).’.

The salary level referred to can be found here: Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:... Looks like $100K

Mishra

Actual Congressional Authority:

Collect Taxes
Borrow money
Regulate foreign commerce
Establish bankruptcy
Coin Money
Provide punishment for Counterfeiting
Establish the post office
Establish Patents
Constitute Tribunals
Guard high seas
Declare War
Provide an Army/Navy and establish rules for them
Provide militia and organize them if needed
and Deal with cession

Assumed and Practiced Congressional Authority:

Too long to list...

veritas_libertas

N2IT wrote: »

How about the Government stop printing money and manage the budget.

And while you are at it audit the federal reserve.

You make the dangerous assumption that the government uses common sense in their decisions

blargoe

Everyone wrote: »

Hmm, really only affects anyone making OVER $27.63/hr. When you make that much, you usually are either A. already on salary and therefore don't get overtime pay anyway, or B. working somewhere that would only approve overtime in emergency situations.

So while it kinda sucks, I don't see it as being a huge deal.

$27.63 an hour is just a little over $50,000 a year. In some markets, that not much more than entry level wages.

blargoe

The purpose of the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act. Doesn't this "CPU Act" amendment seem counter-intuitive to the intent of the FLSA?

§ 202. Congressional finding and declaration of policy
(a)
The Congress finds that the existence, in industries engaged in commerce or in the production of goods for commerce, of labor conditions detrimental to the maintenance of the minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency, and general well-being of workers
(1)
causes commerce and the channels and instrumentalities of commerce to be used to spread and perpetuate such labor conditions among the workers of the several States;
(2)
burdens commerce and the free flow of goods in commerce;
(3)
constitutes an unfair method of competition in commerce;
(4)
leads to labor disputes burdening and obstructing commerce and the free flow of goods in commerce; and
(5)
interferes with the orderly and fair marketing of goods in commerce. That Congress further finds that the employment of persons in domestic service in households affects commerce.
(b)
It is declared to be the policy of this chapter, through the exercise by Congress of its power to regulate commerce among the several States and with foreign nations, to correct and as rapidly as practicable to eliminate the conditions above referred to in such industries without substantially curtailing employment or earning power.
1

tpatt100

I am kind of confused as to the reason behind this. I know Gov Snyder here in Michigan is pushing for relaxed HI-B visas to help keep immigrants here if they graduate college here but I read its also due to lobbyists trying to find ways to depress wages with increasing the number of immigrant workers.

Is there an angle here that might be a push from lobbyists for some economic reason?

Zartanasaurus

Mishra wrote: »

Regulate foreign commerce

Regulate interstate commerce.
Establish justice.
Promote the general welfare.

Zartanasaurus

Could someone explain the actual change this would make to the current law? I'm not seeing anything but a definition change to make those covered more explicit.

Zartanasaurus

blargoe wrote: »

$27.63 an hour is just a little over $50,000 a year. In some markets, that not much more than entry level wages.

Closer to $60K than $50K. 57.5K per year.

TeKniques

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

Closer to $60K than $50K. 57.5K per year.

After taxes (like in my state) you'll be just over $40k.

I personally don't see how it's fair nor the Government's business how much someone makes to qualify OT pay.

Mishra

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

Establish justice.
Promote the general welfare.

Show me where Congress has these 2 powers under Article 1 Section 8 and you get a cookie.

tpatt100

TeKniques wrote: »

After taxes (like in my state) you'll be just over $40k.

I personally don't see how it's fair nor the Government's business how much someone makes to qualify OT pay.

But wasn't it the government that pushed for the overtime regulation in the first place?

alan2308

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Well, when I said I wanted to hear what everyone thought, I didn't think it would literally happen

So we can close the thread now?

tpatt100

Mishra wrote: »

Show me where Congress has these 2 powers under Article 1 Section 8 and you get a cookie.

U.S. CONSTITUTION

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Mishra

tpatt100 wrote: »

U.S. CONSTITUTION

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's a preamble. That's the general purpose of what the federal government should do. Not authority or expression of each branch's power.

tpatt100

Mishra wrote: »

That's a preamble. That's the general purpose of what the federal government should do. Not authority or expression of each branch's power.

Good enough? I know there were amendments that cover this

Section. 8.Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;