Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse, need to improrve my CCNA Study Habits

JockVSJock

Greetings.

Since I'm over two years trying to study for my CCENT, I'm really beginning to review the following:

-study habits
-time management

I will admit, I like to learn, however learning hasn't always come easy for me. Matter of fact, it gets very frustrating for me at times.

I subscribe the Packet Pushers Blog and found the Leveling Up – Studying For Certifications Using The Pomodoro Technique And Manageable Task Lists and have started to use that.

However I think my approach to what to study and in what order to study it is incorrect and could be the root cause of my frustration.

With the CCNA, I'm trying to do it all at once.

However from what I'm seeing from others when they pass and post their results is that they start like this:

reading > memorizing terms > reviewing end of chapter quizes > labbing > testing > get the cert

Is that what others are doing here?

Right now I have a spreadsheet where I keep tasks and I'm marking it every day, once I get study time in. Here are my tasks that I study:

-flashcards
-brows forums
-labbing
-Odom reading
-review Odom notes
-review Bryant notes
-general review
-relax
-subnetting
-testing
-watching Bryant videos

I still feel like I'm all over with what I'm trying to study. And someone once posted that once you get 125 hours of study time in, you should be good to go with the test.

So in a nutshell, I'm looking for feedback on what do I need to study first and then move on to or basically setup some better study habits to finish out this cert and get better for the next one.

I hope all of this makes sense.

thanks

pham0329

Take this however you want, but the CCENT should not require 2 years of study...it's a relatively easy exam. If you've been studying for it for 2 years, and you're still not getting it, then imo

1. You're not consistent in your study habits (1 hour a day, 5 minutes the next, etc..)
2. You're simply reading the text and taking notes without thinking/understanding the material

Instead of using the boatload of materials you have, pick one that you like, and use it. Go through the book and study each section until you've master it before moving on.

cisco_trooper

You may be getting a little OCD about it. You've got a whole list of stuff you are doing every day and to be honest it doesn't look like a manageable list. Pick a resource and use it. Read through the book in its entirety without labbing anything and write down or highlight questions you have as you go just to get a feel for everything. Read the book a second time and lab as you go. For example, if you are reading a chapter on EIGRP have a 3 routers sitting next to you and actually do the stuff. Continue referring to that chapter as needed until you get it. Make up scenarios while you lab and ask yourself questions like, "Well, what if I do this, or what if I do that?" Learning is a hands on experience for most people and I find the method to be extremely useful. You are reading, writing, AND doing and I don't think there is a better way to learn. Once you have labbed the whole book, read it again. Make sure you still understand everything and refer to your lab when you find you don't remember how to get EIGRP going on a specific interface. Once all that is done, start quizzing the chapter questions. The rote memorization of terms, specific protocol timers, timeouts and such is the last step in this whole process for me.

cyberguypr

Cisco_trooper is right, you are doing too much. It is astonishingly easy to get lost in a sea of material from different sources. Stick to one main source and introduce others when something is unclear. His recommendation of a first pass just reading and taking notes is spot on. In the old thread you reference Turgon said the same thing:

Turgon wrote: »

I would say hammer the reading each day for a month straight so your study footprint get's bigger. Don't get hung up on the quality of the learning at this point, just get through a book or two. After that, try some practice tests each day and start focusing in on a particular topic for a couple of days before moving along.

I call this informal reading. Read without over-thinking it, just to see what sticks. That way you can go and research topics you don't completely grasp. The steps should be "reading > comprehending > memorizing terms >". Don't memorize for the heck of it. Make sure you understand the concepts before doing anything else. Don't advance on a chapter that you do not fully understand. I found Lammle very useful when Odom got too detailed.

Keep in mind that the minute you obsess and make it too hard, it stops being fun and in my opinion it's not worth it.

JockVSJock

cyberguypr wrote: »

Cisco_trooper is right, you are doing too much. It is astonishingly easy to get lost in a sea of material.

I agree, I feel that there is too much material and it is confusing. For an entry level cert, there is alot too it say Vs the CompTIA certs.

cyberguypr wrote: »

Keep in mind that the minute you obsess and make it too hard, it stops being fun and in my opinion it's not worth it.

I agree, studying for this cert hasn't been any fun. Especially since all I'm trying to do is escape the world of desktop/customer service support and go onto something bigger and better.

alxx

1 thing/topic/chapter at a time.
read it, view it, write summary/notes/flashcards and lab it.

Keep it simple

What I'm doing is one chapter at a time, read it, then take notes, view a video on it .
Then do the lab exercises. Then do practise questions. Then do flash cards.
Can take me a couple of hours to a week per chapter.

I'm looking at doing ICND1 exam in second week of Jan.


Are you testing yourself with practise exams to track your progress ?

I'm now focusing on icnd1/ccent now capstone/undergrad thesis is in and over(just work to get in the way).
Hopefully now just 4 subjects left in my degree (been 11 years part time).

Bought myself the bosun exsim max practise exam questions yesterday as they are on special.

Have you registered the free ones that come with the Odom book ?
Gives 10% off ex sim max and the special this week (for liking bosun on facebook) was 25% off (saved $80 for icnd1 and 2 exsim max)

kevin31

Hi jockvsjock,

Sorry don't no your name! I am in a similar position to you over 4 years studying on and off for ccna. Only took exam 802 once October 2010 and scored 736.

I have been lookin at similar things with time management and procrastination but not seems to help. I read books never remember any of it do labs even listen to audio training but still seem to fall short on practice exams.

Sound familiar?

Kev

JockVSJock

kevin31 wrote: »

Hi jockvsjock,

Sorry don't no your name! I am in a similar position to you over 4 years studying on and off for ccna. Only took exam 802 once October 2010 and scored 736.

I have been lookin at similar things with time management and procrastination but not seems to help. I read books never remember any of it do labs even listen to audio training but still seem to fall short on practice exams.

Sound familiar?

Kev

Hi Kevin31, I feel your pain, and glad you posted. I'm sure we are not alone.

However putting myself into this situation, I'm hoping to learn from it and get better for the next certs. I've got a few more advanced certs to knock out here before I can really take some time off.

Things have gotten better for me, however I still don't feel comfortable to book the CCENT test at this time and take it, so I keep plugging away.

Some of the things that have helped me, and these might help you:

-Purchase the Train Signal DVDs with Chris Bryant. Although he doesn't cover everything, I feel that his simple and basic instructions have really helped me more then any other Cisco training material that I have. I wish I would have started with these videos before cracking either Odoms or Lammle's book. The more I read, the more frustrated I got, especially with subnetting. And the good thing here is, you can keep replaying them over and over till it sinks in. There was a guy on this forum by the name of Dyanmic who said he used to play training DVDs while he was doing the dishes or cleaning his house.

-The Pomodoro Technique for studying. You are basically studying for 25 minutes, taking a break for 5 minutes and once you do 4 25 minute sessions, you then take a 20 minute break. I broke down the different things I am trying to study, but feel this maybe bogging me down...But, I do feel this is helping too...read more here...The Pomodoro Technique®

-Study Hacks blog. I feel this guy has some good ideas studywise and I've tried to implement them...your mileage may vary
Study Hacks

-Biggest help, is that I work a job with the US Army, where I get to touch and work on actual production Cisco routers, switches, call manager and voip phones. Got to change the encapsulation protocol on a router the other day. Hope to get more hands on here in the near future because for me, getting the correct experience has been harder then hell for me...

-And this forum. We have a great group of people on here will to help with questions and provide support. Again, I wish this forum was around when I was getting started in my career over 12 years ago

HTH

MAC_Addy

I'm going to butt in and ask the question, how long each day should one study? I usually try to spend at least 2 hours per day. Whether it be listening to audio while driving, reading, watching nuggets or labbing.

alxx

Other question is when are you studying ?

Trying to study when you are tired is a mistake , you won't absorb it.

MAC_Addy

If I'm driving to the office I usually stick it on. I travel a lot for me job so I listen to them at any point of the day. When I'm reading it's after 5pm on the weekdays and mostly every weekend. I extracted the audio from my CBT nuggets package, so I can put two and two together when I'm studying.

JockVSJock

MAC_Addy wrote: »

I'm going to butt in and ask the question, how long each day should one study? I usually try to spend at least 2 hours per day. Whether it be listening to audio while driving, reading, watching nuggets or labbing.

I try to get as much study time in as I can each day. So it can range from 2 to 4 hours a day or more, depending on if I making progress or now.

It sounds like most people are only putting in 2 hours day, and only studying Monday thru Friday, correct?

kevin31

JockVSJock wrote: »

Hi Kevin31, I feel your pain, and glad you posted. I'm sure we are not alone.

However putting myself into this situation, I'm hoping to learn from it and get better for the next certs. I've got a few more advanced certs to knock out here before I can really take some time off.

Things have gotten better for me, however I still don't feel comfortable to book the CCENT test at this time and take it, so I keep plugging away.

Some of the things that have helped me, and these might help you:

-Purchase the Train Signal DVDs with Chris Bryant. Although he doesn't cover everything, I feel that his simple and basic instructions have really helped me more then any other Cisco training material that I have. I wish I would have started with these videos before cracking either Odoms or Lammle's book. The more I read, the more frustrated I got, especially with subnetting. And the good thing here is, you can keep replaying them over and over till it sinks in. There was a guy on this forum by the name of Dyanmic who said he used to play training DVDs while he was doing the dishes or cleaning his house.

-The Pomodoro Technique for studying. You are basically studying for 25 minutes, taking a break for 5 minutes and once you do 4 25 minute sessions, you then take a 20 minute break. I broke down the different things I am trying to study, but feel this maybe bogging me down...But, I do feel this is helping too...read more here...The Pomodoro Technique®

-Study Hacks blog. I feel this guy has some good ideas studywise and I've tried to implement them...your mileage may vary
Study Hacks

-Biggest help, is that I work a job with the US Army, where I get to touch and work on actual production Cisco routers, switches, call manager and voip phones. Got to change the encapsulation protocol on a router the other day. Hope to get more hands on here in the near future because for me, getting the correct experience has been harder then hell for me...

-And this forum. We have a great group of people on here will to help with questions and provide support. Again, I wish this forum was around when I was getting started in my career over 12 years ago

HTH

Hi

Got the CBT nuggets did try the Trainsignal ones but couldnt get on with them also had Chris Bryants Study guide when I first started but its probably out of date now. Im exaclty the same more I read the more frustrated I get to seems I am reading for no reason as I never feel I have taken any of it in? I have an audio version I try listening to alot which I think has helped but still no where near any good results on the practice exams.

Thank you for the info on The Pomodoro Technique will try this see how I get on. I have been trying to break it up rather then studying for 2 or 3 hours in one go I been reading for hour in mornings then labbibng later what I have read. Problem is get in from work and dont want to start anything then as Im to tired.

Will check out study hacks.

Yeah I do think working on the Kit at work helps to. I dont actually tocuh any cisco gear at work so at a disadvantage there. I do have a full lab at home so no real excuse there. I no what you mean subnetting I used to struggle with but it just hits you one day and the feeling is amazing. Im now struggling with remebering the syntax for ACL's

Do you have a study schedule or time table? How much you get done at weekends?

Kev

stlsmoore

I've been using the Pomodoro technique myself for my CCNP Voice Studies. My habits were always to read and lab as I go and see examples in book. Instead of using the exact book example I try to change it up a little bit. Even if it's just using a different hostname, IP, dial-peer destination number, etc. My hours varies, if I see examples I can lab I try to go for at least 2 hours maybe 3 for that day. If it seems like it's mostly theory reading for that day I'm studying I don't go over 90 minutes as for me there's only so much you can soak in with reading technical material. I need to knock out my CCNP: Voice pretty quick so I'm doing a max of 2 hours on weekends and 3 hours on weekdays give or take.

Burnout is a serious epidemic, I almost ran into it with my CCNA. I was jobless but was studying 8-12 hours a day for 2 months straight, I almost gave up a week before I was supposed to take the test. So glad I didn't because I passed my CCNA the same day 20 minutes before I got a call from a employer telling me that I was accepted I for this NOC job at the time which had CCNA as a requirement.

kevin31

stlsmoore wrote: »

I've been using the Pomodoro technique myself for my CCNP Voice Studies. My habits were always to read and lab as I go and see examples in book. Instead of using the exact book example I try to change it up a little bit. Even if it's just using a different hostname, IP, dial-peer destination number, etc. My hours varies, if I see examples I can lab I try to go for at least 2 hours maybe 3 for that day. If it seems like it's mostly theory reading for that day I'm studying I don't go over 90 minutes as for me there's only so much you can soak in with reading technical material. I need to knock out my CCNP: Voice pretty quick so I'm doing a max of 2 hours on weekends and 3 hours on weekdays give or take.

Burnout is a serious epidemic, I almost ran into it with my CCNA. I was jobless but was studying 8-12 hours a day for 2 months straight, I almost gave up a week before I was supposed to take the test. So glad I didn't because I passed my CCNA the same day 20 minutes before I got a call from a employer telling me that I was accepted I for this NOC job at the time which had CCNA as a requirement.

How far through the CCNP voice are you?

Kev

stlsmoore

Not far at all, about a week into it not counting planning and setting up my lab. Knocked out about 130 pages already though using my current method above.

alxx

Week nights I usually do 1 -2 hours. Then 2-4 hours on saturdays and sundays
I try to split it into 30 -40 minute blocks.


Have you got any of the practise exams like the ones that come with the cisco books ?
How did you go with them ?

JockVSJock

alxx wrote: »

Have you got any of the practise exams like the ones that come with the cisco books ?
How did you go with them ?

I have access to Skillsoft and did their CCENT. I got a low 60 the first time I took and have gotten better.

I just want to get into that confidence zone that I know I can do it and the adrenaline is rushing on test day.

instant000

Studying for certification tests is different for people.

Now, when studying for Cisco tests, I'll give you all the parts of it (as I see it):
1 - Theory (There is a basic theory behind things. Often, people are weak here. For more experienced people, they don't have respect for this gap in basic knowledge. I mean to say, you KNOW why it's no good for the customer calling with a networking issue to provide you with a MAC address when they're three hops away, but their IP address is a lot more useful to begin troubleshooting, and the MAC is more useful once you get closer to them.)
2 - Memorization (There is a certain amount you have to memorize to pass tests. Certain things are just "facts". Fortunately for the most part, you don't have to get overly worried about these on Cisco tests.)
3 - How-To (You have to practice using the devices, doing the binary math/subnetting etc.)

Now, people have different memory cycles, but one of the best memory techniques out there is "spaced repetition." It basically means that you go over things often enough that what you learned at first isn't totally stale by the time you get to the end. I believe that this is undoubtedly happening to you here.

Basically, you have to exercise your brain for the certification. Look at a standard bodily exercise training program: You do pulling exercises one day, pushing exercises another, and situps everyday You take time off in-between, but you work everything each week.

Look at your Cisco training the same way:
Day 1 - EIGRP & RIP + Flash Cards
Day 2 - OSPF + Flash Cards
Day 3 - VTP, STP + Flash Cards + Self-Testing
Day 4 - ACLs/NAT + Flash Cards
Day 5 - WAN + Flash Cards
Day 6 - Wireless + Flash Cards + Self-Testing
Day 7 - Rest + Flash Cards
(Repeat)

Now, I recommend your trying this method, for two weeks, and then seeing how you do with it, and how well your retention has improved.

1. Basically, EACH work day, you're reviewing your entire deck of flash cards (against all topics).
2. Self-testing is basically going through the entire set of questions in your book, trying to get them all right. I tried to schedule these against the same day as your lightest topics, but I don't know what are the easiest topics of you, so modify the schedule accordingly.
3. Then, each day, you're doing an in-depth study on one particular topic set, which is mostly labbing, but also reading, as required. If you have open-ended questions to study, they work great here (That is, something like the Written Labs in Todd Lammle's books, where you have to answer the question, but it's not multiple choice, so you either know the answer, or not.)

I know this type of schedule might not work for some, but since you've obviously tried other things, try this. Honestly, I believe the optimal time to re-hit a topic is within 5 days (especially for the first time through). I know this goes straight in the face of what a lot of people recommend, but I feel that you have lot of intelligence, but maybe not a sound learning technique. Try this for two weeks, and let us know how your retention works out. Obviously, if you can compress the schedule and perform the complete review cycle in 5 days or less with little effort (because you're so familiar with the material), then you're ready for the exam.

This is what I usually do in this order (has worked so far for me).
1 - Read the book (just get through the thing. Don't worry about doing labs, or answering questions just yet.)
2 - Make flash cards (if it looks like it could be a question, I make a card on it. I also make cards on the actual questions in my text books, also. No reason to leave something to chance. For reference, I made over 1,000 cards for CCNA.) This is usually a slow and ardurous step, but it will be rewarding later. If you have ebook formats, you can copy/paste to make these, which should be pretty quick. Also, you can import .csv files into your flash card program.
3 - Labbing / Flash Cards / Review (At this phase, I'm just doing the hands-on labs that come with the text, reviewing the questions in the text, and grilling myself in the flash cards. I'm not going back to read this book at this point, or look at any other links EXCEPT to get a better understanding on something that didn't sound just right. For example, just today, I'm going through the Chris Bryant ROUTE material, but something didn't work as designed, so I ended up looking at a Youtube video someone else made, and the issue was down to the fact that the ip default-network command didn't work until it had a classful network, which I caught from seeing the video from someone else. As Bryant's material is designed to lab as you go, I've been copying down the labs, and making review notes, so I don't have to go back to the material once I get through it ... as, you can see, I believe in investing the time up front to make the flash cards, so the review process can go faster.)

I hope this helps!
Here's my CCNA Thread.

Feel free to reference it for ideas. http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccna-ccent/66510-my-journey-ccna-640-802-a.html

Also, feel free to ask more questions in this thread.

kevin31

instant000 wrote: »

Studying for certification tests is different for people.

Now, when studying for Cisco tests, I'll give you all the parts of it (as I see it):
1 - Theory (There is a basic theory behind things. Often, people are weak here. For more experienced people, they don't have respect for this gap in basic knowledge. I mean to say, you KNOW why it's no good for the customer calling with a networking issue to provide you with a MAC address when they're three hops away, but their IP address is a lot more useful to begin troubleshooting, and the MAC is more useful once you get closer to them.)
2 - Memorization (There is a certain amount you have to memorize to pass tests. Certain things are just "facts". Fortunately for the most part, you don't have to get overly worried about these on Cisco tests.)
3 - How-To (You have to practice using the devices, doing the binary math/subnetting etc.)

Now, people have different memory cycles, but one of the best memory techniques out there is "spaced repetition." It basically means that you go over things often enough that what you learned at first isn't totally stale by the time you get to the end. I believe that this is undoubtedly happening to you here.

Basically, you have to exercise your brain for the certification. Look at a standard bodily exercise training program: You do pulling exercises one day, pushing exercises another, and situps everyday You take time off in-between, but you work everything each week.

Look at your Cisco training the same way:
Day 1 - EIGRP & RIP + Flash Cards
Day 2 - OSPF + Flash Cards
Day 3 - VTP, STP + Flash Cards + Self-Testing
Day 4 - ACLs/NAT + Flash Cards
Day 5 - WAN + Flash Cards
Day 6 - Wireless + Flash Cards + Self-Testing
Day 7 - Rest + Flash Cards
(Repeat)

Now, I recommend your trying this method, for two weeks, and then seeing how you do with it, and how well your retention has improved.

1. Basically, EACH work day, you're reviewing your entire deck of flash cards (against all topics).
2. Self-testing is basically going through the entire set of questions in your book, trying to get them all right. I tried to schedule these against the same day as your lightest topics, but I don't know what are the easiest topics of you, so modify the schedule accordingly.
3. Then, each day, you're doing an in-depth study on one particular topic set, which is mostly labbing, but also reading, as required. If you have open-ended questions to study, they work great here (That is, something like the Written Labs in Todd Lammle's books, where you have to answer the question, but it's not multiple choice, so you either know the answer, or not.)

I know this type of schedule might not work for some, but since you've obviously tried other things, try this. Honestly, I believe the optimal time to re-hit a topic is within 5 days (especially for the first time through). I know this goes straight in the face of what a lot of people recommend, but I feel that you have lot of intelligence, but maybe not a sound learning technique. Try this for two weeks, and let us know how your retention works out. Obviously, if you can compress the schedule and perform the complete review cycle in 5 days or less with little effort (because you're so familiar with the material), then you're ready for the exam.

This is what I usually do in this order (has worked so far for me).
1 - Read the book (just get through the thing. Don't worry about doing labs, or answering questions just yet.)
2 - Make flash cards (if it looks like it could be a question, I make a card on it. I also make cards on the actual questions in my text books, also. No reason to leave something to chance. For reference, I made over 1,000 cards for CCNA.) This is usually a slow and ardurous step, but it will be rewarding later. If you have ebook formats, you can copy/paste to make these, which should be pretty quick. Also, you can import .csv files into your flash card program.
3 - Labbing / Flash Cards / Review (At this phase, I'm just doing the hands-on labs that come with the text, reviewing the questions in the text, and grilling myself in the flash cards. I'm not going back to read this book at this point, or look at any other links EXCEPT to get a better understanding on something that didn't sound just right. For example, just today, I'm going through the Chris Bryant ROUTE material, but something didn't work as designed, so I ended up looking at a Youtube video someone else made, and the issue was down to the fact that the ip default-network command didn't work until it had a classful network, which I caught from seeing the video from someone else. As Bryant's material is designed to lab as you go, I've been copying down the labs, and making review notes, so I don't have to go back to the material once I get through it ... as, you can see, I believe in investing the time up front to make the flash cards, so the review process can go faster.)

I hope this helps!
Here's my CCNA Thread.

Feel free to reference it for ideas. http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccna-ccent/66510-my-journey-ccna-640-802-a.html

Also, feel free to ask more questions in this thread.

wow Great Post thank you! Think you have hit the nail in the head with me not sure about JockVsJock. Its defo the how I study that is my issue and i like the below that you posted:

Look at your Cisco training the same way:
Day 1 - EIGRP & RIP + Flash Cards
Day 2 - OSPF + Flash Cards
Day 3 - VTP, STP + Flash Cards + Self-Testing
Day 4 - ACLs/NAT + Flash Cards
Day 5 - WAN + Flash Cards
Day 6 - Wireless + Flash Cards + Self-Testing
Day 7 - Rest + Flash Cards
(Repeat)

I dont really get the point of flash cards and cant see how they help so what could I replace them with? Also by self testing do you mean taking practice exams on those subjects or on the full CCNA? Instead of falsh cards could it be replaced with something else? Im really wanting to try your method sounds like it could work for me.

As i happens just about finished a read of the book so my next step would be lab and review so could starrt the above? How many hours a day were you putting in? and how long it take you to pass?

thanks

Kevin

Turgon

JockVSJock wrote: »

I try to get as much study time in as I can each day. So it can range from 2 to 4 hours a day or more, depending on if I making progress or now.

It sounds like most people are only putting in 2 hours day, and only studying Monday thru Friday, correct?

Have you been putting in 2 to 4 hours per day for 2 years?

lanrexng2

Turgon wrote: »

Have you been putting in 2 to 4 hours per day for 2 years?

wow 1000 hours will make you and expert or sub expert

Awesome thread. Cisco learning material is endless and almost overwhelming!

instant000

kevin31 wrote: »

wow Great Post thank you!

You're welcome.

I dont really get the point of flash cards and cant see how they help so what could I replace them with?

If you look at my post, flash cards are the MEAT of the study. You do them EVERY day. They're your core, like abs. You CAN'T replace them!

Also by self testing do you mean taking practice exams on those subjects or on the full CCNA?

By self-testing, I'm referring to going over the review questions or whatever comes with your book. I'm not referring to going out and buying practice tests. Sorry for not being more clear. You know you're good when you understand all of the answer choices, and why each of them does or does not apply to the questions asked. Like I say, I prefer open-ended questions, where you're not given an answer choice, and you just have to fill in the blank. When you're on the job, you don't get multiple-choice questions!

Instead of falsh cards could it be replaced with something else?

NO. See what I posted earlier, about this being the "CORE" of the study method. Notice that I say to even review the flash cards on your OFF DAY!! The problem people have on the tests is two things: (1) they can't "remember" how to do something, because they didn't practice it enough times and/or frequently enough and (2) they can't "figure out" how to do something, because they don't understand the theory behind it. Know that you WILL likely get a question on the test, that relies on you to figure out something that you didn't see in your practice questions. If you prepared properly, you'll be able to "figure it out" as you KNOW the theory behind it works, and you KNOW the proper configurations to make it work.

Unless your mind is extremely developed, you learned basic things like the alphabet, or how to count, by REPEATING them, over and over, as frequently as possible. Probably the same way, you learned your multiplication tables. Now, you KNOW them. But, those things take work (unless, as I previously disclaimed, you just have a super memory like that).

Most of us don't have super memories like that, but we can still "train" our brain to remember things, using repetition.

Im really wanting to try your method sounds like it could work for me.

Proscrastination is the mother of .... well, nothing. Get to it!

As i happens just about finished a read of the book so my next step would be lab and review so could starrt the above?

I would recommend taking the time to make flash cards for everything. Then, your daily review beyond that point would just be flash cards and your labs. Trying to set it up so you can get through your entire lab schedule in as few days as possible, then repeat it. Also, throw in reviewing the questions every so often, to see how you do on them.

How many hours a day were you putting in?

For CCNA, at least X hours per day, to get started up on it. (Reading and making the flash cards, the truly grinding part of it.)
After I had made all the flash cards, then you can really do all your labs and study your flash cards and review pretty quickly., so it can be less than X hours, and sometimes Y hours per day, once you've got the slow parts out of the way. At first, the labs will be slower, but they get quicker, as you get more familiar with them. (Sorry for leaving the numbers out, but it's subjective how long it takes a person to read something or cover material. I'll just say 2-4 hours on workdays, and 4-8 hours on non work-days.)

and how long it take you to pass?

I passed the CCNA within a month or so of study. I want to say 100+ hours. But, with interest in full disclosure, I first got CCNA back in 2006, and let it expire, due to not really using the skills in day-to-day work. The very first time I took it, I read up on it for a solid month, then spent close to 100 hours labbing and review within a two week period (I wasn't working at the time, recently released from the military). This last time I took it, I think the test was more difficult, but even having passed it before, I still spent between 100-200 hours studying on it, for the retake.

It's the repetition that you have to get in. Some people can get their repetition in sooner, others, it takes more time. You see the problem of forgetting the beginning, before you get to the end, all the time. Wendell Odom (4-digit CCIE) talks about this problem at Network World. INE (well known CCIE training vendor) talks about this problem. The key is to get in spaced repetition, and repeat the things you did earlier, so you don't forget them, by the time you get to the end. There are specific memory techniques/tables that you can do for this, but the optimal ratio is individually found. If you truly want to discover this optimal ratio, there are free products out there like mnemosyne that can help do this for you.

Me, myself, I just try to repeat it as often as possible as soon as possible. If you can get through your labs, reviews and flash cards several consecutive times without error, then you know you're ready for the test. If you cannot, then you know you're not ready. If you see something on a practice test that you don't now at all, then stop right now and review the topic, and make flash cards for it. (In my CCNA thread, I had question about media lengths that I got wrong. You can be sure that I was not going to let one of those "gimme" type questions trip me up on the exam.) The repetition is like exercise. Everyone knows the Cisco tests are a battle against reasoning, and time. Your brain is a muscle, so you have to exercise it to prepare for the tests. That's the best way I can describe it. It's training your brain.

thanks

Kevin

You're welcome.

alxx

what flash card apps are you guys using ?

I use mental case and ankimobile on ipad/iphone and mac, anki (and mnemosyne) on windows and linux

Usually make flash cards on flashcardexchange.com

For home I use printed flash cards (from pdfs from flashcard exchange)

anki has some free cards from Todd Lamle and others for download(shared desks)
but I prefer to make my own as thats part of learning the material

anki Anki - friendly, intelligent flashcards
mnemosyne Mnemosyne Software | The Mnemosyne Project

mental case (mac and ios) Mental Case App: Flashcards for Mac, iPad and iPhone

won't be doing more than a few hours study today and tomorrow - days off and I need to have 3 or 4 practise sessions both days as we're got a paid gig friday night (play tenor sax in a jazz band).Had a 3 hour rehearsal last night.
Had a couple of weeks not playing due thesis and exams and little off in timing on a couple of songs.
currently listening to sookie sookie by Grant Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0N_hd0drIc

stlsmoore

I def. just added Mnemosyne's to the mix with my study material. It requires some time to setup but I think it's going to be worth it. I plan on making a flash card category for every Chapter as I finish them based on the written notes I take and review questions in the book.

mella060

JockVSJock wrote: »

With the CCNA, I'm trying to do it all at once.

Probably not the best idea. There is a lot of information to absorb in the CCNA these days. Best way to learn is to break out down into chunks. Focus on one topic/subject at a time. Don't move on to the next topic until you have a really good grasp of the current one. If that means re-reading the chapter a few times, then so be it but don't try to rush through it. Take your time with it. Let it sink in. Watch CBT videos on the topic to help break up the theory.

DONT RUSH. I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make is that they think they have to learn it all by a certain time and kind of rush through all the material without learning it properly.

DO LOTS OF HANDS ON. Either with packet tracer, GNS or whatever. The more hands-on you do, the easier it all becomes. It would be very hard to pass the exams without doing a lot of basic configs and setting up basic networks.

How confident are you with subnetting ? Just wondering as i have noticed a number of threads started by you in relation to subnetting. Subnetting is probably the most important skill you need to master for the CCENT/CCNA. You really need to know it INSIDE OUT. IE be able to do it in your head and answer questions in under 20-30 seconds. If you can't do that, then you are going to have a very hard time passing the CCENT/CCNA exams.

I get the impression that you haven't quite mastered subnetting yet. My advice (if you haven't properly mastered it) would be to forget about everything else and just focus on that for the time being. There is no use trying to answer exam questions and configure networks if you don't know it inside out.

I used the method in Todd Lammles CCNA book and did all the exercises again and again until it 'clicked'. Took me around 3 weeks on subnetting alone but it was worth it !!

Key when learning subnetting is to WRITE IT ALL DOWN ON PAPER. EVERYTHING !! That way it sticks in your brain.

JockVSJock

instant000 wrote: »

If you look at my post, flash cards are the MEAT of the study. You do them EVERY day. They're your core, like abs. You CAN'T replace them!

Posting your study method has been really insightful for me.

I also agree with you on the flashcards. I used these on A+/Network+/Linux+ and they really helped me. An issue I'm having for the CCNA are commands. I posted earlier I wish there were like a man page for the commands because I've created flash cards for the CLI, however I feel I don't have enough information to put on some of the cards. An example of a command is show ip route. I know this shows the routing table, however would like to get a bit more info to help make things more solid.

I'm gonna have to read this thread a few more times to really digest what your saying.

thanks

Turgon

JockVSJock wrote: »

Posting your study method has been really insightful for me.

I also agree with you on the flashcards. I used these on A+/Network+/Linux+ and they really helped me. An issue I'm having for the CCNA are commands. I posted earlier I wish there were like a man page for the commands because I've created flash cards for the CLI, however I feel I don't have enough information to put on some of the cards. An example of a command is show ip route. I know this shows the routing table, however would like to get a bit more info to help make things more solid.

I'm gonna have to read this thread a few more times to really digest what your saying.

thanks

You need more hands on. The best way to learn commands is to key them in. Its rather like learning to play piano, where eventually the hands instinctively know what to type. This is one of the reasons why historically so many people with a programming background moved into networking in the early days. They were used to coding and constructs and did not find adjustment to command line particularly difficult.

Get yourself a couple of routers with a connection between them and start hammering out configurations and verification commands. You do not learn to fly a plane from a manual..you need flying time.

kevin31

instant000 wrote: »

You're welcome.



If you look at my post, flash cards are the MEAT of the study. You do them EVERY day. They're your core, like abs. You CAN'T replace them!



By self-testing, I'm referring to going over the review questions or whatever comes with your book. I'm not referring to going out and buying practice tests. Sorry for not being more clear. You know you're good when you understand all of the answer choices, and why each of them does or does not apply to the questions asked. Like I say, I prefer open-ended questions, where you're not given an answer choice, and you just have to fill in the blank. When you're on the job, you don't get multiple-choice questions!



NO. See what I posted earlier, about this being the "CORE" of the study method. Notice that I say to even review the flash cards on your OFF DAY!! The problem people have on the tests is two things: (1) they can't "remember" how to do something, because they didn't practice it enough times and/or frequently enough and (2) they can't "figure out" how to do something, because they don't understand the theory behind it. Know that you WILL likely get a question on the test, that relies on you to figure out something that you didn't see in your practice questions. If you prepared properly, you'll be able to "figure it out" as you KNOW the theory behind it works, and you KNOW the proper configurations to make it work.

Unless your mind is extremely developed, you learned basic things like the alphabet, or how to count, by REPEATING them, over and over, as frequently as possible. Probably the same way, you learned your multiplication tables. Now, you KNOW them. But, those things take work (unless, as I previously disclaimed, you just have a super memory like that).

Most of us don't have super memories like that, but we can still "train" our brain to remember things, using repetition.



Proscrastination is the mother of .... well, nothing. Get to it!



I would recommend taking the time to make flash cards for everything. Then, your daily review beyond that point would just be flash cards and your labs. Trying to set it up so you can get through your entire lab schedule in as few days as possible, then repeat it. Also, throw in reviewing the questions every so often, to see how you do on them.



For CCNA, at least X hours per day, to get started up on it. (Reading and making the flash cards, the truly grinding part of it.)
After I had made all the flash cards, then you can really do all your labs and study your flash cards and review pretty quickly., so it can be less than X hours, and sometimes Y hours per day, once you've got the slow parts out of the way. At first, the labs will be slower, but they get quicker, as you get more familiar with them. (Sorry for leaving the numbers out, but it's subjective how long it takes a person to read something or cover material. I'll just say 2-4 hours on workdays, and 4-8 hours on non work-days.)



I passed the CCNA within a month or so of study. I want to say 100+ hours. But, with interest in full disclosure, I first got CCNA back in 2006, and let it expire, due to not really using the skills in day-to-day work. The very first time I took it, I read up on it for a solid month, then spent close to 100 hours labbing and review within a two week period (I wasn't working at the time, recently released from the military). This last time I took it, I think the test was more difficult, but even having passed it before, I still spent between 100-200 hours studying on it, for the retake.

It's the repetition that you have to get in. Some people can get their repetition in sooner, others, it takes more time. You see the problem of forgetting the beginning, before you get to the end, all the time. Wendell Odom (4-digit CCIE) talks about this problem at Network World. INE (well known CCIE training vendor) talks about this problem. The key is to get in spaced repetition, and repeat the things you did earlier, so you don't forget them, by the time you get to the end. There are specific memory techniques/tables that you can do for this, but the optimal ratio is individually found. If you truly want to discover this optimal ratio, there are free products out there like mnemosyne that can help do this for you.

Me, myself, I just try to repeat it as often as possible as soon as possible. If you can get through your labs, reviews and flash cards several consecutive times without error, then you know you're ready for the test. If you cannot, then you know you're not ready. If you see something on a practice test that you don't now at all, then stop right now and review the topic, and make flash cards for it. (In my CCNA thread, I had question about media lengths that I got wrong. You can be sure that I was not going to let one of those "gimme" type questions trip me up on the exam.) The repetition is like exercise. Everyone knows the Cisco tests are a battle against reasoning, and time. Your brain is a muscle, so you have to exercise it to prepare for the tests. That's the best way I can describe it. It's training your brain.



You're welcome.

Hi

So I understand your supposed to read them answer then turn it over see if it was right? If not review that area? Or is it more like a memory jogger reading the cards and then moving on?

Yeah my book has open ended questions at the end of each chapter so I will start working on them also as a review.

Proscrastination seems to be a big issue for me!

Thanks again for your detailed write up. Helped me alot and JockVsJock to by the comments. Hour wise need to start putting in the time and working through the schedule you posted. One question I did have you did mention subnetting practice or is this something you were doing daily any how?

I take you have a similar plan for your CCNP Voice studies?

Thanks

Kevin

kevin31

alxx wrote: »

what flash card apps are you guys using ?

I use mental case and ankimobile on ipad/iphone and mac, anki (and mnemosyne) on windows and linux

Usually make flash cards on flashcardexchange.com

For home I use printed flash cards (from pdfs from flashcard exchange)

anki has some free cards from Todd Lamle and others for download(shared desks)
but I prefer to make my own as thats part of learning the material

anki Anki - friendly, intelligent flashcards
mnemosyne Mnemosyne Software | The Mnemosyne Project

mental case (mac and ios) Mental Case App: Flashcards for Mac, iPad and iPhone

won't be doing more than a few hours study today and tomorrow - days off and I need to have 3 or 4 practise sessions both days as we're got a paid gig friday night (play tenor sax in a jazz band).Had a 3 hour rehearsal last night.
Had a couple of weeks not playing due thesis and exams and little off in timing on a couple of songs.
currently listening to sookie sookie by Grant Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0N_hd0drIc

Thanks for the useful links. I have got Mentalcase on my iphone as I have the Ipad also. Been over to Flashcard Excahnge and registered there see there are loads and loads for CCNA. Any recomemnd ones or is making your own the best way forward?

cheers

kev

kevin31

JockVSJock wrote: »

Posting your study method has been really insightful for me.

I also agree with you on the flashcards. I used these on A+/Network+/Linux+ and they really helped me. An issue I'm having for the CCNA are commands. I posted earlier I wish there were like a man page for the commands because I've created flash cards for the CLI, however I feel I don't have enough information to put on some of the cards. An example of a command is show ip route. I know this shows the routing table, however would like to get a bit more info to help make things more solid.

I'm gonna have to read this thread a few more times to really digest what your saying.

thanks

Sorry barged in on your post but has been a real help to me to. Thank you for sharing your experinces!

Kev